WHERE'D EVERYONE FREAK'N GO !?!?

[Iakun]

No need to exclude me. Physicality is not enough for me. Just like your typical girl I need the emotionality in there. Gimme the looooooooove! xd

Actually Dude I don't believe physical attraction is only about appearance. Plenty of people have said things like "omg I want his babies" over factors that aren't about appearance. Perhaps he's a musician and that really gets your bones going, or his certain mindset/beliefs totally jive with yours and that gets you going too.

When I was questioning Purple about it I was just wanting to clear up what she meant, not so much challenge her. lol

edit: Wait, maybe the physical attraction isn't only about appearance for me because I'm a femmey gay guy. lol...  

[xwhateverxdudex]

WAY TOO complicated in my opinion.
People should just have fun and just move on.
(unless they want to stay together)
Too much importance is put on marrage these days.

The whole "till death do us part" is TOO long term.
No one knows how they're going to feel about the other person after 10 or 20 years.
(or even 5 for that matter) It's individual!
And personal happiness matters most, not what's written on a stupid piece of paper.
(should tell the government to butt out on alot of things, but this especially - oh, and tell religion to butt out too)

Like I said ["PHYSICAL" ATTRACTION] - There's a reason the word "physical" is in the title.
Anything else is just mental attraction ^.^

And as for girls requiring more emotional attraction then guys?
(and I'm speaking generally here - so I know there are exceptions)
I don't think that's fair. *silly pout*
Guys have to go through alot of crap just to get a girls attention.
It's like, for christ sake, this girl better be worth all this trouble.

And why is it that if a guy dumps a girl, he's being a jerk,
but if a girl dumps a guy, he's just not giving her what she needs.
Can't it be that she just didn't give him what he needs?
Why is it always the guys fault in every relation ship?

It's like, when the 2 have a fight, it's always the guy that has to appologize.
Even if it's the girls fault, the guy is the one that always gets the short end of the stick.
Even if it becomes clear later that she's the one at fault, it's still his fault.
How is that right.

Guys are told even by other guys... "if there's a fight, always appologize, even if it's not your fault" - No wonder most guys never mean what they say to any girl. We're taught to do whatever just to pacify the girl.

Girls seem to need more emotional support. (minus exceptions)
That's alot of excess pressure that guys get dumped on them.

And yes, I realize that this is a very close-minded view of relationships.
Every relationship is a give and take agreement.
Most guys just prefer their "take" to be in the form of physical pleasure.
Nothing wrong with that.
Just never seems to equal that emotional baggage they have to support.
(never heard a guy say that the girl physically wore him out)  

[purpleravenhawk]

Dude, the physical self and the mental self are directly connected. It's not an either-or choice. If a guy has a mental quality that turns a girl off, it won't matter how hot he is.

"Worth all this trouble"? We're talking about human beings here. If you're not interested in a serious relationship, then obviously it's not going to be "worth it." But if all you want is the sex, you need to say that from the start. There are enough girls that are into that; you don't need to be wooing the girls who want more.

So if you think it's not fair that girls require more emotional attraction, do you admit it's not fair that all guys care about is physical appearance?

When any relationship ends, everybody has their own story about whose fault it is. That's not a girl thing. In 80-90% of all endings, both people are at fault to some extent. And they're both gonna blame the other one.

Maybe girls insist on apologies because guys tend to act like everything is the girl's fault, even when it's not. You may not ask for the apology, but you sure know how to make a girl feel like she's ******** up your life for you.

Pacification does not work. Cuz she will find out that you didn't mean it, and that'll make everything worse. You want to fix something? Be honest and pay attention. Girls just want to be treated like they're important and "worth the trouble." Far as I can tell, most guys never mean what they say because they don't care and all they want is to get into the girl's pants. Which, as I said, is unnecessary since there are plenty of girls who are looking for sex too.

You want to talk about pressure; how about the pressure for girls who are expected to be physically beautiful all the time or their guy treats them like dirt? Some girls are certainly more emotionally needy, but others just want some attention that doesn't necessarily lead to sex.

