Bible Questions

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Hizuma the Troublesome

Ahh, here it is.....

Jesus. Son of Man, yet named Emmanual*sp*(God with Us)
Jesus is flesh and blood, no?
Yet he performed miracles of healing, deliverance, and paved the way for our salvation.
Could it not be that Jesus was but the flesh and blood clothes of the One True God?
Reasoning: There are two.
One: God is a Spirit. Spirits, by definition, are incorpreal, meaning they are not physical. To perform these works and set the plan of Salvation in motion he would need a corporeal body. Bringing me to.....
Two: Sacrifices in the Bible, Old Testament, were pure lambs, without spot or blemish. These were brough bu priests to the altar for execution, in order to push back sins for another year, because before Jesus there was no salvation plan. In order to save us completely, a pure sacrificial Lamb was needed. And because the Word says: All men have sinned, and come short of the Glory of God, no man existed.
Therefore, God organized the conception of Jesus.

Now, I already see the argument forming. To stave it off:
Jesus was Man. He had his own soul, own mind, own body. He was a normal human.
But he was also Emmanual, God with Us. As God he did things no human can accomplish, such as healing the sick, walking on water, raising the dead, and casting out of demons.
He says he is not equal to God, because Flesh and blood can never be equal to God. But he also says "He who has seen me has seen the Father"

Again. Not wanting to step on anyone's toes. I respect beliefs, but I also present my view of things. So if need be, I will shut up now.

...

Hizuma....

Perhaps we're not understanding each other. As I read what you say...I don't really find myself disagreeing. There is only one God. Jesus is said God.

..

What on earth are we disagreeing over, exactly? Do you think I believe in three gods?
 

[Shadows-shine]

I am not going to throw myself into this debate, but I will say, for some people when you say God is triune, it does cause confusion, because the prefix tri means three. So therefore it's not truly one.



I am not going to go into any more details though. I don't feel like debating the trinity. I don't think it's correct doctrine and I don't believe God is a trinity God or that all three of the members of the God are three persons one God. I believe them to be three separate and distinct beings...I will say no more...


Anyways...sorry, I had to throw this tid bit in here! sweatdrop  

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

I believe it started with the "Plural of Majesty" comment, then proceded from there.

And that is typically what Trinitarians believe.
I believe there is One God, period. Not three, not three sets of three, as I recieved today (Benny hinn burning_eyes )
And not schitzo, as in having three personalities. But one in every sense of the word.  

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Hizuma the Troublesome

I believe it started with the "Plural of Majesty" comment, then proceded from there.

And that is typically what Trinitarians believe.
I believe there is One God, period. Not three, not three sets of three, as I recieved today (Benny hinn burning_eyes )
And not schitzo, as in having three personalities. But one in every sense of the word.

There is one God.
Trinitarians believe there is one God.
Guess I've done a poor job of explaining.
 

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

I think I am doing a poor job of explaining as well.
God is God.
Father in creation, Son in salvation, Holy Spirit working in and through us today. But these are NOT separate facets, these are all the Same, One God.

Simply put: I believe there is no distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. All three are one God.

 

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Hizuma the Troublesome

I think I am doing a poor job of explaining as well.
God is God.
Father in creation, Son in salvation, Holy Spirit working in and through us today. But these are NOT separate facets, these are all the Same, One God.

Simply put: I believe there is no distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. All three are one God.

>.>
<.<

So...how does the Father speak to the Son? Is God in two places at once?

...Hmm...I suppose that makes sense. God is everywhere, right?
 

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

Yes, God is Omnipresent.

*SuperspecialawesomeEDIT*

I gues i could have answered your question better. I assume when you're speaking of Father talkin to the Son you're thinking of the Garden of Gethsemane. If that is....

We must remember that Jesus is Fully God and Fully Human. When he prays, he is praying as you or I would to God. For example, I recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost over a year ago, allowng God to work in my life and through me. But even with God in me, I still pray to him.
Hope it makes sense.
 

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Hizuma the Troublesome

Yes, God is Omnipresent.

*SuperspecialawesomeEDIT*

I gues i could have answered your question better. I assume when you're speaking of Father talkin to the Son you're thinking of the Garden of Gethsemane. If that is....

We must remember that Jesus is Fully God and Fully Human. When he prays, he is praying as you or I would to God. For example, I recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost over a year ago, allowng God to work in my life and through me. But even with God in me, I still pray to him.
Hope it makes sense.

He is praying to the Father.
So He is praying to Himself?
How can that be unless the Father and Son are distinct beings?

Consider when Jesus is baptized. Does not the Holy Spirit come, in the form of a dove, upon Jesus? And does not the Father say "this is my dearly loved Son"?
 

