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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:39 am
Jounouchi nodded as he listened, looking around for a parking spot for a moment before giving up and asking, "So what was the powder anyway? You said you'd read a little something on it, even though you weren't sure that's what she gave you?"
((It's been too long for me as well, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese one made the girl even more sympathetic than the English. Though they also did the unsatisfying part, I do remember that much. Now I want to watch that again. Wonder if it's on Netflix; I know Juan is. I really liked both versions of Shutter, but I looked on Rotten Tomatoes, and the Taiwanese one has like a 30% and the English one has like a 5%. XD Guess I'm disagreeing with critics more and more. I do agree that most adaptations seem like lazy Hollywood, but it's difficult for me to be offended by something that doesn't change the original, and gives me an alternate way of looking at it, even if it's bad. Exceptions being to movies/shows based on books or comics that I am extremely emotionally invested in, when they make something super out of character. Then my logical approach of I shouldn't be offended goes right out the window. XD I don't have enough attachment to horror films though to be offended for their sake, and can enjoy even shitty adaptations.))
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 3:48 am
'That, well Futata might have a better answer to that than I do, and there were more references to properties or how it might work than actual names. Though it is generally referred to as some type of salt, even though that doesn't ever seem to be an element of the powder.'
Moments later Seto finally found a spot in which the limo would fit. After a particularly deft parallel park, considering he rarely drove himself, he turned off the engine and quickly exited the vehicle.
((I am more emotionally invested when I love something definitely but still intellectually offended by lazy with anything. Thus far I haven't personally seen a remake that did anything for me though as there are a few remakes of Western material that I like I allow it could work. I definitely can understand remakes and/or modern retellingsn of very old films and those I do tend to like and see motivation gfor more often, though sometimes it is clearly not a passion project and it just fails. However, some films I think have a conceptually sound idea but didn't have the tech and/or budget to really do it justice, so seeing those kinds of reimaginings I do enjoy even if it falls flat on occasion.))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:54 pm
Jounouchi nodded, dropping the subject as soon as the car wasn't moving, immediately getting out and going to open Shizuka's door. He dove into the car and hugged her tight, "I'm so glad you're okay."
((I can be intellectually offended for something I don't have much emotional attachment for, but since there are no emotions to it, it doesn't bother me enough to ruin the experience usually. I'm able to take the remake more on its own, without worrying about the changes that downgrade it. It might also be because so many non-remakes have just as much laziness and lack of passion. I feel remakes only add to that by downgrading from their source material, but otherwise are no worse than the thousands of other lazy Hollywood movies. And since the source material itself hasn't actually been downgraded, eh, no skin off my back.))
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:25 am
Shizuka returned the hug affectionately, 'I'm fine, no need to worry about me.'
'We should get inside,' Kaiba told them, helping Anzu out of the other side of the vehicle.
((It doesn't bother me as much and probably doesn't really ruin the experience it just has me more likely to watch something unless there is a social reason for it. I mean I only saw the American Ring (and the Grudge) because they were part of outings with friends. I don't have as many horror fans these days (I never had tons but when you are in HS all your friends are concentrated, you also go to the movies more often as your social options are more restricted when you are underage and under parental control) so it always comes down to me choosing things I want to watch on my own or that I'm trying to convince a non-horror fan to give a chance. So while I still inevitably watch a lot of crap I tend to choose things that I have hope for. I can't really believe that a remake of a foreign film (whereas the changes are generally just making it not foreign rather than any sort of creative insight) would be better than the original, so I generally just err on the side of wait until I'm in the mood for subtitles. Unfortunately that often ends up being that I see neither and/or I can't find subtitles because the horror gods must hate me. xd
There are definitely still thousands of other lazy Hollywood movies, which is why horror remakes aren't just shunned alone. I shun a lot of movies these days particularly as cinema experiences (and consequently I probably don't bother to look for things after the fact). I think if I didn't live abroad I wouldn't have seen almost any recent movies as I've watched most of them on a plane. I watched Captain America on a plane. Liking that plus having begun a relationship with Tom whose a big TV/film Marvel fan (but never got into comics as he doesn't know where to begin/it can be a costly start up depending) kicked off how I got into that whole franchise. Without planes I might never have been able to hold Marvel film conversations. In the past few years the only non-Marvel films I've seen in theatres have been Hobbit films, Star Trek Into Darkness (a social outing with a group), Divergent (a social outing with a friend I only see once every other year give or take) and the Dark Knight Rises. I also only got into Nolan's Batman trilogy because of a social outing that took me to see the Dark Knight back in 2008 (I after the fact went back and watched Begins). So yea, the upside is I'm actually more often pleasantly surprised because I expect to never really find things I love in the recent film industry. I think Avatar was kind of a big shift in my view of movies, when films went from plot/character development to how great they look being of highest importance. I mean that stuff on a great film is great (sometimes, I'm still not the best sell on the visual), but that being expected to BE the great component of a film is disappointing.
All that said, I watched the Incredible Hulk a few days ago. I can see elements of what could have been a working movie (if not a great movie) in there. And a lot of times I felt the problem was the film cut away from parts I'd actually want to see. Something would happen and then lets cut to a few hours/days later and all I can think is, so a pretty interesting conversation must have happened between characters A and B in that gap, or man, the transition to get to this scenario seems curious. So not sure if it was a problem of actually not having an answer/know how to fit a proper progression in or if those things were overlooked. It felt jarring and while it wasn't terrible it definitely felt like it had potential to at least be good (if not great) and the focus was just off. Also, I think I can easily say Betty is probably last place girlfriend for me now. I also felt Betty/Bruce were pretty wooden (though Betty/Hulk were okay). Anyhow I'd be interested in seeing them do something beyond the origin story, particularly with Ruffalo. While there is still no word on whether Marvel will roll the dice and go for Hulk 2, Ruffalo does apparently have a six film contract so they've definitely left space for it in terms of casting at any rate. Guess we'll see, I'd probably give it a shot at this point though as always I will be going in with a fairly low bar of expectations. rofl ))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:28 pm
Jounouchi nodded, holding Shizuka by the hand as he followed the other two inside. He and Anzu exchanged a brief hug once they were safe, then he looked around to see if the others had arrived yet.