The "emotional baggage" doesn't seem to be equal to the pressure guys put on girls, either. So maybe it's all even?

I'm curious where you get your info, tho. You don't know that many people. confused  

[Iakun]

xwhateverxdudex

WAY TOO complicated in my opinion.
People should just have fun and just move on.
(unless they want to stay together)
Too much importance is put on marrage these days.

The whole "till death do us part" is TOO long term.
No one knows how they're going to feel about the other person after 10 or 20 years.
(or even 5 for that matter) It's individual!
And personal happiness matters most, not what's written on a stupid piece of paper.
(should tell the government to butt out on alot of things, but this especially - oh, and tell religion to butt out too)

Purple pretty much says most of what I would say but I had to single this out because it's important to me. It pisses me off the s**t treatment that marriage gets from people who just don't get it at all. Marriage is cheapened by thoughts like this that are too individualistic. If you're going to get married to someone you're making a lifetime commitment, otherwise it's no more different than saying "well I love you so I THINK we'll be together for a little while."

That's not what people are thinking when they go into marriage. They love each other and they are both making the choice to make that permanent, life time commitment. They believe they will love each other till they die and they will work on their relationship to maintain that love and commitment.

Marriages, and a lot of relationships in general don't work out because people only think of themselves in this highly individualistic society. Maybe we should think a little bit more about what others are feeling. Many times, other things and people must come before you, ie. your children.

Sorry if I came off really aggressive it just bothers me how so many straight people trash marriage. I'm lucky I'm Canadian; I could marry another man if I wanted. But the majority of American gays and lesbians who take the idea of marriage seriously can't even do that.  

[xwhateverxdudex]

Purple:

*sigh* point taken.
But the hard part is finding a girl that's open to just having sex.
I mean, how do you even ask that question without getting an unfairly judgemental kick to the nuts every time you ask the wrong girl.
It's not easy to tell the difference between the girls just from a look.

Yes, I'll agree to that.
It isn't fair that guys put so much pressure on appearance that girls practically go crazy just trying to look hot. (but I'm still not changing my definition of hot) *nods*

*sigh* True and true.
I guess those 2 are just more things that depends on the person.

What happened to the concept of "Girls don't want to hear the truth, they just want to be told they're right all the time" - And as for that last part, it links to my first paragraph.

Attention that doesn't lead to sex?
Wouldn't that be classified as just friendship?

LOL
Point made smile

Where do you think I get my info, from talking to people online that have had these experiences, Both women AND men rant online when they're upset about something.
Though it IS true that the places I hang out don't have that many women, so even I know that I'm only getting one half of any story because of it.





Iakun:
Actually that didn't sound aggressive at all. You made a very sound statement that frankly I can't argue with.
You're right, alot of people trash the concept of marrage, but it's because of what it has become.
Alot of people put ALOT of pressure on the idea of not having any sex at all until after marrage. So what do people do? They get married the second they can just to have sex.
That's not what marrage is suppose to be about, and THAT is the type of marrage that I was trashing.
I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I hear about these OVERLY sudden marrages all the time, and after so much, I forget that there are ACTUALLY people out there that still hold the more romantic side of the concept.  

[purpleravenhawk]

I guess you're right, Iakun. I hold a rather dim view of marriage myself because I don't know many people who got married because they really loved each other. It's not something that everyone puts a lot of thought into these days. But if more people thought about it the way you do, the world would be a happier place.

Dude: What makes you think the reaction would be a kick to the nuts? confused You seem a little obsessed with that. Most girls would walk away and/or slap you in the face.

I've found that most guys just want to be told they're right all the time. Even when they're about to do something monumentally stupid. Guys are the kings of ignoring the truth.

