Atheism and politics.

[Matataur]

I'm eighteen, I live in America, and I'm an atheist. This means I'll be able to vote for the next president of the United States in 2008. I'll have to sort through all of the bombastic opinion-driven media and find the facts in order to make a well informed and well reasoned decision come november.

This is a big concern for me because the media and the government played a big role in shaping me into the athiest I am today.

I spent my middle-school and high school years with George Bush, and I watched him as he followed God's instructions into Iraq and his first veto against stem-cell reasearch. I watched Fred Phelps and his brainwashed children tell grieving families of dead soldiers that "God Hates Fags". I even got to see a freaking dinosaur with a saddle courtesy of the folks from Answers in Genesis. All of you saw this too, maybe even grew up with all of it as Church and State dangerously comingled.


As an atheist, do I have responsibilities to try to change things like this? And if so, how can I tackle something as huge as religion and the government?


EDIT: I apologize for the generalizations, incoherence, and bad grammar in this post. It was written at 1 AM.  

[Theophrastus]

Yes you do.

Here's my post from another forum.

Theophrastus

It's tough, but as per a discussion I had in the chat room, I don't expect a magic bullet of a candidate to come and accomplish everything I want in one swoop. So, were I to get my 'druthers come 2008, here are the issues I'd support and why.

Privacy - defeating the current ease with which a few well-appointed cronies and a their coke-snorting yes-man leader can push into reality the monitoring programs, detainment practices and complete ******** of habeas corpus, civilian respect and human rights that have so dreadfully stained our country's reputation of freedom, liberty and justice. It's a wonder anyone wants to immigrate to this country, considering that in other places the individual may be ignored but here all people are treated as murderous, insane terrorists until proven innocent.

Stem Cell Research - I am 100% in support of this amazing new field which has given us, in a few short years, more insight into human growth and development than all the science behind it. While I would demand that all stem cell matter be ethically procured, I am appalled that someone who believes that a clump of undeveloped fetal cells has a greater right to live than someone with brown skin half a world away who clings to equally spurious superstitions as those fighting them.

Abortion - the same issue is at hand. We must realize that it is far more important to feed the children and adults who are already here in our country, starving to death, dying from diseases that could be cured by a $15 inoculation and living lives of uneducated criminality than it is to freak the ******** out over what may end up being miscarried anyway. There is no moral ground to defend a few unique cells over a whole, living, present human being.

Religion, namely the separation of Church and State actually being enforced - masks, doublespeak and thin veneers of coexistence cannot, for an instant, change my mind to the fact that Jefferson, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt along with countless other admirable human beings held as this country's highest virtue freedom from religious persecution. Whether it comes from a Baptist or a Naturalist, no person or group has the right to enforce, condone or harass the personal practices of the individual. My money, given willingly to my leadership, should go towards goals we all can agree on, such as strong health care, healthy infrastructures, the standardization of penal systems and the improvement of public education.

I believe that if these steps are taken now, in 2012 we Americans can sigh in relief as we finally recover from the damage done to us by the last eight years. At that point we can look forward to real, meaningful action such as reforms of the constitution and thorough scourings of all three branches of the executive administration to better return power to the hands of the people.

 

[Dathu]

I'm very cynical and apathetic about politics. I don' really feel I have much control when I'm asked to choose between two candidates who equally suck. That is of course, if you believe that the president still has any real power, when you consider the role of congress. And of course, there are the behind-the-scenes men and women who really call the shots. But that's more consiracy-theory than anything. I chalk politics up to "The Illusion of Control, that keeps the masses quiet." People don't rebel as much when they are told they made the bad choice. I could ramble on, but I won't.  

[Matataur]

Theophrastus

Yes you do.

Here's my post from another forum.

Theophrastus

It's tough, but as per a discussion I had in the chat room, I don't expect a magic bullet of a candidate to come and accomplish everything I want in one swoop. So, were I to get my 'druthers come 2008, here are the issues I'd support and why.

