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[Biohazard EXTREME]

Umm... No, not fact... Dude... "Something is better than something else" is almost the definition of opinion. There's a difference between more profitable, or more influential, and better. I mean... Speaking from your point of view... What's better? The original First Blood or First Blood Part 2? I already know your answer... But frankly, Rambo 2 and 3 are the highest selling Rambo movies, and the majority of people know the character from those two films. Which, I'd say, makes them a hell of a lot more influential on our culture as a whole... But you've made it pretty clear that you think they suck, so, yeah... More influential does not always mean better.

I mean, I could say, "Avatar is better than The Dark Knight. That's just fact," and while I do believe that, I'm sure there's a lot of Batman fans (and I wouldn't be surprised if that included Canas) who'd gladly beat the s**t out of me for that statement.  

[King of Paradise]

To tell the truth, I think that T2 and Aliens are both equally influential when it comes to the standard set for blockbuster sequels. I honestly, honestly believe that when it comes to such a topic as the best blockbuster sequels out there, T2 and Aliens both have yet to be beaten in quality. It's actually hard for me to choose which one I prefer over the other, but when it comes down to it, it's a personal thing for me. Robots > Aliens.

But Stranger, you are right. I mean, just look at Avatar. So many self-ripped concepts, including the giant robo suit. I thought it so awesome and ironic when in the end of Avatar, you were rooting for the alien to defeat the human in the robo suit this time around.  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Thee Stranger

Um, dude. If you took that whole statement that Aliens is for a fact better seriously, well... I don't know. But it wasn't serious. Chill out.

I don't know when you're being serious anymore.

Thee Stranger

And Rambo's depiction and over-the-top antics from II & III may be more iconic among the culture, but not really influential. And certainly not groundbreaking. Aliens' influence can still be seen in a lot of movies and s**t to this day. Can't really say the same for Rambo. And Commando is probably the sole direct Rambo influence I've seen in a film outside of parody.

Dude, Iconic isn't far from influential. Rambo has become a title in our society more so than a character name.
If I say, "Okay there, Rambo," so someone, they'd know exactly what I mean.
And it wouldn't be saying, "Okay there, war veteran with post traumatic stress disorder." It would be saying, "Okay there, macho action hero."
That's what it is. When you can call out a character's name, and everyone knows exactly what you're trying to say about them... Like...
If I was to say, "Okay there, Duncan MacLeod." The person would be like, "Umm... Are you saying I'm immortal?" You know, it's not clear.
If you say, "Okay there, Terminator." One would say, "Are you saying that I'm a robot? Or that I like to shoot at kneecaps?"
But you say, "Easy, Rambo," and they'd know exactly what you mean.

That's all I'm saying. And even though Ripley was the first female action heroine, it's not a household name.

@Chase: It's not a robot. It's a cybernetic organism. >_>  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Well, influential in itself could mean different things. When you say influential, you obviously mean on the film industry.
But Rambo was a lot more influential on our society... Our pop culture as a whole. You're more likely to hear Rambo's name in a conversation that has nothing to do with movies. You're playing a video game... It could be anything, it could be Far Cry or Area 51, or MGS, or Resident Evil. And you're being all methodical about it.
Then you say, "Okay screw this, I'm gonna go Rambo on their asses," and you run out guns blasting, and kill everything in sight. This has nothing to do with Vietnam War Vets, or with Sylvester Stallone, or even the medium of movies in general. But you just made a Rambo reference about the sheer act of over the top action.
And even if you have like... RE3, or Tomb Raider, or whatever, you're not thinking, "What a strong female action heroine. Just like Ripley!"
It's got nothing to do with liking the movie better, it's just a matter of how much influence that character has had on our pop culture.
It's like... If someone says, "My dietician says I'm not supposed to eat after midnight," and you say, "What are you? A Gremlin?" And depending on how many people would get that reference, that's how influential that franchise has been on our society.
It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to spawn clones, or ripoffs, or homages... Althought in CAN include them. Just look at the Matrix. That film, honestly, was more influential than Rambo OR Aliens. Because not only have its scenes been parodized, ripped off and almost standardized, but the names and quotes are household too. Saying stuff like, "Mr. Anderson!" or "I am The One" You'll know exactly what I'm referring to.
I mean, it can go full circle too, sometimes something is so influential, that it has no choice but to be forgotten, just because it ends up becoming really, really stale.
Like, Pyramid Head in a way. Around the time the Silent Hill movie came out, Silent Hill was probably at its peak of popularity. And Pyramid Head jokes were the center of every damn conversation. It got to the point where Pyramid Head pretty much ceased to be cool. And people stopped giving a s**t. And The Matrix fell into the same hole.