Friendship is very important to a long-term intimate relationship. You have to be able to talk and do stuff together that doesn't have anything to do with sex. Otherwise, it won't last. You can't just have sex all the time, or ignore each other all the times that you're not having sex. rolleyes

The internet tends to get the worst of people's emotions and rants. Some of them don't even mean what they say, and some of them will act totally different in real life. You can sometimes tell when people are just throwing a tantrum, but not always. The internet is where people go to do and say things they wouldn't do or say IRL. I always stop and think "do I mean this?" before I post something, but I'm unusual. And you can usually tell when I'm being sarcastic or exaggerating.  

[Iakun]

A lot of people say marriage is what we make of it. Well, if we trash it and don't take it seriously, we were the ones that degraded it to begin with so it's our choice to take it seriously again or not. But clearly we don't and/or won't considering how we even have wedding drive-thru's in Vegas.

As for the sex thing, well, you have to be upfront with what you want. Couples never seem to discuss the really important things; you need to be honest about your needs and expectations of your relationship with the person you're with. If you just want to enjoy your time with them and have a little sex here and there, say it. EARLIER THAN LATER. lol

What depresses me is that everyone these days starts with casual dating when they meet someone which almost always involves sex within the first week or 2 of getting to know each other. God, that is just way too soon to be naked and intimate with another human being to me. Apparently that makes me a prude. I think people are too quick to jump into bed. But then again, I've always valued something more serious than just a casual relationship.

@Purple specifically: I think the problem is a lot of people don't have very involved, wise parents to really tell them what relationships are about so everyone ends up being relationship dysfunctional. lol

I'm mostly myself online. The one thing that I wish I could easily change is how ranty I can get.  

[purpleravenhawk]

I think a lot of things would be better if people had involved, wise parents who taught them stuff. My mom made the effort, even if she tended to overreact about stuff. Maybe that's why I'm more of a thinker. surprised I don't know what happened to dude. stare blaugh

Nothing wrong with a little ranting sometimes, tho. It helps you vent and put things in perspective. As long as you're not just being angry and saying the same things over and over to fuel your own anger. *glares at tv*

But you're right. Marriage, like anything, is what you make of it. Problem is, it takes two people to make it. And people have trouble working together. It's work, lol.

Vegas drive-thru weddings are my response to the anti-gay-marriage people. "So you think gay marriage degrades marriage? Have you been to Vegas?" xd

I don't think there's anything wrong with sex early on in the relationship as long as both parties are clear about what they want and where they want to end up. If they're both looking for something serious and long-term, tho, I would definitely recommend holding off on the bed-bouncing until a more intimate connection has been fostered. 3nodding  

[Iakun]

I still feel iffy about sex early on, but I think more specifically what irks me is the expectation that has now developed for sex to happen early on. Almost everyone I've witnessed in these discussions online pretty much says if they had to wait more than a month to have sex with someone then they'll end the relationship.

Isn't it bad enough that we're pressured to look perfect but now we have the expectation to be super intimate before we're even ready? I'm already screwed for relationships then lol  

[purpleravenhawk]

I've noticed that, too. That's one reason why I started my little survey that I'm working on. I want to know how people really feel and how much of it is hype and pressure created by media, entertainment, and gossip. 3nodding  

[xwhateverxdudex]

Purple:
If I seem obsessed with it, it's because I'm always hearing horror stories about girls that over-react like that to every little thing a guy does.

I don't like pain at all.
And I don't have the money for a surgery to fix the damage that being hit REALLY hard there could do (let alone the fact that I'd rather just be shot in the head for an insta-kill then live through that amount of intense pain). So forgive me for being a little paranoid, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. And if assuming all women over-reacts like that, helps me stay away from them and be safe... So be it!

