Circumcision

[Baron von Turkeypants]

Soy un hombre muy honrado,
que me gusta lo mejor

Claiming that modern medicine condones circumcision is quite bold; do you have the figures to back up your implication that the majority of the medical community agrees with your view?

My evolution argument only shows there isn't enough of a reproductive advantage (if there is one) to merit change. While natural selection may not have had the chance to compare the two in humans, the fact that we aren't the only species with penises makes the probability of selection much more likely.

Las mujeres no me faltan,
ni el dinero ni el amor

 

[JakRandom]

AMA policy H-60.945.

Your evolution argument exists in a vacuum and is not supported by current scientific research.  

[Cirosan]

Jak, if you're so gung-ho about circumcision being a good thing, how do you feel regarding my earlier argument about forcing it on the child?  

[Baron von Turkeypants]

Soy un hombre muy honrado,
que me gusta lo mejor

Oh, the AMA, an organization of a little over 200000 physicians. Once again, do you have the figures to back up your implication that the majority of the medical community agrees with your view?
Your refutation of my evolution argument implies you have reasons why circumcision would be, reproductively speaking, desirable, much more so than a natural p***s. Since you haven't shown the reasons, I conclude your refutation is without substance, so I consider it BS.

EDIT:
Some more literature on medical associations' views on neonatal circumcision:
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/fn/fn96-01.htm
Canadian Paediatric Society--"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/malecircumcision2006?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,circumcision
British Medical Association--"Best interests
In the past, circumcision of boys has been considered to be either medically or socially beneficial or, at least, neutral. The general perception has been that no significant harm was caused to the child and therefore with appropriate consent it could be carried out. The medical benefits previously claimed, however, have not been convincingly proven, and it is now widely accepted, including by the BMA, that this surgical procedure has medical and psychological risks - read more here. It is essential that doctors perform male circumcision only where this is demonstrably in the best interests of the child. The responsibility to demonstrate that non-therapeutic circumcision is in a particular child’s best interests falls to his parents."

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/marcircum.htm
American Academy of Pediatrics--" After analysis of almost 40 years of available medical research on circumcision, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued new recommendations today stating that the benefits are not significant enough for the AAP to recommend circumcision as a routine procedure. The new policy statement was published in this month's issue of Pediatrics, the journal of the AAP."

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/CMA_Bulletin/English/2005/bulletinmar1.pdf
Canadian Medical Association--"The CMA does not have an official policy, but the
existing 9-year-old CPS policy states: “Circumcision of newborns
should not be routinely performed.”

Las mujeres no me faltan,
ni el dinero ni el amor

 

[Theophrastus]

Hah, who is this Jak guy and why are we letting him run our guild?

You could give a baby a tattoo, you could put a bow on a potato and you could make a fish eat your Cheerios but, just like circumcision, none of these things would make a better [Christian/Jew/Muslim/Atheist/Potato]. Even the major religions contend this comes from faith and acts, not from body mods. Does a Christian think God would deny a faithful, loving, adoring and sincere supplicant cuz his d**k wears a turtleneck?

It's idiotic to think that there is a spiritual impact created by lobing off d**k-tips. While we're on the same page of following Old Testament traditions, you'd better come kill me because I work on the Sabbath.

What a joke.  

[ElenaMason]

Covered-Up Boxers

SaintChaos

lol no offense but im so glad im not a guy due to stuff like this xP

There's still female circumcision. While most of this thread focuses on the mutilation of baby penises(peni?), female circumcision is hardly mentioned. It's a range of procedures, by the way. It ranges from getting rid of the clitoris to... eh. gonk Also known as Female Genital Mutilation.

I'm going to assume that most of you are against female circumcision. To those of you who support male circumcision, what I'm hearing here is: cutting off parts of the p***s is okay and healthy, but vaginal mutilation is inhumane.

And, get this, only a few weeks ago it was banned in Egypt(as said by Wikipedia):

Quote:

On June 28, 2007 Egypt banned female genital cutting after the death of 12-year old Badour Shaker during a genital circumcision. The Guardian of Britain reported that her death "sparked widespread condemnation" of the practice. Egyptian newspapers reported that earlier in the day of her surgery, the girl had given out sweets, in celebration of her excellent grades in school. [37]

yeah i mentioned it earlier O.o i think its done in africa or some other place where they just use a needle and thread to close up the vaginal opening on little girl babies.  