[Corporal Maladict]

How does God feel about Transsexuals? Is there anything about that in the Bible?

I live in Finland and recently we had news where a man who was a vicar had undergone surgery to become a woman, and because his congrecation would not accept his new identity, he gave up his job as vicar.

Personally I think he probably picked the wrong job to become a priest in the first place, and it makes me wonder if he actually set out to shock people as much as possible, which is not a good way to serve any cause, either that of gay people or that of God. In Finland it is possible for women to become priests in the Lutheran church.

But I'm not asking you about transsexual priests, I'm asking about transsexuals as churchgoers. What would you think if a man entered your church wearing a dress and high heels? Would you ask him to leave?

Would your attitude be different if it was a former man who had undergone surgery to become just like a woman, and the surgery had been successful so that you'd only know she was not born a woman because you knew the person and knew what she was? In this case the person's appearance would not cause a disturbance in the worship in any way, strangers would just think it was a woman. She would be wearing clothes appropriate for a woman in church.

And what about the other way round? What if there was in your church a girl who dressed in boys' clothes? Or a woman who had undergone surgery and become a man?

I know this is very far-fetched because transsexual people are seldom religious. I do know most churches preach against any form of sexuality that isn't heterosexual monogamy.

And I would think that the logic in it would be that we should be happy with the bodies God gave us.

But consider this possibility: a man is a transsexual and has surgery to become a woman. Many years after having lived the life of a woman, she finds Jesus as her savior. So she goes to church.

What should the people in the church do, should such a thing ever happen? Tell her to get the surgery undone? What is there is some medical reason that makes that impossible?

I know... I know. It's very farfetched.

I'm not here to troll or cause argument. I am at a time in life where I am making choices.

Something sent me here.

Perhaps I should just leave?

I am the girl in boy clothes.  

[rosadria]

Corporal Maladict

How does God feel about Transsexuals? Is there anything about that in the Bible?

I don't know. I haven't seen any verses that address this issue specifically, nor have I studied the ones that could probably be used in this context as well as I have, for this situation. I can say that He does love them, as He does all. That much is clear, at least. However, with that said, God loves everyone, sinner and saint alike.
I've struggled with this question. Does the physical body determine characteristics of the soul? If I, a male, were to change my gender, would it be considered homosexual, by God, to join myself to a man? After all, it's His opinion that matters, not that of man. Not a clue, either way.

Quote:

Personally I think he probably picked the wrong job to become a priest in the first place

I suspect you are probably right.

Quote:

In Finland it is possible for women to become priests in the Lutheran church.

That's true in many churches, and for a reason. Scripture sets up who is allowed to have what offices in the church, though again I have no idea how a gender changing operation fits in with that. As a general rule, it's best to follow the Biblical pattern, so if I were him, I'd take the safest course of action there.

Quote:

But I'm not asking you about transsexual priests, I'm asking about transsexuals as churchgoers. What would you think if a man entered your church wearing a dress and high heels? Would you ask him to leave?

Fair enough!
I'll be honest with you. I'd be uncomfortable with it. However, I would not ask him to leave. There's a saying that goes "If you ever find the perfect church, don't join it 'cause you'd just mess it up." He, as much as anyone else, belongs in the church. There are Biblical standards for removing a brother from the assembly, but I don't think wearing a dress counts.

Quote:

Would your attitude be different if it was a former man who had undergone surgery to become just like a woman, and the surgery had been successful so that you'd only know she was not born a woman because you knew the person and knew what she was? In this case the person's appearance would not cause a disturbance in the worship in any way, strangers would just think it was a woman. She would be wearing clothes appropriate for a woman in church.

If we don't know, there wouldn't a problem either way. Sometimes things can be kept between man and God. I'd think that it would make people uncomfortable, but I would like to think that my church would conduct itself in a Godly manner.

Quote:

And what about the other way round? What if there was in your church a girl who dressed in boys' clothes? Or a woman who had undergone surgery and become a man?

That happens much more commonly. Even my fiancé has been known to show up in jeans and a tshirt. I don't care if she does or not. Nobody really does. It's not socially acceptable for Sunday morning services, but the rest of the time, nobody cares. Same deal about this surgery as the other one.

Quote:

I know this is very far-fetched because transsexual people are seldom religious. I do know most churches preach against any form of sexuality that isn't heterosexual monogamy.

And I would think that the logic in it would be that we should be happy with the bodies God gave us.

There's a reason we teach that, too.

God made you as He sought fit. Whatever you struggle with is in His hands, and He will provide you with what you need. Remember when Abraham decided to take matters into his own hands and married his maid? The child they had became the father of the Arab race, while the child with Sarah became the father of the Jewish race. To this day, their is strife between them, as was prophesied back in Genesis.