I guess everyone likes to be right.
But I've never heard a girl say... "just tell him that he's right, even when he's not"

That's true.
My idea of a great relationship is being able to hang out and do stuff together, like watching anime, and playing video games. Sex would be like the icing on the cake. But finding a girl as open about it as I am would be hard. Especially if you're trying to avoid those that over-react to everything. (also finding one that wouldn't demand I give up hentai would be important too) ^.^

Yes, the net is mostly over-reactions.
But horror stories are still horror stories.
And you are indeed unusual - LOL


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Iakun:
"wedding drive-thru's"? That's just wrong on SOO many levels >_>
"you need to be honest about your needs and expectations of your relationship with the person you're with" - "EARLIER THAN LATER" Sadly it's like the whole world is stupid about these things. (minus exceptions of course)

LOL - what's wrong with casual sex? ^.^

"relationship dysfunctional" - I like that term ^.^

You? Ranty? Nah ^.^

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"bed-bouncing" ?
That's one I've never heard before o.o`

There are lots of things expected of people that aren't fair.
But unfortunately it's one of those things that get passed from one generation to the next.

As for "what happened to me" ?
It's clear. I hate being told what to do.
So obviously I did the exact opposite of what I was told ^.^
Remeber, you were the "good kid" and I was the "squeeky wheel" that got alot (though not everything) he asked for just to shut him up.  

[purpleravenhawk]

Do you know how hard a hit that would have to be, dude? I mean, seriously, how many people could do that without a weapon or training? Basically, you just admitted to being afraid of women. Women have to be afraid to walk outside at night by themselves, but you won't catch me being all paranoid and treating all men like potential rapists. It's pointless to be afraid of everything that could hurt you, because as squishy humans, everything can hurt us.

I've heard lots of girls say that ("just tell him that he's right, even if he's not"). You have to listen in on girl convos to hear it, but they say it a lot, trust me. I'm always the only voice in the conversation saying "shouldn't you be honest?" No matter whether it's boys or girls.

The way you talk, anyone would think sex was the only thing you cared about when it comes to girls. But there are tons of girls who love anime and video games (and actually play video games). As for the overreacting thing, tho, that's a staple of anime-lovers' behavior. Look in the mirror sometime, and you'll see what I mean. I don't think it would be that hard to find a girl who's lenient about hentai and likes sex, but you realize that in order to get all these things, you'll probably have to lower your standards a bit in the "looks" dept. Anime nerds of both genders aren't known for having supermodel beauty.

Horror stories will always be scary, but it doesn't mean you should be scared of them. It's like those child kidnapping stories on the news. Parents freak out about them because they get so much coverage, but they don't happen nearly as often as you'd think. You're more likely to get in a car wreck (again). You're more likely to have a tornado pick up your house. If you spend all your time afraid of something that will probably never happen, you won't live life to the fullest or react to anything normally.

"Remember, you were the "good kid" and I was the "squeaky wheel" that got a lot (though not everything) he asked for just to shut him up." -- See? Women do pacify men. 3nodding I don't think you have any idea just how much they do. I've spent a lot of time talking to wives and girlfriends. Trust me, it's A LOT.  

[Iakun]

Men have to give in to a lot of what women want though. I die a little inside whenever I watch those wedding shows on tv. Every bride is so a**l about her wedding, a total bridezilla. Even if the guy is of the variety to be interested in planning, she lets him have no say in the wedding preparations.

That's only one example of how men often have no say in a lot of stuff.

"As for "what happened to me" ?
It's clear. I hate being told what to do.
So obviously I did the exact opposite of what I was told ^.^
Remeber, you were the "good kid" and I was the "squeeky wheel" that got alot (though not everything) he asked for just to shut him up."

Typical adolescent behavior. lol Hmm me and my sister... I'm the one that got everything I wanted and she always had to work with no help for what she wanted. Part of why my sister is so bitter towards me now.  

[xwhateverxdudex]

Purple:
It may have to be extremely hard to "reqire" a hospital visit,
But a knee would make it "FEEL" like one is neccessary whether it is or not.
Considdering the sensitivity of that spot, I'd say all guys have the right to be suspicious of anyone they don't know, male or female. It's just that there are more females that would do that, then males. So yes, I'm going to assume ALL women are violent over-reactionary attackers if it keeps me at what "I" perceive to be a safe distance. My personally physical health is more important to me then anything else. So I will act accordingly. "Guilty until proven innocent" (you may think I'm over-reacting, but I think you are too - the way you word it, you sound like you think all guys are rapists, what with the whole... "afraid to walk outside at night by themselves" statement)

I can't listen in on conversations, when I don't know anyone.