Sen hurried over as soon as she saw them enter the shrine, "Is everyone okay? Did the powder work?" she looked around, smiling, "I'm so glad you guys are safe."
((Fair enough. Saving your movie viewings to the ones that are most likely good. I have a lot of friend groups that love going to different types of movies, so I usually end up seeing most things I'm even a little interested in, and sometimes even ones I don't give a s**t about.
Ah, so you finally watched it. XD Yeah, I remember there being some weird transitions. Jane is still my least favorite of the girlfriends, but Betty is a close second. I also think though that Ruffalo's Bruce (not just because of the actor but because of Whedon) is way better developed and more interesting as a character, as is his Hulk. So now, even with a different writer/director than Whedon, if they try another Hulk movie, they have a lot more to work off of, and a good starting ground. Like how Black Widow as pretty one-dimensional in Iron Man 2, but then had a great characterization and personality in Avengers, and Cap 2 worked off that and developed her even more. I'd hope that's what they'd do with Bruce and Hulk if they made another movie.))
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:33 pm
Seto was a bit unnerved to see that his brother, Yuugi and Honda had not arrived yet but they did have a slightly longer trip. It wasn't the right time to panic yet.
'Yes it did,' he responded, focusing on the discussion at hand, 'well, it did what I wanted it to do at any rate.'
- - -
Honda became impatient as he watched Jounouchi and his group rush into the shrine, Mokuba seemed similarly irritated as they waited for the light to change. Honda almost flew out of the car when they were finally in front of the shrine, Mokuba practically on top of him. The two of them raced on without a second glance back toward the driver, leaving it to Yuugi to be polite and follow after.
((Most of my good friends are a bit scattered now, dinner/drink functions tend to be the more common academic social setting, usually forums more suitable for discussions. I do have to add Monsters University to my list of things I've seen in cinemas fairly recently (though almost a year ago now I suppose, but I think my list started generally around 2011), which was a social function with PhD friends. I am however tagging along with Tom's friends tomorrow and they are seeing Godzilla. Guess they are mine too, and friends I've actually known a bit longer than I've known Tom. One is probably better friends with me than Tom, but the other is much better friends with Tom and he's the one who organised the endeavor. Rambling story short, I tend to not see even most of what I think I'd be interested in, but I don't usually see much of the stuff I have no interest in either. The few exceptions toward the latter I've found to be things I end up enjoying.
Definitely true, and apparently Whedon tossed about a discussion considering Planet Hulk around when Avengers came out, so maybe even that would be a possibility. Guess we'll see. They'll probably watch to see how Age of Ultron and Guardians of the Galaxy play out. I don't know if I'm overly interested in Guardians but Tom's interested so I suppose I'll be giving it a shot at least. I can't believe that Fantastic 4 (and Fantastic 4 sequel) are being remade though, and the casting seems quite unusual. Though perhaps that will really work in its favour. I only realised this when looking up the cast of Divergent, I showed Tom the guy who will be playing Mr Fantastic and he said 'he looks like a tool.' I responded with 'he plays a tool in Divergent' and Tom was indignant, 'Mr Fantastic is not a tool.' So it's at least prompted amusing convos already. I can't stop giggling though trying to imagine Billy Eliot as The Thing.))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:11 pm
Sen sighed in relief, "I'm so glad...! I wasn't really sure if that would even work." she admitted sheepishly.
She then turned and smiled at the two new girls, "I'm Futata Sen by the way. Nice to meet you." she bowed.
---
Yuugi hurriedly thanked and payed the driver before rushing off after his friends, having a hard time catching up even with Mokuba due to his short stature.
As soon as they were inside, Mokuba ran to Kaiba, jumping into his arms, "Nii Sama!"
Yuugi similarly ran to hug Anzu and Jounouchi.
((Haha, I wasn't going to see Monsters University, because I'd never cared much for the first movie, but got dragged along, and was very pleasantly surprised. I found it way, way better than the first one. I'm also going to see Godzilla this weekend. Not sure what day yet, but I'm super excited for that one, because I used to be terrified of dinosaurs and to this day I still have nightmares about being lost in a jungle with Godzilla-sized Tyrannosauruses, so this will be the first time I'll see a Godzilla movie without being terrified. Plus the main characters are played by the same people doing Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in Avengers 2, and they're playing husband and wife in this, so I'm going to be giggling like an immature nine-year-old.
Oh my gosh I would absolutely adore if they did a Planet Hulk. Plus it's more feasible now since they're doing Guardians. I saw a poll recently asking what superhero movie coming out this year people were most excited for, and surprisingly, Guardians had the most votes at 30%. And this was before Winter Soldier came out. So I think it has a pretty good shot of doing well. I personally never cared about the Guardians in comics, mostly because space has just never been an interesting fictional setting for me, but of course I'll see it because it's in the Marvel Universe, and the fact they seem to be making it into a semi-comedy is enough to make me actually excited for it. Gives me something to have more investment in than the space setting. As for Fantastic Four, you should tell Tom that I totally find Reed Richards to be a tool, and most other comic readers do too. XD He's extremely arrogant and always finds way to insert how much he knows and how smart he is into conversations. He even told Hank Pym, the discoverer of Pym Particles, "You may have discovered them, but we both know I'm more knowledgeable about them than you."