Quote:

What should the people in the church do, should such a thing ever happen? Tell her to get the surgery undone? What is there is some medical reason that makes that impossible?

Love her as you would any other member of the body of Christ. One's past does not disqualify one for membership in the church, from murders to child molesters to transsexuals.



You don't have to leave. Things can get heated, for sure, but there are some Christians here. You can take comfort in that.  

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Do not leave, Maladict. You are welcome here. Brother VK has given you some good stuff, but I would like to add my thoughts too if that's all right. Feel free to ignore them.

There is nothing about transsexuals in the Bible, that I have found. There is information about homosexuality, but that can be totally different. I think we first need to separate transsexuals from homosexuals. They're not interchangeable. Some homosexuals may also be transsexuals, but that isn't always the case.

To be sure, God loves transsexuals. He loves all, whether they blaspheme His name or not. They are precious to Him.

I would agree that he probably chose the wrong job. Then again, perhaps he was called. I don't think any priest, pastor, bishop, or what have you should EVER get into that field unless they are called by God. They should ask God for discernment and guidance, to make sure it is coming from Him. I did that for a whole year before I finally accepted my calling from God.

If a man entered the church I was at wearing a dress and high heels--I might be a little shocked at first. But I'd probably say hello to him and hug him tightly, if he'd let me. Because God loves him, and so do I. And it doesn't matter if a person comes in dressed in rags. He or she is at church. You do not shoo people or push them away because of what they're dressed in. It horrifies me to know that there are many churches who would probably throw him out.

Anyone should be allowed to enter a church. As long as they are respectful and do not cause problems, which some people do and they need to be escorted out, they should be able to come. Because it is not our house. It is God's house. And all who come to the Lord, truly come to the Lord, are welcome in His house.

I tend to dress more in masculine styles anyway. I prefer cargos over skirts, for example. I'm sure there are churches which, upon seeing me, would bar the door because I wasn't wearing a skirt or a dress, despite the fact that I'm a student of theology and ministry. Lol.

You can't get a surgery like that undone. She needs to live with it. God isn't going to condemn her for such a thing, not if she comes to accept Christ. Our slate is wiped clean in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It's not necessarily far fetched at all. It's a good, honest question, and I hope we were able to shed some light on it for you.
 

[Corporal Maladict]

Thank you! You have been very helpful.

I have another question, different issue entirely. I was wondering, if people who believe in Jesus go to heaven, what happens to people who never heard of Jesus? Who were raised in some other religion and never met missionaries? Or people who lived before Jesus' time?  

[Fighting Fefnir]

Maybe I can help you out on this one.

There tend to be two schools of thought on this matter, one being represented by Paul who says that man, in his conscience and in the wonder of the world around him, should see God, and that there is no excuse. This is often taken to mean one of several things things. First, that as long as one acts to the best of his ability and is a good man, he has honored God and will be accepted; second, that those who worship other Gods with true intent to please said Gods will be accepted for their belief; third, that those who have not heard of Jesus do not have an excuse for not following God, and thereby are condemned.

A second concept that often comes into play is the thought that those who are unaware of Jesus and the Bible are like young children when they die. They didn't have the knowledge to make a choice about following Jesus, and so they are excused for it. This line of thinking also gives rise to the 'live a good life' understanding of morality. The Catholic Church is notable as a supporter of this view

You should probably check with a preacher in your denomination to see what your specific group believes about such things.

Now, for the last question, about those before Jesus' time, it's rather difficult to answer, because we can't account for the three days Jesus was 'dead'. Many groups think that when Jesus died on the cross, he descended into Hell and brought out those faithful people from before his time. However, this seems to be more of a traditional thing, to my knowledge, rather than a biblical concept. Again, I suggest talking to your preacher about it.  

[Corporal Maladict]

I've never heard before that young children would automatically go to heaven... maybe because I'm not Catholic.

Thanks for replying.  

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

Scarlet_Teardrops

Hizuma the Troublesome

Yes, God is Omnipresent.

*SuperspecialawesomeEDIT*

I gues i could have answered your question better. I assume when you're speaking of Father talkin to the Son you're thinking of the Garden of Gethsemane. If that is....

We must remember that Jesus is Fully God and Fully Human. When he prays, he is praying as you or I would to God. For example, I recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost over a year ago, allowng God to work in my life and through me. But even with God in me, I still pray to him.
Hope it makes sense.

He is praying to the Father.
So He is praying to Himself?
How can that be unless the Father and Son are distinct beings?

Consider when Jesus is baptized. Does not the Holy Spirit come, in the form of a dove, upon Jesus? And does not the Father say "this is my dearly loved Son"?

I just remembered I was debating in here -_-

So...is it too late for me to answer this? sweatdrop