I'm quitting gaia.

[Iakun]

My aim in this exchange wasn't really to sway anyone to a particular viewpoint. I just thought it was interesting to toss around different perspectives and ideas though I do admit it can't go too far if the 3 of us have very set in stone outlooks lol.

I don't believe we're alone in the end, and I certainly don't believe that the world is a big pile of crap. The world isn't perfect and there is a lot of horror that goes on but it's up to us as a race to continue to better ourselves across the centuries.

I haven't had to put up with as much gay-bashing as tons of other gays have, and to be honest I'm not angry at anti-gay people. I don't want them to burn in hell or get hit by a truck. I just think they're misguided in their stance and hope that a lot of them change their viewpoint. Dealing with life is a tiny bit easier because of my friends. They might not always be around me physically, especially in Moonracer's case, but I know they love me and so they're always in my mind and heart.

I think a lot of problems arise because we really don't allow ourselves to stop and examine our emotions... I have some problems of my own that play a part in keeping me stuck in a hermit's life but even I acknowledge that I'm the one that has the power to change my life. Why don't I do it? Fear of many things, other reasons too though. But at some point I'm gonna have to change something if I don't wanna die a hermit.  

[purpleravenhawk]

And the Tony goes to....Iakun for his portrayal of the Voice of Reason in The Great Debate! whee  

[xwhateverxdudex]

Anyone notice that the size of my posts have gotten steadily smaller? rofl

Purple: no one really knows how anyone would react to anything (despite the fact the you like to say otherwise do to phychology) - there are always unknown variables.

And I have found people to talk to, that believe the same as me, they're just online. I maybe a hermit in this world, but I'm not in my world.

As for everyone just thinking about stuff before they do it... I think you're giving the world too much credit. (odd, considdering you also believe it's going to hell in a hand-basket) You are a special case, and phychology seems to color your view of the world. But most people are too stupid and caught up in their own worlds, to stop and think about anything. (note the "most" - I am admitting to exceptions here) I'm not saying they can't, I'm saying they don't even know that the choice is there. There IS after all, a reason we are called "social ANIMALS"

And if I met someone in real life that likes what I like... I wouldn't open up out of guilt.
It would be because I'd finally found someone (IRL) that would actually agree with me, and I could agree with them.

And what? People aren't allowed to have wild and extreme fetishes? There is such a thing as role-playing remember? (and many people do) Doesn't make it wrong, just because someone else thinks it's extreme.





Iakun:indeed... We are all set in stone.
And I admit that I exagerate alot, especially when I'm trying to make a statement about what I believe.  

[purpleravenhawk]

I didn't say there were no other people at all who felt the same as you. I just meant that there are probably fewer than you think. I know that most people don't think about stuff. But they should, and getting stuff handed to them on a silver platter encourages them not to.

You seem to be equating "liking what you like" with caring and concern. People can care about you and be concerned about you and show interest in you without liking all the stuff you like. You don't have to have everything in common with someone to get along.

When I said "extreme," I meant the fantasies about hurting other people in some way that they didn't enjoy. I should have been more specific.  

[Iakun]

Hell no one I know completely agrees with all my beliefs but that doesn't stop us from being friends. One of my best friends is quite a lot more logical and liberal than I am but we're still best friends. Actually I don't now if he's more liberal so much as just a little more open to trying things out than I am.

I'm actually planning to start changing my hermit ways this year. I need to get on top of my weight issue and I'd like to get into voice coaching (dropped out of choir in highschool) and eventually perform, even if on a small level.

The only fetishes off the top of my head that I worry about are rape fantasies, master slave, golden showers and scat. Rape fantasies are strange because of the desire to victimize one's self or dominate another so completely. This can be applied to master slave as well. Golden showers and scat are just flat out unhygienic.  

[xwhateverxdudex]

PURPLE: BUT "getting stuff handed to us on a silver platter" is easy.
I like things like that. I just wish more of what I like would be free.
(instead of me having to fight tooth and nail for it, as it feels)

The problem is when someones "caring and concern" involves them telling me that everything I like and enjoy is wrong and bad, and how I should change my entire life to what they think is right and good. (like you and everyone else that doesn't like hentai)
I'd rather talk to someone that just "likes what I like" - then at least we could find something to agree to talk about.
(I'm not saying everything, I'm saying something... preferably my main interests)

What, never heard of rape fantasies?
LOTS of people like to role-play that too.
(and not just where girls are the victims)





Iakun: OK, I've never heard the term "Golden Shower" or "Scat" before.
But as for rape and "master slave" fantasies...
Like you said, there are people (both male and female) that fantasize about being the victim and being the attacker.

If 2 people are into that sort of thing, then I don't see the issue.
It's their fantasy and (provided they don't get carried away and actually permanently hurt each other) they should be allowed to enjoy it regardless of what other people think.
It's when someone can't find other person that also has these fetishes... that's when hentai will be there for them.