By the way, I was curious what you thought about the casting choice for Human Torch, making him black. I know you don't identify much with black culture, but wanted to get the opinion on that from someone of color. I'm mixed. I feel like it's important to have more diversity in movies, especially male-oriented action movies, but at the same time, it seems kind of insulting that rather than actually having well-developed, interesting black characters brought into movies, they've just taken a white character, who's already well-developed and popular, and made him black to fulfill their diversity quota. I felt similarly with Nick Fury, but that situation was a little different, since there already was a black Nick Fury from a prominent, alternate Marvel Universe, who was inspired from Samuel L Jackson, and who already had a distinctly different personality from the white Fury in the main universe, and in my opinion, a better, more interesting and likable personality. So that more seemed like they had two options (one already based on a famous movie star that they could totally contract into their movies), and went with the one with the famous movie star connection and the better personality. They also based Hawkeye's outfit off the Hawkeye from that alternate universe, rather than the dorky one from the main universe, so it's obvious they're picking and choosing whatever is better from different Marvel realities. So yeah, I thought the Fury one had a lot of good reasoning behind it, but still felt a little like trying to meet a diversity quota, rather than bringing in one of the many awesome characters of color Marvel already has, like Luke Cage or Black Panther. Anyway, just wanted to see what you thought about all that.))
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:41 am
Seto nodded slightly as his brother ran up to him, slightly unsteady when Mokuba threw himself around his waist unexpectedly.
- - -
'Jounouchi,' Honda shouted as Mokuba ran out of his brother, 'Anzu what are you doing here? What happened? Is everyone okay?'
((Heh, Yuugi didn't have to pay the driver it was a Kaiba Corp car I believe, just generally implying that the party was too anxious to actually wait and give the drivers orders - such as you are dismissed for the day, or wait here - before rushing off. xd
Monsters Inc is one of the only Pixar movies I like but Monsters University didn't look like it would be at all anything I'd be interested in. Plus my favourite character was Boo and she couldn't be in a prequel. I was however pleasantly surprised, but it was a very different kind of movie which is probably why it worked for me. Generally Pixar is extra cute and usually its dark bits are buried in cute and boring. It's too aimed at children. However, Monsters U had a bit more of a crass humour that I enjoyed. Should be seeing Godzilla in about 4-6 hours but I still haven't been given a time, hooray! xd At least I'm being picked up so that's okay. I just have to remain dressed.
Yea Guardians enabling Planet Hulk was a discussion I had with Tom b/c he said it couldn't work (even if he'd want to see it) as it's a one way trip and he'd be out of Avengers and my rebuttal was Guardians kind of nixes that concern. I'm not a big comedy fan which is the big reason why I'm not sure it'll be my thing but I'll give it a shot. I think enough people are on the Marvel train now that it's chances are pretty good - but the same could be said for a Hulk sequel. Hulk might have also done better if it hadn't been one of the first movies to come out when people weren't still considering whether a Marvel film franchise could work. See, I know nothing about Fantastic 4, I wasn't into superheros (other than X-men) when the last batch of films came out and they were so thoroughly reamed by critic and friend alike that I've never bothered to give them a shot. I nonetheless couldn't imagine someone who went by the title 'Mr Fantastic' could possibly be anything less than a tool. So I will definitely pass the word on to Tom. smile
My feelings on it is I don't really feel most superhero characters have strong ethnic ties, so unless 'white' is his culture and integral to he is I just don't see it mattering particularly. I mean there is more argument for why period films (e.g. Shakespeare films, Medieval tales, etc) don't make sense to have racially blind casting, because being a certain race 100+ years ago absolutely defines who you are. So it does change the nature of the character (especially an existing character, such as a Shakespearean one) to change their race. A lot of comic characters are older than a time in which women were considered equal people (as they still are fighting for that) and race is a division (which also it still is). However, they are not inherently defined by their race or gender and so while I can see people getting up in arms, I have a feeling it's probably for the same subliminal racist feelings that persist today, that people like a familiar face. I mean the reason (admittedly so by most of the film industry) why so many actors/actresses were white is that the general (primarily white) American audiences were more comfortable and related better to white characters. The majority of America is still white, and its only recently that the non-white population is starting to have a problem with it. So yes, I agree they are taking a developed and popular character, but does his whiteness have anything to do with his development or popularity? Well, the latter probably, but again that's still probably for the psychological deep-rooted prejudices that still persist today. A character whose development is absolutely linked in to his racial background is more often from a developing nation, an oppressed/war torn nation, or being a minority, etc etc. Most 'good development' honestly does not stem from being white though, because when you are using the majority race you don't need to actually develop their race, their race is rarely a source of conflict when they aren't the minority so its rarely a huge aspect of who they are. There is very little about a middle class white American that doesn't potentially apply to a middle class black or Hispanic or Asian American unless the setting is somewhere where minorities are treated poorly for being a minority. Because of this though, I think it'd be a bigger challenge to make an ethnic character white than the other way around when dealing with a modern setting. I mean if this Fantastic 4 is even being set 50+ years ago then that is a different discussion. If it's being set today though I don't see why this is a character where his colour matters. I mean if they decide to imbue him with 'gangster' or some other stereotypical ethnic background then yes, that's changing the character. But if he's just 'a guy' whose skin happens to be some colour then it doesn't really seem a big change other than the fact that audiences are making it a big change. So in short, I think the only problem I see with it is that it has to be a deliberate action and/or an action that needs to be analysed, that people feel the need to debate, discuss and have feelings toward. The problem is that whiteness or blackness or whatever is a root part of who people are, and while I think culture is great I also think arguments like that are what keep racism alive and well. I mean they are remaking Fantastic 4 which I've said is a series I'm not familiar with, but I assume it's always been these four characters. So I'm not sure how it would be less offensive to bring in a tag-along character who isn't part of the Fantastic 4 to have some colour in the background. I feel that would be way more just pushing toward a diversity quota than just changing the race of a character who might not be all that tied to their race.
What is more interesting is the fact that they are having a white and black sibling, and I'm wondering if that's something they are going to explain. Whether they are going for half siblings, adopted or they'll just let it be. I mean if you have interracial parents then in theory they could be entirely full siblings as genetics is fun that way. So I'm more interested in seeing how that's going to be handled/addressed (and preferably, for me, I'd rather it not be something to make a point of and just let it be because that is the more progressive approach in my opinion). So yea, that's my thoughts. Why are most superheros tied to their race so much that it matters to change them? And I guess honestly, do I believe that the answer is really anything other than a sort of racism that yes we are all guilty of, because we still haven't quite gotten past seeing race. I think we can have culture and race as two separate things to view, and its not denying culture to not hammer on about race.))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:48 pm
"We're fine Honda." Anzu smiled. "Though I think most of us are kind of in the dark about all that happened..." she frowned, wondering how many people knew she had been possessed. Again.