And while Resident Evil 4 had great impact on the way action shooters are made today... It might've been influentail in THAT way. Aside from the people who actually either became "fans" of Resident Evil after playing it, or people who were fans to begin with and actually enjoyed it...
Aside from those people, nobody remembers the characters, the quotes, the names. Those aspects were never influential in the first place.
As opposed to... Say... "It'sa me, Mario!"
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played a Mario game in a while... I know that Mario has retained that high pitched voice to this day, and still goes, "Whoohoo!" When he jumps and all that... But I don't think there's been any games for a while, where he actually says those exact words... In fact, did he say them in any game outside of Mario 64?

In any case, that's what I mean. When I say Rambo was more influential, I mean, it's become a commonplace name in our society, a lot more so than Ripley, or Aliens. You could say, "I'm fighting Aliens," and it could mean anything. It could mean little green men with big heads and almond shaped eyes. It could mean Mexicans. And I'm not saying that Aliens weren't influential on our pop culture, they definitely were. I mean, how often do you see them being parodied? In like, every cartoon of the 1990s, they'd be watching a Sci-Fi show, and the aliens in those shows always had another mouth inside their mouth. So yeah, visually, it's definitely had an impact on our pop culture.
But I still think Rambo outdid them in that aspect. From a big shirtless guy with a headband. To the term "Rambo" in itself, which can be a noun, verb OR an adjective. Even if people don't really care about the movie franchise in itself, it had stamped its way into our society...
I guess that's the thing. I mean, they're still making Alien vs. Predator stuff, and that's all good. Alien as a franchise might be more relevant than Rambo or Terminator or whatever. But Rambo as a name, and a concept stays relevant without needing any new franchise aspects whatsoever.

I bet when I grow old and have kids, they'll still be saying, "I'm gonna go all Rambo on their a**!" and run out guns blazing. You know, in video games and stuff.

Edit: If you're gonna follow up all this, I think we should take it to the Debate subforum.  

[o8Orobouros8o]

Uhm, sorry to say but I'd rather go Riddick than Rambo on someone. And I'd sooner pull an Eastwood than a Terminator.

So, I think it more depends on what you were raised watching. Because I couldn't tell you anything about Rambo or Aliens or Predator or Terminator because I thought they were stupid and walked out. So really, none of the people you mentioned were influential too me personally except maybe Duncan MacLeod who set the standard of what a guy is supposed to act like.

And who the hell is Ripley?  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Egad... I'm not even gonna touch that post. burning_eyes  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Thee Stranger

Well, I'd take it to the debate subforum, but I don't have much to say in regards to this.

You're right, I was talking about its influence on the film industry and digital media in general. Nothing to do with pop culture here. The fact is, I've seen Aliens' influence in number of things outside of the franchise. Resident Evil (both RE3 and the first movie) being one of them. Halo being a BIG one of them, even going so far as to take direct lines. I've seen it in dozens of other action movies, science fiction movies, etc.

Whenever you see some badass tough girl among a group of men in a military unit of some sort, you're looking at Vasquez. Whenever you see a dude going all "Rambo" on a number of foes and screaming something along the lines of "come and get it!" right before they overtake him and kill him, that's Hudson. And you see this s**t all the time, and it's all from Aliens.

And just earlier I said that UBCS guy in the beginning of RE3 "pulled a Hudson". And my most all my friends would know what I meant by that.

Yeah well, aside from the oh so many influences on MGS, Rambo 2 and 3 weren't really that groundbreaking in terms of media influence, maybe. For shame too, cause frankly, despite how you feel, I love those high octane action movies with guns and explosions. But hey, Rambo 1 was the first movie to address Vietnam War veterans, even if not in a direct way. It also started the 90 minute movie formula, instead of the 2+ hour movies, which was a standard before its time.

But either way, the long term point is that influence doesn't always define when something's good. I mean... 50 Cent had a tremendous influence on the mainstream music industry... But that's saying... He pretty much lowered its standards.

Thee Stranger

@ Violetta: Obviously, you didn't even watch Aliens. That's okay. It's not really a chick flick. But I guarantee you've seen plenty of things that have lifted elements from it. Whereas you probably haven't seen a lot of s**t that borrowed from Rambo or Terminator. This was my point. But you know, or at least have a general idea, of what a Terminator or a Rambo is. Because they're pop culture icons. Two different things here.

And again, you might say, "I'm gonna go Riddick on their a**," but who the hell knows that that means? Riddick doesn't define explosive, violent action. In fact, if there's one defining trait about Riddick, that anyone, like me, who's not a fan would know is that... "I'm gonna go Riddick on their a**" "You're gonna turn the lights off, and kill them in the dark, so they can't see you?"

It's not about liking Rambo, it's about recognizing what it means in our general society.  

[UmbraGallus]

I hear that RE6 might take up to 8 years to come out if they ever make one... >.>

Link

I don't feel like looking for other sources but i hope that 8 years becomes never. razz  

[Canas Renvall]

That was announced about a month after RE5 came out. And personally, I'm just waiting to see what their supposed reboot is all about.  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

So... Does that mean we can spend 8 (or I guess at this point 7) whole years without having to predict how shitty the next game will be?