[ElenaMason]

Cirosan

The serious amount of debate in here only supports my point. I have seen both sides of the argument, and there are significant advantages and disadvantages to circumcision. However, whether or not it is worth it is a matter of opinion left up to the individual.

The serious issue I have with it is that in some cases, circumcision is forced on the newborn without any reasoning on their part. If this was an issue such as vaccination, where the pros outweighed the cons by a large margin, the issue would be much clearer, however circumcision is split exactly 50/50 when it comes to pros and cons. What about the child? How about leaving it up to them instead of the parent? Yes, I realize the child cannot make an educated decision at that point in life, which is precisely why it should not happen!

exactly the point i was making earlier. i completely agree with your argument.  

[Baron von Turkeypants]

Soy un hombre muy honrado,
que me gusta lo mejor

At least you can still decide to get circumcised if you're not later on. Not so the other way around.

Las mujeres no me faltan,
ni el dinero ni el amor

 

[JakRandom]

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/fn/fn96-01.htm
"When parents are making a decision about circumcision, they should be advised of the present state of medical knowledge about its benefits and harms. Their decision may ultimately be based on personal, religious or cultural factors."

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/malecircumcision2006?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,circumcision
"As a general rule, however, the BMA believes that parents should be entitled to make choices about how best to promote their children’s interests..."

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/marcircum.htm
"we encourage parents to discuss the benefits and risks of circumcision with their pediatrician, and then make an informed decision about what is in the best interest of their child"

"In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."

No matter which site you look at, in general, they all agree that it is the parents decision as to whether or not a circumcision is made. Or, in other words, it not a harmful procedure that they feel needs to be stopped, they condone it.

By the way, I hope the hypocrisy of chiding me for citing one of the largest medical associations in the world for being too small (244,000) while quoting four sites who's membership only totals 260,000 is not lost on you.  

[JakRandom]

Theophrastus

[quote="It's idiotic to think that there is a spiritual impact created by lobing off d**k-tips.

Thoe, this is what the biggest sticking point in this whole thread has been for me. Intentional or unintentional misinformation. C'mon, I can agree to disagree about whether or not other people find my reasons for circumcisions acceptable. However, when the practice is portrayed as cutting of such important parts of male anatomy (foreskin being much less important than the head of your p***s), or claims that it has no medical benefits, as in zero, zip, nadda, none, when this is directly contradicted by medical research, I have a problem.

Edit: As an atheist, I pride myself on making well informed scientific decisions. The reason I argued so vehemently in the beginning of this thread was, because (I think) until page 5 the only source offered in opposition of circumcision was one that showed obvious contempt for medical opinion and attributed SIDS, increased risk of HIV, and 'baby swaping' to circumcision in a very intellectually dishonest way.  

[Baron von Turkeypants]

Soy un hombre muy honrado,
que me gusta lo mejor

On the contrary, it serves my point.

Las mujeres no me faltan,
ni el dinero ni el amor

 

[Redem]

Quote:

No matter which site you look at, in general, they all agree that it is the parents decision as to whether or not a circumcision is made. Or, in other words, it not a harmful procedure that they feel needs to be stopped, they condone it.

On the contrary. All of them agree that there is no medical case to be made of circumcision, but that they, as doctors, do not have a right to prevent parents from doing it for religious/cultural reasons. But they all agree there is no medical case to be made.

It is telling that so many medical claims are only relevant long after the child is sexually active, when they are old enough to choose for themselves. There is certainly no good reason for doing it right after birth. That's just sickening, frankly.

The medical claims are also usually easier to deal with in non-surgical ways. The use of condoms for example. Or a dorsal slit to relieve tight foreskins. Or the simple act of washing it regularly.

The foreskin is there for a damn good reason, it protects the most sensitive part of the human body from abrasion, from drying out, from contact with chemicals, from dirt and assorted other things you do NOT want near your glans. It also contains some of the nerves that make sex pleasurable.  

[Freebird4077]

Circumcision helps prevent Smegma, also known as d**k Cheese.  

[Baron von Turkeypants]

Soy un hombre muy honrado,
que me gusta lo mejor

You're just a few pages late.

Las mujeres no me faltan,
ni el dinero ni el amor

 

[Redem]

Mysterytrip

Circumcision helps prevent Smegma, also known as d**k Cheese.

Smegma is there for a reason. Women also have it, but e don't tend to cut bits off them to prevent it. We just teach them how to wash themselves.