"Sorry to worry you guys so much." Jounouchi pat Honda on the back, "Everyone is safe for now. We have a lot to talk about and plan though."
((Oh, whoops. XD Wasn't entirely sure what the car situation was. We can just say he said thank you and asked the driver to remain nearby then.
I feel like Pixar has been getting slowly but surely a bit more adult. Not enough to not work for kids, but enough to grow up a bit with its first audience. I liked that a lot about Monsters University. I also liked how much more likable they made Mike compared to the first movie, without actually really changing his personality. I'm seeing Godzilla tonight. Still don't know what time either, but it shouldn't be till late.
With Planet Hulk, Hulk eventually did return to Earth when his planet was attacked, and ended up attacking back and hurting a lot of the Avengers. Obviously a movie wouldn't need to follow that plot exactly, but it's pretty easy to find a reason to bring him back. I agree about the Incredible Hulk. People were still remembering how bad the earlier Hulk movie had been previously, weren't sure about the Marvel train, and the movie itself wasn't one of the better ones. It makes sense that it failed, but I think, though it wouldn't be their most successful film, if they gave Hulk another shot it would work out. I wouldn't worry about knowing about the Fantastic 4 through the previous movies. They were godawful and Mr. Fantastic was actually kind of likable and not a tool in them. As much. It just wasn't a good way to get an idea of what this team is.
Cool, thanks for letting me know. I like your way of looking at it. That's how I wish the world was, that race or sex or gender just didn't matter and people were interchangeable. I don't think we're even close to that point yet, hence a lot of the negative feedback about the situation. I would say Human Torch, at least in present day, doesn't have a 'white culture' that he relates to, so like you said, as long as they don't try to stereotype him into a black cultural background, he should be pretty similar. However, I can't help my cynicism of Hollywood always having to throw a single black character in with a bunch of white characters, in order to not seem racist. Yet they still hardly ever include Hispanic, Asian, Arabic, etc. characters. I feel like it is them just trying to meet a quota, so while the idea of Johnny Storm being black doesn't bother me at all, the reasonings behind it do. Fantastic 4 actually has had other members, including Storm and Black Panther, so it's not like they've been an exclusively white group, though of course Fox wouldn't have rights to Black Panther. It might be interesting to have Storm, but I don't think they're ready to start combining the X-Men and Fantastic 4 yet. First they need to reboot it with classic characters. I'm also still a little seething about my favorite book series being converted into a TV show. The original book had a few white characters, a black character, a couple of Hispanic characters, and a half-Japanese, half-white character in the main group. They made everyone white except for the black guy, so it 'wasn't racist.' Because they met their quota. I'm so sick of race and gender and such having to be a numbers game to make sure you get the maximum amount of white male characters, but include enough women and black people to seem progressive. And though I agree with you that race shouldn't matter at all when defining someone, we're still at a place where it does, especially for minorities, like you said. So while a white character becoming black in an alternate reality doesn't bother me (except for the reasonings behind it), I think it is incredibly wrong to make a person of color white, because persons of color already have so little representation in pop culture, and then you take one of those few representations and throw it into the truckload of white people. And then a person of color is much more likely to have some kind of self-identity involving their race, so you throw that part of the character out the window too. But I digress, I've just started ranting at this point. I guess overall I'm happy for the diversity in the new Fantastic 4 and don't think it will change Johnny's characterization, but bothered by the overall state of racial representation in pop culture and that they needed to change someone's race in the first place to even have that diversity. I wish this could just be a change I shrug my shoulders on, and that race didn't matter at all, but racism and racial segregation is still very much alive, so it's important to see how these things influence general culture and use it to identify and prevent further racism.
I am also interested in how they will play out the siblings though. Looks like their father is black, so either Sue was adopted, there's a genetically unlikely event that happened, or they're half-siblings with different fathers.))
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:09 am
'Is that code for I'm going to have to wait for an explanation? Can we at least answer what we are all doing here at least?' Honda acquiesced begrudgingly.
((Saw Godzilla! There were too many people in it! Heh, but just in case you didn't see it I won't say anything else until you've confirmed you have. Although, I will say that I saw it in 3D because the group was going to a 3D showing, and at least it's come along enough over the years that it doesn't make me ill anymore. However, it also had 0 scenes to justify the 3D, zero! I kept kind of taking the glasses off to see if we were actually in a 3D showing. That was ridiculously annoying just because they charge more for that crap.
Yea I definitely don't think Incredible Hulk was the travesty it was made out to be. Also with all the 'control' talk in Avengers I assumed it was the rampaging monster film but honestly he was pretty good at control and not attacking people who didn't get in his face (and not going back for the vengeance kill even if someone did get in his face). The design of Abomination seemed a bit disappointing, but there was nothing that was such a major flaw that in it's own right I couldn't see them not wanting to give a sequel a shot. Particularly after the success of the character in the Avengers. It definitely is another issue of perception and preconceived bias colouring people from actually judging a film on its own merits.
I will say, in terms of not including other races, African-American so long as it isn't a stereotypical 'poverty/ghetto' culture is very 'white-washed' in a way that Asian, Hispanic and Arabic more often seem to try to retain culture. However, you still get plenty of 'white-wash' and thus 'less defined by cultural background' in those races as well and you can definitely have a cultural neutral casting so I agree. Though atm I think there is also a larger pool of black actors in America than other races thus far (just b/c black has had more success). I do want to see a lot more racially blind casting though, so with Fantastic 4 I'm just more wondering if the movie will make a big deal of it. I definitely think converting ethnic characters to white is a problem, particularly because a lot of the time ethnic characters are defined by particular cultural traits in the ways white characters are not (unless its some sort of Eastern European or Jewish motif). That was definitely the most disappointing part of the Air Bender live action film, I think a lot of flaws in the movie I could have 'let go' if it hadn't been for that. One other thing I thought which connects to the previous remake/using source material discussion, is that Hollywood as an industry is further supporting discrimination within the film industry by almost continually avoiding original content like the plague. Because original content easily does not have assigned race labels, but the audience is still probably the bigger problem. More, that the film industry is catering to audiences rather than taking some risks in this area (casting), the one area that I really think they need to take more risks. The one thing I always keep thinking of is an animated film, the Princess and the Frog. The Prince was originally white and test audiences absolutely threw a fit at the interracial relationship in twenty first century America. They didn't quite make him 'black' but they did make him ethnic to accommodate this. I wish Disney had had the balls to go through with it. I think in the end the movie would have won more acclaim for pushing the barriers, but mostly I'm just furious with the absolute racism of that test audience. And furious at the film industry for catering to it.
