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| What is Taiwan? |
| Seperate Country |
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44% |
[ 17 ] |
| Chinese Rogue Province |
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55% |
[ 21 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:15 am
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:54 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:09 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:33 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:39 pm
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tamcharles yalie5 okay back to the topic of taiwan. i just asked my dad and he said that taiwan is not a seperate country. even though i think they should be. but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. so the protesting shoudl stop. Whether Taiwan is or is not a country is subjective. People have their "opinions" and they should be regarded as such. I should also point out that just because an opinion has a majority does not mean it's right -- after all didn't everyone once believe the Earth to be flat? A point to ponder. wink
yes people do have their opinions. so what is fact? is it that whether taiwan is a seprate country or not just an opinion and that the actual fact has been mixed so throughly with the opinions that we can no longer point it out? and i agree that the opinion of the majority does not make it right. and no. not everyone beleived the earth was flat. the greeks didn't. btw... i think wiim lied.... are you sure you're not over 26? wink |
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:20 am
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yalie5 tamcharles yalie5 okay back to the topic of taiwan. i just asked my dad and he said that taiwan is not a seperate country. even though i think they should be. but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. so the protesting shoudl stop. Whether Taiwan is or is not a country is subjective. People have their "opinions" and they should be regarded as such. I should also point out that just because an opinion has a majority does not mean it's right -- after all didn't everyone once believe the Earth to be flat? A point to ponder. wink yes people do have their opinions. so what is fact? is it that whether taiwan is a seprate country or not just an opinion and that the actual fact has been mixed so throughly with the opinions that we can no longer point it out? and i agree that the opinion of the majority does not make it right. and no. not everyone beleived the earth was flat. the greeks didn't. btw... i think wiim lied.... are you sure you're not over 26? wink
But all joking aside, before we ask the question "if Taiwan is or is not" let's ask what makes a "country?"
Wikipedia defines a country as "a land, or a state, is a geographical area that connotes an independent political entity, with its own government, administration, laws, often a constitution, police, military, tax rules, and population."
Taiwan would fit all that.
Wikipedia also suggests that a country must be "recognized internationally", of which it is by the United Nations among the 192 other nations.
The last point would be that "all internationally recognized states follow to some degree international standards in terms of the creation of official national symbols such as flags, and political rights such as citizenship."
Taiwan meets all those requirements.
But my cardinal flaw in this arguement is that I'm drawing from only one source. Please feel free to criticize it, discuss it and offer counter-points. I need to step out but I'll comment again when I'm back. |
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:49 am
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tamcharles yalie5 tamcharles yalie5 okay back to the topic of taiwan. i just asked my dad and he said that taiwan is not a seperate country. even though i think they should be. but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. so the protesting shoudl stop. Whether Taiwan is or is not a country is subjective. People have their "opinions" and they should be regarded as such. I should also point out that just because an opinion has a majority does not mean it's right -- after all didn't everyone once believe the Earth to be flat? A point to ponder. wink yes people do have their opinions. so what is fact? is it that whether taiwan is a seprate country or not just an opinion and that the actual fact has been mixed so throughly with the opinions that we can no longer point it out? and i agree that the opinion of the majority does not make it right. and no. not everyone beleived the earth was flat. the greeks didn't. btw... i think wiim lied.... are you sure you're not over 26? wink Wiim and I are both 21 actually. The Greeks were also polytheists look how that turned out? razz But all joking aside, before we ask the question "if Taiwan is or is not" let's ask what makes a "country?" Wikipedia defines a country as "a land, or a state, is a geographical area that connotes an independent political entity, with its own government, administration, laws, often a constitution, police, military, tax rules, and population." Taiwan would fit all that. Wikipedia also suggests that a country must be "recognized internationally", of which it is by the United Nations among the 192 other nations. The last point would be that "all internationally recognized states follow to some degree international standards in terms of the creation of official national symbols such as flags, and political rights such as citizenship." Taiwan meets all those requirements. But my cardinal flaw in this arguement is that I'm drawing from only one source. Please feel free to criticize it, discuss it and offer counter-points. I need to step out but I'll comment again when I'm back.
hehe^^ i knew how old you were... just felt like kidding around... and i'd say the greeks didn't turn out so bad xp
okay to the point.
Taiwan is not an independent sovereign nation so it does not issue citizenship or recognized passports by international law.