*sigh* Yeah, I know... "always 2 sides to every coin"
(and yes I do know that anime and gaming girls exist)
But if you follow the number of hentai fans?... there aren't nearly enough girls that are open about liking it.
WHY? (it's not like any girl would lower her standards, girls are ALWAYS trying to "change him" )

Let's just say that it's the description of the pain that makes them "horror stories" more then anything else. That and the fact you can't tell who has a tendency to over-react just from looking at them.

I'll have to take your work on that one.
But I'm not sure that the "mother - son" roll, is an accurate thing to use as a sound base.
Mothers pacify the whole house, whether son, husband, or daughter.

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Iakun:
HAH!!! So it wasn't just me!
Yeah, I always got the feeling that purple hated me greatly.
Part was because I was never afraid to ask for something I wanted, the other was because of my good luck.

Bridezilla, LOL  

[purpleravenhawk]

Okay, the wedding thing is an odd sort of standout. I honestly don't know what happens to some women when they get married. But again, it's not all women. I could name two women I personally know who had extremely simple weddings and were very relaxed about suggestions.

I know there are things that men don't get a say in. I'm just saying that women pacify men a lot too. At least, an equal amount.

Dude: The way I've had it described to me (by a man), it's more of a sick pain than a feeling that you need surgery. We are talking about the same thing, right? But why would you assume that all women are going to kick you in the nuts? That's just as bad as assuming all men are rapists. I think there must be more than internet horror stories at work in your brain, here. Don't tell me this is another one of your "she's saying one thing, so I'm gonna say the opposite" reactions. Cuz this conversation is so over if that's the case.

I didn't say I was afraid to walk outside at night by myself. But a lot of women I know are. Yes, I'm a bit nervous about it (more because of potential muggings than anything else), but I refuse to let such paranoid, socially-reinforced feelings rule my life. You might think about that yourself. And yes, it may be an overreaction, but women have had this image of themselves and the world drilled into their heads from the age of 3, that strange men are bad and we are weak, helpless kittens. Stupid society. scream

When it comes to physical appearance standards, EVERYONE has to lower theirs. Everyone.

Well, I can tell who overreacts by looking at them. ninja

Not all mothers pacify the whole house. Just ours. And others of her kind. But it's still a valid example. Everyone is somebody's daughter or son, and most people are somebody's mother, wife, husband, or father. Getting married doesn't make a woman pacify her man more (and remember, all wives were once girlfriends). Sometimes, it means she pacifies him less. And most mothers quit coddling their kids around 18-20. Sometimes earlier.

In psychological terms, the human mind categorizes people into three groups: family, potential mates, and enemies. As much as we've changed, we still do this subconsciously. There's less in the Enemy group because today's society requires that people attack each other with spears much less than we used to. So even if you don't consciously recognize an attachment to someone, your subconscious has already slotted them into the Family or Mate category (or Enemy if you REALLY don't hit it off). Some people are special and can slip in and out of both groups, depending on where you are in life. But what this means is that for anyone that a woman has spent enough time with to get to know, she's put him in a familiar category. Subconsciously, all men are any woman's husband, son, father, brother, etc. It's a rare woman who puts such emphasis on familial attachments as our mother has. What I'm trying to say is that if a modern woman pacifies her household, she'll likely do the same for people outside her household.

On a personal note, I wish you'd get over your issues with women. Mom told me you talk like you hate or despise all women, and your internet musings do not convince me otherwise. As your sister, it makes me sad and uncomfortable to think that you hate me (I'm a woman, remember?). It also makes me wonder why you're still here. I mean, what is this, I tell you about the negative effects of extreme hentai on the viewer's psyche, and you start exhibiting the symptoms? Is that coincidence? Another of your stupid opposite games? What?