It's not even necessarily genetically unlikely, a lot of bad day time TV shows like Maury have taught me that put a white and African American parent together and sometimes you'll get a blend like me and my brother. Still other times you'll get red headed, blue eyed very white offspring or very dark offspring. And in some cases, you will get a mix of both. It happens in other mixes too (I knew a half Japanese girl with blond hair and blue eyes and only found it later that she was actually mixed, I have another friend who is a quarter Japanese and has a few more prominent features like her torso, but generally also looks white). It's just generally pretty common with African Americans specifically as given the atrocities of slave culture (i.e. rape) most of those who have likely descended from slave culture have a lot of genetic mix somewhere in them already. So ideally I'd absolutely love if they give them a white mother and just not talk about it. Because I think the first step toward not having to see people as a race or a gender is to not 'explain' it just for the sake of explaining it. I mean if there is context for why it comes up that's one thing, but so often it comes up for the audience rather than the plot of the movie. I'm kind of tired of movies catering to racism (and other isms).))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:27 pm
"Futata here says that this place is warded against the spirit." Jounouchi frowned, "After all that just happened, we want to keep you guys safe. At least until we regroup and come up with a better plan."
((I saw it too. I was shocked how crowded it was! I knew it was a bigger movie, but it was more crowded than when I saw Cap or Spider-Man, both also opening weekends. Plus it was 10 at night, so we just weren't expecting a full theater. But it was totally full. We stupidly showed up ten minutes before the movie started, and had to sit in the second row to the front to be able to all sit together. Thankfully it wasn't as hard to watch like that as I expected, though at one point my allergies in my right eye flared up, and I had to close it for a minute, and could only see half the screen. XD Thankfully ours wasn't in 3D. Anyway, as for my opinion in the movie, I'll admit it wasn't quite as good as I was expecting, but still enjoyed it. I felt like none of the human characters, even the main ones, had any purpose besides surviving/stopping the monsters. Like I expected Ford to have some kind of sub plot resolution involving his views and relationships with family, since he obviously had mommy and daddy issues, plus there was that scene where he took care of that kid in Hawaii. But in the end he just did the basic reunion with his family and there was nothing else to it. Plus, besides destroying the Muto eggs, the humans didn't really accomplish... like, anything. They pretty much just followed the monsters the whole movie and got killed. Which is cool for a movie that focuses on the monsters or for a movie like Cloverfield, where the humans are desperately trying to survive. But a movie that focuses on the humans as they try to take down the monster? It seemed kind of pointless and unsatisfying. But yeah, other than the lack of character development/purpose, I very much enjoyed it, even though some of the plot devices were hamfisted (Godzilla is here to restore balance!). What did you think?
I think the control was more about Bruce gaining enough control to not transform when angry, rather than the Hulk actually having control in Hulk form. Because he was pretty decent at being a good guy in the former movie. I think Hulk's attitude when out depends on how angry/stressed Bruce was as he transformed. I'd be happy to have a Hulk movie that focuses on the Leader as the villain (how that guy got gamma radiation to his head at the end, that was hinting at the Leader being created), so it wouldn't just be the military attacking or a monster fight in the city, but Hulk and Bruce having to fight against someone infinitely more intelligent than the two of them. So yeah, I'd be stoked for another Hulk movie, but I'd still prefer they do Dr. Strange and Ant-Man first, and if I had to choose a movie focusing on any current characters, it would definitely be a Black Widow or Hawkeye or both movie over another Hulk.
I agree about the white-washing. I think that's why African American is included more than other minorities in movies, because they're easier to portray without a minority culture. It's pretty uncommon these days for people to immigrate from Africa to the US, so most black people here have been here for generations, where's most other minorities still immigrate here regularly. At least things are getting better for black actors. I remember just a few years ago, there were virtually no movies (besides gangster movies) that had a black protagonist that wasn't Will Smith. That's still not common, but I think enough other black actors are becoming prominent enough to change that. I too hope the FF movie doesn't make a big deal of it. Audiences will already be doing that enough for them. That pissed me off so much with the Last Airbender. It wasn't just that they made the Water Tribe white, but that they made the Fire Nation, the 'bad guys,' Indian. While I think it would've been awesome to have a nation based on India in Avatar, since they covered other awesome prominent Asian countries, it bothers me that they did a 'race switch' with the good and bad guys, to make the bad buys darker skinned. That's just... no. That's another good point about original content. When you're taking from old, popular forms of pop culture, they're not as likely to have a large amount of minorities when they are old. This isn't so bad from like modern novels like the Hunger Games, but the Fantastic Four? Yeah, they were pretty white until maybe the 21st century. I can't believe audiences reacted like that to Princess and the Frog. I honestly was happy when I heard both leads were ethnic. I was thinking, "Well, maybe they're just trying to get two ethnicities down with one stone, but at least that means they're not shoving in the mandatory white character." I never considered there might be a problem with interracial romance if a white character were involved. That pisses me off to no end. Did you notice that almost every time there is an interracial (specifically black and white) couple in Hollywood, it's always the woman that's black? That's because people are still afraid of the 'black men taking our white women' thing. Sometimes I wonder if Hollywood just doesn't realize how much audiences have changed, so won't take any risks, but with the Princess and the Frog thing... just wow, I guess they haven't. I'm too used to audiences in less mainstream pop culture. Like I can't remember what game it was, but the company was worried about making the main character female, but tests audiences didn't give two shits. And then Marvel has an ongoing series featuring a Muslim girl, the most prominent Young Avenger is gay, they have tons of LGB (not so much T, unfortunately) characters now, Luke Cage has lead quite a few Avengers teams at this point... I just wish more general audiences could be okay with that.