That's the freedom I believe in.
*nods*  

[Iakun]

xwhateverxdudex

The problem is when someones "caring and concern" involves them telling me that everything I like and enjoy is wrong and bad, and how I should change my entire life to what they think is right and good. (like you and everyone else that doesn't like hentai)
I'd rather talk to someone that just "likes what I like" - then at least we could find something to agree to talk about.
(I'm not saying everything, I'm saying something... preferably my main interests)

You're painting a very rosy picture of what friendship is. Friendship isn't about being a "yes man" to people. That's part of why celebs don't stop being so messed up, because they don't have real friends stopping them and setting them on the right track. Sometimes you need someone else to give you a swift kick in the pants to wake you up to the fact that there may be things in your life you need to change. I've had those wake up calls and they're uncomfortable, but very necessary.

I don't think hentai itself is the problem. If you're obsessively looking at it 24/7, now that's a problem lol The hermit thing though, is definitely something that needs to be looked at. Like a drug addict, you're in the thick of it so OF COURSE you'll think you're totally fine and won't want to hear anyone else's opinion (least of all your sister's most likely xd ).  

[xwhateverxdudex]

You're right.
I am "in the thick of it" and don't like to be told that I should leave it.
I know that it consumes (almost) my every waking thought, and that that's not exactly healthy either.
(And yes, I know that being a hermit isn't good either ^^; )

But I'm a "polar opposite" kind of guy... If someone tells me that hentai isn't good (or that anything even remotely erotic is "pornographic crap" - as in my mom's case) then I'm going to want to dive in deeper.

It's when I talk to someone that also likes it, and doesn't treat it like the most demonic thing on the planet (or at least accepts it as something I like), THAT is when it doesn't seem so important to me.

But it's when someone tells me that it's garbage, that's when I get defensive and say... "HEY, this is mine, and you have no right to tell me what I can and can't enjoy" (that's just the kind of guy I am)

And yes, I realize that that was a VERY overly rose-ified view of friendship. ^^;  

[purpleravenhawk]

Wow, Iakun, you and I are totally on the same page. xd It's nice to know I can take a day off from gaia, and you can handle the argument for me. whee

Dude: For future reference, golden shower and scat are peeing and pooping on command, and on another person. gonk

Yes, I'm familiar with rape fantasies. My words were "hurting other people in some way THAT THEY DIDN'T ENJOY." If you're into it, you're enjoying it, whether it hurts or not. Ever hear the song "Hurt So Good"?

I knew you were always opposing whatever I said on purpose just to be opposite. rolleyes That's silly and causes more arguments than are necessary. As I've said, I DON'T have a problem with porn, as long as it's not huring anyone. But obsessing over it and spending 24/7 on it constitutes harm for the viewer.

Very often, someone's concern DOES take the form of telling a friend they have a problem. Iakun's right; if they didn't, they wouldn't be true friends. That's why I always try to listen when people tell me stuff; they might be right. And if they're doing it out of concern for me, they're good friends. If not, they need to mind their own beeswax, lol. xd The key is in the difference. Even so, you can always learn something from an enemy or someone who doesn't have your best interest in mind. You can learn something from the stupidest man on the planet. You just have to pay attention.  

[Tybarious]

You know what are great? TACO!!!!!!!!!! scream  

[Iakun]

lulz... Thanks Ty... I think we needed some taco to lighten things up. I also wanna apologize a little to Dude. Though I think we've said what we need to say, I can't help but feel like I ganged up on him or something which doesn't seem fair cuz it's not like my life was scrutinized to make things balanced. Hell, I sure ain't perfect.  

[purpleravenhawk]

It only feels like that cuz he happens to be on a side that opposes our side. No big. I'm sure we could find a topic where you and I differed. I finally found one where Moonracer and I differed, and it only took, what, like, four years? xd Let's see, how do you feel about vegetarianism? That's a good polarizing topic. People seem to love it or hate it. I'm a lover. Meatless tacos for me. How about you?  

[xwhateverxdudex]

Purple: O_O
That's just ew, especially the "on another person" part.

No actually I've never heard of that song.

My problem is not being able to tell the difference between concern and just trying to be bossy because they think they're right all the time.

Tybar: Sorry, I don't like tacos.

Iakun: That's ok ^.^
Though it did seem like I got ganged up upon, if you're a hentai lover, you kind of get used to everyone being against you.  

[purpleravenhawk]

Dude, you need more practice in reading people. 3nodding

And you know, hentai lovers aren't the only people who have to get used to everyone being against them. I'm an atheist, liberal, vegetarian, animal rights/environmental activist and bookworm who lives in the midwest. How do you think I've felt for most of my life? xp  

[Tybarious]

More the reason to rise up against dude xd