The What If Machine

[Zurgi]

Tirno

Hurin revealed only the region in which Gondolin lay, but Maeglin revealed the precise location.

Yeah...Hurin himself did not even know where Gondolin was located, but he went to the general area and wandered there, crying out. That alerted Morgoth to the region, and then Maeglin came along and ratted out the location of the hidden city and was promised to be given Idril as his present for ratting out Gondolin.  

[SYFFER]

Sounds reasonable 3nodding Poor Noldor, one way or another they're screwed xp

Any other "What if's"?  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Sounds reasonable 3nodding Poor Noldor, one way or another they're screwed xp

Yeah, that's what happens when you make stupid promises.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Sounds reasonable 3nodding Poor Noldor, one way or another they're screwed xp

Yeah, that's what happens when you make stupid promises.

Not to mention piss off a bunch of all powerful Gods sweatdrop  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Sounds reasonable 3nodding Poor Noldor, one way or another they're screwed xp

Yeah, that's what happens when you make stupid promises.

Not to mention piss off a bunch of all powerful Gods sweatdrop

Haha, or close enough to all-powerful. Hmm, we really need a 'What If'...  

[SYFFER]

What if Grima had not killed Saruman?  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

What if Grima had not killed Saruman?

Saruman wouldn't have fallen off Orthanc, then. Haha, just kidding. Well, if you mean that Grima wouldn't kill Saruman at that instant, then he probably would have just done it sometime later, after they wander after being cast of out the Shire. If you mean never kill him at all, I think Saruman would still wander around, and Grima be even more miserable (it didn't seem like Grima could ever just leave Saruman).  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

What if Grima had not killed Saruman?

Saruman wouldn't have fallen off Orthanc, then. Haha, just kidding. Well, if you mean that Grima wouldn't kill Saruman at that instant, then he probably would have just done it sometime later, after they wander after being cast of out the Shire. If you mean never kill him at all, I think Saruman would still wander around, and Grima be even more miserable (it didn't seem like Grima could ever just leave Saruman).

But wouldn't Saruman try to regain his power and possibly become the new Dark Lord? Sauron was pretty beat up at the end of the second age but he came back stronger than before.  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

What if Grima had not killed Saruman?

Saruman wouldn't have fallen off Orthanc, then. Haha, just kidding. Well, if you mean that Grima wouldn't kill Saruman at that instant, then he probably would have just done it sometime later, after they wander after being cast of out the Shire. If you mean never kill him at all, I think Saruman would still wander around, and Grima be even more miserable (it didn't seem like Grima could ever just leave Saruman).

But wouldn't Saruman try to regain his power and possibly become the new Dark Lord? Sauron was pretty beat up at the end of the second age but he came back stronger than before.

Well, Sauron had the Ring, and that's what allowed him to come back. I don't know if Saruman could regain what powers he had, though I find it unlikely after the breaking of his staff, which seems to point towards weakening of his powers. Gandalf said that even the power of his voice of waning.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

What if Grima had not killed Saruman?

Saruman wouldn't have fallen off Orthanc, then. Haha, just kidding. Well, if you mean that Grima wouldn't kill Saruman at that instant, then he probably would have just done it sometime later, after they wander after being cast of out the Shire. If you mean never kill him at all, I think Saruman would still wander around, and Grima be even more miserable (it didn't seem like Grima could ever just leave Saruman).

But wouldn't Saruman try to regain his power and possibly become the new Dark Lord? Sauron was pretty beat up at the end of the second age but he came back stronger than before.

Well, Sauron had the Ring, and that's what allowed him to come back. I don't know if Saruman could regain what powers he had, though I find it unlikely after the breaking of his staff, which seems to point towards weakening of his powers. Gandalf said that even the power of his voice of waning.

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?

Well, if I remember correctly, Saruman did make a Ring of his own (he claimed the title "Ring-maker"), but it didn't seem to hold that much power.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?

Well, if I remember correctly, Saruman did make a Ring of his own (he claimed the title "Ring-maker"), but it didn't seem to hold that much power.

That's true. Saruman may be a weaker Maia but I think that after the defeat of Sauron, another Maia if not Morgoth himself would return to fill the void. I think that Tolkien intended it to be that after the Elves left Middle-earth, Men dominated and eventually evolved into us. So perhaps there was a Sauron in every century or period. Hitler would possibly be the Sauron of the twentieth century. So if that's true, what Sauron will we have for this century?  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?

Well, if I remember correctly, Saruman did make a Ring of his own (he claimed the title "Ring-maker"), but it didn't seem to hold that much power.

That's true. Saruman may be a weaker Maia but I think that after the defeat of Sauron, another Maia if not Morgoth himself would return to fill the void. I think that Tolkien intended it to be that after the Elves left Middle-earth, Men dominated and eventually evolved into us. So perhaps there was a Sauron in every century or period. Hitler would possibly be the Sauron of the twentieth century. So if that's true, what Sauron will we have for this century?

Haha, I guess some might compare Hitler's skills as a speaker and the power of Saruman's voice. But as far as weaker Maiar coming after Sauron, it might be possible. But I think they were running out of evil, powerful Maiar; the balrogs were gone, the fiercer dragons, etc. Most of the evil after Sauron was probably Man vs. Man.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?

Well, if I remember correctly, Saruman did make a Ring of his own (he claimed the title "Ring-maker"), but it didn't seem to hold that much power.

That's true. Saruman may be a weaker Maia but I think that after the defeat of Sauron, another Maia if not Morgoth himself would return to fill the void. I think that Tolkien intended it to be that after the Elves left Middle-earth, Men dominated and eventually evolved into us. So perhaps there was a Sauron in every century or period. Hitler would possibly be the Sauron of the twentieth century. So if that's true, what Sauron will we have for this century?

Haha, I guess some might compare Hitler's skills as a speaker and the power of Saruman's voice. But as far as weaker Maiar coming after Sauron, it might be possible. But I think they were running out of evil, powerful Maiar; the balrogs were gone, the fiercer dragons, etc. Most of the evil after Sauron was probably Man vs. Man.

And that backs up my theory that Tolkien wanted the Men of Middle-earth to evolve into us. Our wars are just part of a chain extending since the first battle of Middle-earth  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Well that's true but what if Saruman had made another object (a ring of his own perhaps) to use to come back in case of his defeat?

Well, if I remember correctly, Saruman did make a Ring of his own (he claimed the title "Ring-maker"), but it didn't seem to hold that much power.

That's true. Saruman may be a weaker Maia but I think that after the defeat of Sauron, another Maia if not Morgoth himself would return to fill the void. I think that Tolkien intended it to be that after the Elves left Middle-earth, Men dominated and eventually evolved into us. So perhaps there was a Sauron in every century or period. Hitler would possibly be the Sauron of the twentieth century. So if that's true, what Sauron will we have for this century?

Haha, I guess some might compare Hitler's skills as a speaker and the power of Saruman's voice. But as far as weaker Maiar coming after Sauron, it might be possible. But I think they were running out of evil, powerful Maiar; the balrogs were gone, the fiercer dragons, etc. Most of the evil after Sauron was probably Man vs. Man.

And that backs up my theory that Tolkien wanted the Men of Middle-earth to evolve into us. Our wars are just part of a chain extending since the first battle of Middle-earth

If I remember correctly, the whole Middle-Earth legendarium was to be taken as a mythology concerning this very Earth.