Huh, I knew it could happen here and there genetically, but did not realize it was that common. It'd be really cool if they were full siblings after all, and that was that. I have known half-Japanese half-white people who looked maybe Spanish or another darker 'white' ethnicity, but never any mixed-race African-Americans who didn't look more black than their other race. Genetics are so interesting.))
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:36 am
'Well I think we've regrouped, unless we are waiting for someone else you haven't mentioned. So when do we start coming up with this better plan?' Honda asked, slightly annoyed by the circular logic and evasion of practical action.
((Yea the theatre was pretty much empty when I saw it, though they had tons of showings of the film and it actually came out Thursday here rather than Friday. Not sure what kind of draw it's having in the UK in general but yea the theatre was probably only about 1/6th full if that. Not that I mind, the one thing that really turns me off about cinema experiences these days are obnoxious crowds. Even with it barely crowded some people came in late and sat behind us and kept chatting at points in the movie which was irritating (and one of them had killer BO which I didn't appreciate either). I'm not sure what I was expecting but I did enjoy it. I definitely felt the human characters, particularly Ford and his wife, were absolutely terrible. I also found it annoying that they've gone the route of what looked like smart kid grew up and started a family at what 20, 22 at the oldest? Given it was 15 years later and the kid was 5. I dunno, I kind of don't love that films feel we can only root for young nuclear families, but my main problem is they were just terrible characters. To be fair, I hadn't thought much about Scarlet Witch or Quicksilver. I mean my entire knowledge of Elisabeth is she's an Olsen sister and she doesn't have much of a filmography. The only thing I know about him is his role in Kickass and while I did really like that I'm now starting to worry about his potential for a heavier role, he didn't really live up to it. At the same time my brain just can't really add more Avengers into the mix right now so I'm not too bothered, but I also am not sure I can see the second film being better than the first now. But yea, I though it was very enjoyable despite the characters being pretty flat. Cranston's character actually wasn't too bad, which I wasn't expecting, but of course didn't impact very long.
Tom explained the Leader thing to me, though I liked Stern so was kind of sad when he told me he was a villain, ah well. I do rather like a lot of villains so perhaps that's no bad thing. I would probably take a Hulk move over either Black Widow or Hawkeye having solo films. I mean personally I just don't care about Hawkeye at all right now, he's done nothing in the film franchise to really warm me to wanting to follow his own solo endeavour and I think it'd take greater effort for me to want to head out and see that than it would have to go see the Hulk had I gotten into the franchise back in 2008. I do really like Black Widow but I think a lot of what I like about her would probably be taken away for me in a film where she's the protagonist, she was quite the heavy in Winter Soldier and that was actually great. Still, I feel like it'd be too much tell rather than show for me with her as the main focus, but hey maybe it'd end up being like Winter Soldier and they don't leave her solo. Guess there is also the query about where her line goes from Winter Soldier, because at the very least I'm going to hate if they do some sort of earlier timeline for the character. I just feel like the more I know about her the less I'll like her, she's one of those characters who just kind of rocks for me because of all the mystery. Dropping tidbits is fun, here's the whole story in one go not so much. Those two are also the least 'superhero' like of the bunch and I feel it'd be more heavily the traditional action movie which doesn't always appeal to me.
There's actually quite a large black refugee culture, back east primarily, as a product of a lot of war torn nations, but they also tend to stay more hidden from mainstream society than other immigrants, stick to their own communities, though that's probably heavily a fear thing and I wouldn't blame them, but yes, it's definitely easier to have African Americans at the very least as just American characters. With Airbender it was a mix of both, not just making the good guys white but making the 'bad' guys ethnic. If they had made everyone white that might have been less obviously offensive if still terrible. Making the bad guys white and the good guys ethnic would have been interesting and less offensive, but I still wish they'd taken advantage of having source material that is entirely ethnic characters and sticking with that. I mean if people weren't going to get all heated about making ethnic characters white I don't have much interest in hearing them b***h about making white characters ethnic. Particularly as Airbender's white actors were all pretty much awful. There's tons of literature on the fact that with Hollywood interracial relationships it's always the women whose ethnic (though it was too much for Princess and Frog) so yes, I've not only noticed I've read about it in detail. As for Princess and Frog, I mean they had the 'rich' girl in the film as white so they still had a shoved in white person, and she did want the prince so I guess it hinted at a possible interracial tie as he was 'ethnic', but she didn't get him. Also, they went with New Orleans culture and still make the rich elite white (b/c that ethnic prince was poor), there was just so many things there that were just disappointing. That film for me became a big blur of stereotypes. I mean Disney has plenty of ethnic characters, what they still have yet to push is letting those ethnic characters mix with each other (exempting Pocahontas which still has representational problems). Progress is so slow, it's quite disappointing.
I don't know how black I look though I definitely don't look white. Usually I've been guessed as Mexican and at times various Asian races because while I have a brown skin colour I have zero black features and most people just don't guess mixed. I had a friend back in school who I had thought was Indian for years until I actually met his black mother and white father. His sister looked black, but he not even close. Even the shade of brown he was didn't look African American it looked Indian Asian. So how common I couldn't statistically say, but it definitely happens and enough that the film doesn't have to make a big deal of it. The black father who couldn't believe he had a red headed blue eyed son, well that is quite the anomaly considering those are all recessive traits but even that managed to happen (and has happened at least a few other times that I'm aware of). There are plenty of 'white' or 'non-racial' dominant traits though (e.g. brown hair and eyes, certain facial structures) so while I think more often skin colour might be a blend it can go either way down the spectrum. I think in studying slavery one of the more interesting things were cases of 'mixed' races and really how you lived came down to your skin colour rather than parentage a lot of the time. Prejudice a lot of the time really is more about how you look more than what you, which is really depressing.