If this is allowed would not Shanghai or Xi'an or Nanjing also be allowed to "determine" their future? Never! The only concession the Chinese people would allow would be a referendum by the 1.3 billion plus the 20 million "Taiwanese" in determining the future of the island, an island which has belonged to the Chinese since time immemorial.
that was an opinion from some one on http://tm.wc.ask.com/r?t=c&s=a&id=30787&sv=z6f5372c5&uid=0FE28A0159CBE8324&sid=1C6A7E6AF8F86A624&p=/top&o=0&u=http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/20/content_384062.htm yes long. i would like to know does it offer any credibility and whether or not it's logical. also, it seems that taiwan is a formal country in every aspect except in recognition. it has it's own goevernment, flag symbol but i don't beleive they give out citizenship as it says above. Other countries such as the u.s. when signing document such as a treaty say it's unofficial. So Taiwan probably is a country, but not recognized as one. so feel free to point out any mistakes i may have made and these are other sources i pulled from.
Taiwan's government has announced plans to further liberalize the petroleum sector. Taiwan's legislature passed the Petroleum Administration Law in October 2001, which removed CPC's quasi-governmental policy implementation functions, and which will permit the eventual sale of a majority stake in the firm. In January 2003, the Taiwanese government announced that it would accelerate the timetable for the sale, with the process to be completed in 2004, but this timetable has slipped as well. When privatization eventually moves forward, foreign firms will be allowed to acquire stakes in CPC on an equal basis with domestic investors.
Despite the lack of formal ties between Taipei and Beijing, Taiwan and mainland China have developed a cooperative relationship in the field of energy.Taiwan's parliament, the major feature of which is expected to be the privatization of Taipower. Progress, though, has been slow, and the legislation is being reworked by the new Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) government, which was reelected in April 2004. Under the basic framework envisioned, Taipower would retain a monopoly on transmission and distribution networks, but Taipower's generation assets would be
from http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/taiwan.html (this one is mainly about the fuel in Taiwan)
There are a thousand ways of going wrong in discussing Taiwan, mostly because its political situation has created a through-the-looking-glass world of twisted semantics and dogmatic naming conventions. First, what is it? A sovereign nation by all appearances, but China (or "Communist China" in the cold-war parlance of Taiwan's government) sees it as simply a renegade province, to be returned in due time.
Taiwan attempts to get around this by distinguishing between the land and the government. So the Republic of China (ROC), the government that Mao drove off the mainland, is the rightful ruler of China, albeit in absentia save one bit: the main island of Taiwan and some tiny surrounding islands. Official guides to Taiwan still begin by describing with a straight face China's land mass, population and history, eventually arriving at the awkward admission that most of this is unfortunately not under ROC control at the moment.
Journalists usually avoid the obstacle course by referring to Taiwan as an "island" and moving on. But foreign governments are forced to tread a more delicate line. A State Department memo of "Dos and Don'ts" on Taiwan that was leaked to the Washington Post earlier this year gives an idea of how tough this can be. Since the American government does not recognise Taiwan as a country ("use `jurisdiction' or `area' "), its officials (called "consultants," since the staff of the pseudo-private American Institute in Taiwan that serves as the de-facto embassy must temporarily resign from the foreign service) refer to Taiwan's "authorities" rather than "government". When the American ambassador ("AIT director") meets his Taiwanese counterpart ("director of the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office") to sign a treaty ("AIT-TECRO agreement"), the meeting is "unofficial."
Even within Taiwan, words are loaded. Never mind that almost all of the country's inhabitants are ethnically Han Chinese, just like the people on the mainland: the word "Taiwanese" is used to describe someone whose family settled on the island before 1949 (often centuries before), a group that makes up about 85% of the population. "Mainlanders" are the minority who (or whose parents) arrived with the forces of Generalissimo Chiang. AIT staff have had to invent the painful neologism "Taiwans" to refer to all of them together.