I have TONS of marking to get through over the next few days as well as a conference to attend so might poof for a bit. Shall def be back by Tuesday though, as that's when the marking must be handed back. razz ))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:42 am
Jounouchi hesitated. He really didn't have any idea on what their next course of action should be.
((Oh, that sucks about the people behind you. I hate people like that. I mean, you just payed over ten bucks to sit in here, why are you ruining it for yourselves and others to have a conversation you could've had for free? As for the main characters, I agree that they weren't could characters, though I didn't think their acting was bad. I'm chalking it up more to writing and directing for that, personally. I'm hoping Whedon can make more of them.
Hawkeye is going to have a much bigger role and more character development in Age of Ultron, thankfully. People have already taken pictures of filming scenes that only involve himself and the twins; there's been no other action scenes observed of the other Avengers yet. But anyway, I know I love Hawkeye from the comics, and even though movie Hawkeye was pretty different, I could see enough of comic Hawkeye in him, as well as enough of his own character, to know I like him. I'd rather see a Hawkeye movie after he gets more development in Avengers 2 though. For Black Widow, and mysteries in general, I like the mystery being there and slowly revealing tidbits for a long time, but eventually I prefer to have everything explained. I don't like loose threads, and with the amount of character development she's gotten at this point, I'd be cool with a movie that reveals more. Plus you don't know how much I've been wanting a superhero movie with a female protagonist that isn't awful. I'll never be okay with the fact that Elektra was the first Marvel woman to get her own movie. I absolutely hate Elektra. And the movie didn't do her any favors. But I also love Black Widow/Hawkeye so much as a duo/couple that I would be just as ecstatic if they shared a movie. I also don't generally care for traditional action movies, but if they make it more like Winter Soldier, with covert ops, it could be amazing.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. You learn something new every day. But anyway, with Airbender, that's it exactly. You had one of the few gems, an honestly amazing series with complete ethnic diversity, and you went in and changed the thing that least needed to be changed. The thing that would detract from the series if you changed it. I mean, come on. How did they not think people wouldn't be offended by that? Oh, and trust me, people bitched about the race changes in Airbender too. Probably more than this Human Torch change. The stereotypes in Princess and the Frog were pretty bad, and part of the reason I didn't care for it as much as a lot of other Disneys. For the rich white girl, yes it sucked that she was the richest character and was into the prince, but at the same time at least that has some historical accuracy to go with the stereotypes. I mean, I don't think Princess and the Frog was meant to take place in present day? But anyway, I didn't mention her as a shoved-in white character because I was only thinking about the main characters. There's always a side black character, and that almost means nothing besides meeting the diversity quota. I don't care if there's white characters in an ethnic movie, as long as they're not the main characters, taking that away from the ethnic characters like they always do.
I have a coworker who's black/white mixed and I thought he was Mexican for the longest time. His hair doesn't look like 'black hair,' and he only has the dark skin, none of the facial features. So yeah, I've definitely encountered less-obvious mixed-race persons, but never (to my knowledge) someone who was half-black and looked completely white. Ah, if only people just cared about skin color and racial features for the interest of genetics, and nothing more.
Okay, have fun at your conference!))
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:13 am
Seto watched Jounouchi hesitate and suggested, 'Honda is probably right, I don't think we can come up with a plan until everybody is on the same page. Jounouchi I'm going to check on the translation, I left the laptop in the car. How about you fill everybody in on everything we know thus far while I deal with that?'
((I know right! Olsen didn't have much of a role, and she's slightly less creepy looking than her older sisters (though I don't know if creepy would be so bad for Wanda), but what she did do felt so stale and forced. She is very expressive though, so maybe if they give her more to do and less to say (which would be a good twist for a female Hollywood character anyhow) she'd be okay. I do think guy Kick-a** (nope he doesn't get a real name) has clearly shown potential (such as I thought he did fairly well with Kick-a** though Moretz was always one better) and it did feel a lot like he was thrust into scenes he just didn't belong in. The plot was just very bad about justifying why he'd be in it and it's hard not to seem crappy fighting that. That kid reunion thing, which I didn't respond to last time, yea that could have been so much more. It was a good moment for character development but they decided no. A Godzilla sequel has been announced as well as the fact that it will have the same 'restraint' as the first, aka it will again be human not monster focused. I agreed with comments on the blog post that they should have just called Godzilla M.U.T.O because as far as monster development went they got more of it. I don't have a problem with restrained if they put in a bit more effort to make more interesting human characters this time (or put more focus on the characters that might potentially be interesting).
I don't dislike Hawkeye but yes, he is kind of a non-entity for me at the moment so I definitely can't see wanting a solo Hawkeye film before they flesh him out more. That said, those feelings are probably what delayed my getting into the franchise in the first place anyhow. I had no interest in Iron Man or Captain America prior to actually just giving them a chance (and okay yes Iron Man still fails to do it for me but actually loved Captain America way more than I could ever have imagined based on what little information I had going in) so maybe I just need to roll with what they give me and hope for the best. The first thing that made me think hmm, I'm curious about this Marvel franchise now prior to dating Tom and merging interests was Thor. I've had a long mythology interest so I was curious about a superhero take on a mythological character. However, since Age of Ultron will come out before a new single man will probably be announced I'm hoping it'll give me a bit more to go into a stand alone with. I do think Black Widow is a great character, and while I always 'want to know' but only if knowing doesn't ruin everything, I think part of me also wants a good female movie but doesn't want it just for the sake of wanting a female movie. Which is why I shy against it because I never want to want something for the sake of quotas, because those never end well. I can't imagine anything being as bad as Electra which I only watched last summer while visiting a friend who was watching it. I do think I'd be more in favour of a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie rather than one or the other. I mean Captain America certainly benefited from it even if a share wasn't exactly acknowledged.
They did b***h, I know they did, and there were memes galore highlighting the racist good guy/bad guy colour casting. That didn't change anything though, unlike with the Disney movie where it did. The white girl is a side character but other than the bad guy she's probably the biggest character besides the main pair, there aren't a lot of characters in that. You take out the main side characters in many Disney movies you are really only left with 2 (or you have other characters who are fairly interchangeable), definitely true with the older ones. I hadn't had any interest in the movie and hadn't cared at all about casting (as Disney always puts ethnic with ethnic and white with white and so on) until I found it was actually supposed to be the first interracial push (again other than Pocahontas, which still kind of puts the romance is a second plot in both films, something I like about it even if I'm not a big fan of the sequel), then I was annoyed and depressed. Ah well, it wasn't a very good film.
I've never personally known just known of, although I guess I could personally know and not know that I do. Like my friend who was half Japanese it never occurred to me to ask her what she was because she just looked white so that came up years later. I do know white people who have tanned longer than me but because they look 'odd' they are clearly white people fake and baking whereas I look to natural to be white, even if that leaves people at a loss for what I am. I got my mom's hair as well, although it does annoyingly act like my dads in that it is resistant to products (annoying) and dries in about 30 seconds (useful as I prefer to shower at night). Plus then you get into quarters, like if Tom and I ever go the kid route I'm hoping for brown skin but coloured eyes. We'll have so much white mixed in (and he's blue eyed so he is only rocking the recessive, my mom is green eyed so I'm probably carrying it somewhere) that my odds are probably pretty good on some coloured eyes...although they are also pretty good that it might just end up white with only a quarter (less since my dad already knows he's got a few other things mixed back there) black. You so rarely get brown skin and coloured eyes though, so pretty! My biggest dislike about my features is I'm all one colour, brown brown brown! xd
Left conference early both days because ill, figure might as well have a quick update if I'm going to just sit in bed and stare at the wall. Not a good time for illness!! stressed ))
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 4:37 pm
Jounouchi readily agreed, eager to get to at least the beginnings of a plan. He explained everything as best he could, Sen adding in on occasion, to the others while Kaiba checked on the translation.
((Olsen does have a bit of a weird-looking face, and she never seems to have the right hairstyle to go with it. I think she would look a lot better with curly hair in general, plus that fits better with Wanda's Romani heritage. I agree about Taylor Johnson being thrown in too much. It just felt like he kept chasing monsters and then failing at accomplishing anything. Hopefully it'll work out. I like the idea of focusing more on the human side in a monster movie (that's what I loved about Cloverfield), but the humans need to be... you know, either interesting or relatable in some way that we can be afraid with them.
I do agree that I'd rather not have a Black Widow movie/big revelation if they ruin it, but thus far it sounds like they've been keeping her past pretty close to her comic history, which is both simple and works perfectly for the character. It's not like some big complex back story, but it's still sad and messed up, and gives her a lot to atone for, as well as shows where she got some of her rocky morals. As far as female movies go, for me it's not about fulfilling a quota, but having a means of better and more strongly representing neglected female comic characters, as well as giving women/people who better relate to female characters better representation. I don't want female characters/minorities/etc. added for the sake of a quota, but at the same time, they are extremely underrepresented, and this is because of fear and prejudice. We can't change those kinds of attitudes, among the film industry nor consumers, without pushing for representation. And I mean real representation. Strong, relatable female/black/gay/what have you protagonists who are strong and interesting by being themselves, including the cultural differences that their minority status may bring forth. That's also going back to the Human Torch thing. I don't want representation through taking a 'safe' (non-main; Johnny is probably the least utilized of the Fantastic Four) character and changing their race for the sake of diversity. I want diversity as its own reward. I don't want a movie making the diversity, but the diversity making the movie. I want them to take a wonderful, strong, interesting character of color and give them their own movie, with everything being a person or superhero of color entails. And I want the myriad of unused female superheroes to do the same. If we push for that, then eventually it will become common and accepted, and then there will be no need to diversify for the sake of meeting a quota. Things will just be diverse on their own. But just as important as learning to represent movies with non-white male straight cis leads, is learning to represent movies with everyone else being equal to those non-white straight cis men. So I would be equally stoked for a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie, because I am at least 80% certain they would focus on the two equally, instead of just making Natasha the 'love interest.'
That's true. Only privileged voices are heard about changing things regarding race. That's just terrible. Speaking of Pocahontas, I hated the second movie. I know it was slightly more historically accurate, but I hated that it was about integrating a Native American into European culture... so she could die of smallpox or whatever. The first movie's message may've been hamfisted, but at least it made a point that what Europeans did to native North Americans was wrong and that it's not wrong for Pocahontas to value her land, life, and culture over a love interest she just met, where's the second one... oh, no, we're just going to make her go to Europe too. I prefer the hamfisted, not historically accurate version. I didn't like the change in romantic interests either, not because of moral objections, but just because I thought the new guy was totally undeveloped and uninteresting. XD
Ugh, I hate how white people who have over-tanned look. It's just gross and leathery... not to mention unhealthy. I KNOW WE ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET SKIN CANCER BECAUSE OF OUR LACK OF MELANIN BUT THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SUNSCREEN. Haha, my hair takes like three hours to dry when it's long, one when it's short. That'd be awesome if it did in thirty seconds. I agree, I absolutely adore how dark-skinned people look with colored eyes. Especially like hazel or yellow. That would be kind oh meh having all three attributes being brown. At least you can dye your hair or wear contacts. I'm not particularly attached to my skin tone (though I'm happy that as pale as I am, I have more of an olive tint than that ugly pinkish pig tone that so many white people have), but am happy I don't have blonde hair or brown eyes. That's probably my least favorite combination right there, pinkish white skin, blonde hair, and brown eyes. I'd prefer green or hazel eyes, but I'll be happy with my blue, and I'm ecstatic my hair's not like mousey brown and instead is almost black. XD;;
Oh man, so sorry to hear you got sick! That really sucks. I hope it doesn't mess with any of your school/career plans.
By the way, I know your sick, but did you end up seeing X-Men yet?))
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