Transcribing names of people and places is tricky too. Almost the whole world now accepts the mainland's "pinyin" method of romanising Chinese ("Mao Zedong" and "Beijing"), but Taiwan rejects it. It has not standardised on any of the half-dozen other methods either, though the Wade-Giles system ("Mao Tse-tung") is widely used, so visitors often find that business card addresses, signposts and maps are hard to reconcile. This survey will stick with whatever seems most appropriate in the context. Apologies for any offence. Source: The Economist, 7 Nov1998.
from http://www.uwec.edu/geography/Ivogeler/w111/country.htm
i wonder if that helps xd |
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:15 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:11 am
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wiim melonsoda i think Taiwanese people see themselves from being apart from China, and although we are all "Chinese", there is a difference in nationalism. Basically, Taiwanese have their own culture that is distinct and different than the mainland China's culture. I do believe they should be regarded as a seperate nation... And as for those of you who don't agree... don't flame me sweatdrop cuz... it's my opinion wink
don't be mean wiim 3nodding |
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:20 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:46 pm
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Yoshimitsu Kyoshi ~ HKC Guardian Angel ~ melonsoda i think Taiwanese people see themselves from being apart from China, and although we are all "Chinese", there is a difference in nationalism. Basically, Taiwanese have their own culture that is distinct and different than the mainland China's culture. I do believe they should be regarded as a seperate nation... And as for those of you who don't agree... don't flame me sweatdrop cuz... it's my opinion wink Nice topic. I do not agree that Taiwan is a separate nation! We hongkongers too do have our own culture and speech etc that is even more distinct and different than that of mainland china's or taiwan's. At least taiwanese speaks some kind of mandarin as well, but we hongkongers speak cantonese which is totally different. Taiwan was a portugese (Sp?) colony and hongkong was a british colony. Both are having a captalist economy while mainland china is having socialism. But Hong Kong (and Macau as well) is working perfectly fine under the One Country Two Systems principle! Because we are so unique, thats why we're called a Special Admisnistrative Region. Taiwan could follow our example. They can still retain their own way of life, etc. It is quite hurt to see we Chinese are all separated into different "countries" while we're all of the same origin and race. We may classify ourselves as "mainlanders", "hongkongers" or "taiwanese", but we are still Chinese afterall. Why cant we just unite together and use our efforts instead towards foreigners but not to start a long arguement among ourselves? I believe Chinese people are smart and hardworking (and we know how to make money! thats why we are discriminated against in some countries some time ago, if not now). If only we are willing to forget old hostility and cooperate with each other, we will beat the Americans in no time!! (sorrie this has nothing to do with Americans actually. its just used as an example coz USA is like the strongest country?) This too is just my own opinions though. It's not a flame. I agree, and I agree more on "WE WILL BEAT THE AMERICANS IN NO TIME!!!!"
lol. for all the american chinese i'm sorry about this but the americans claim to be the best. when they realli isn't. oh well enough on that,
i 2 agree with ~HKC Guardian Angel~ but then again there are sometimes when i think differently.
anyway.......i'm kinda on both sides for this arguement....
so anyone heard about China going against Japan? |
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:46 am
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:42 am
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:36 am
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yalie5 tamcharles @shinelover: Aww, c'mon. You ought to know that general sentiments from the American public are hardly representative of one sub-group (ABC's for instance). While you do have a point about there being both sides to the story, who's to say which one is right? Ah well, in regards to the Japan question, I read that Japan had made a formal apology regarding their past actions however now China is crying for them to "reflect on their past." Which to me sounds like whining... they got their apology so now they want to rub it in. Not the best way to win over the already alienated EU. @yalie5: If you have more to say, I'd be really interested in hearing it... even if it's off-topic. smile @sinfulanjel: Haha.. wiim's always mean. Hehehe... j/k razz okay then... i'm going to go with the subject of the japanese apology. Yeah it took them long enough to apologize but the chinese should accept it and every should be buddies. Unfortunately since we're not accepting the japanese might be offened and this would end in conflict. however i also think that if the japanese should apologize for what they did in world war II then america should apologize to the japanese about putting them in concentration camps and breaking up their lives. And I'm not sure what the EU is so please explain^^;; and there's always two sides of a story sure... what's a real b***h is telling the truth from the propaganda.
Truth from the propaganda... indeed.
Anyways, the EU is the European Union, they currently have some decade long embargo or sanction against China. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was setup as a result of the '89 Tiananmen Square incident. *I THINK* They were planning to release it (which would open up even more trade options for China and that means more $$$ for both sides. But the EU waited until China announced the whole "Unification by all means" law to announce that they were no longer considering the sanction because China is still showing themselves to be a threat of instability for their region.
Now with China becoming more powerful and getting what it wants (apology from Japan) and still asking for more, that's bound to be a bad in the eyes of the EU.
I know most of us don't really care what other nations may think, but the point here is about money. China's missing out on a huge chunk for several decades now. |
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