Privacy - defeating the current ease with which a few well-appointed cronies and a their coke-snorting yes-man leader can push into reality the monitoring programs, detainment practices and complete ******** of habeas corpus, civilian respect and human rights that have so dreadfully stained our country's reputation of freedom, liberty and justice. It's a wonder anyone wants to immigrate to this country, considering that in other places the individual may be ignored but here all people are treated as murderous, insane terrorists until proven innocent.

Stem Cell Research - I am 100% in support of this amazing new field which has given us, in a few short years, more insight into human growth and development than all the science behind it. While I would demand that all stem cell matter be ethically procured, I am appalled that someone who believes that a clump of undeveloped fetal cells has a greater right to live than someone with brown skin half a world away who clings to equally spurious superstitions as those fighting them.

Abortion - the same issue is at hand. We must realize that it is far more important to feed the children and adults who are already here in our country, starving to death, dying from diseases that could be cured by a $15 inoculation and living lives of uneducated criminality than it is to freak the ******** out over what may end up being miscarried anyway. There is no moral ground to defend a few unique cells over a whole, living, present human being.

Religion, namely the separation of Church and State actually being enforced - masks, doublespeak and thin veneers of coexistence cannot, for an instant, change my mind to the fact that Jefferson, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt along with countless other admirable human beings held as this country's highest virtue freedom from religious persecution. Whether it comes from a Baptist or a Naturalist, no person or group has the right to enforce, condone or harass the personal practices of the individual. My money, given willingly to my leadership, should go towards goals we all can agree on, such as strong health care, healthy infrastructures, the standardization of penal systems and the improvement of public education.

I believe that if these steps are taken now, in 2012 we Americans can sigh in relief as we finally recover from the damage done to us by the last eight years. At that point we can look forward to real, meaningful action such as reforms of the constitution and thorough scourings of all three branches of the executive administration to better return power to the hands of the people.

Okay, I agree with your viewpoint, but I don't quite understand how exactly I act upon things like these. Casting a vote for one guy over the other and paying my taxes doesn't seem good enough.  

[Missle59]

Well you could always vote for who supports all of these things. If there isn't one (which is very likely) then unfortunately its a choice of the lesser of two evils. Even after I said this though I don't actually think as an atheist voting really matters much. With 80% percent of the country being a born-again idiot any candidate that violates the separation of church and state will most likely get the presidency. Also don't stop paying taxes if your not rich. You do that and IRS will be after you in a heart beat.

Quote:

I'm very cynical and apathetic about politics. I don' really feel I have much control when I'm asked to choose between two candidates who equally suck. That is of course, if you believe that the president still has any real power, when you consider the role of congress. And of course, there are the behind-the-scenes men and women who really call the shots. But that's more consiracy-theory than anything. I chalk politics up to "The Illusion of Control, that keeps the masses quiet." People don't rebel as much when they are told they made the bad choice. I could ramble on, but I won't.

Of course the president has power. There are people who back him by finance and propaganda, but they do not have outright control of his actions. No instead he has to much power and is acting on his own accord. Which I think is even worse than if he were a puppet. Bush has taken power away from congress and congress seems to not care at all. The supreme court won't do anything they are all republican and anything he does goes for them.  

[Matataur]

Missle59

Well you could always vote for who supports all of these things. If there isn't one (which is very likely) then unfortunately its a choice of the lesser of two evils. Even after I said this though I don't actually think as an atheist voting really matters much. With 80% percent of the country being a born-again idiot any candidate that violates the separation of church and state will most likely get the presidency. Also don't stop paying taxes if your not rich. You do that and IRS will be after you in a heart beat.

But as an atheist I should be doing something precisely because of the insignificance of my vote. I mean, it's too darn depressing thinking that I can't do anything, so why even bother?  

[Theophrastus]

Matataur

Missle59

Well you could always vote for who supports all of these things. If there isn't one (which is very likely) then unfortunately its a choice of the lesser of two evils. Even after I said this though I don't actually think as an atheist voting really matters much. With 80% percent of the country being a born-again idiot any candidate that violates the separation of church and state will most likely get the presidency. Also don't stop paying taxes if your not rich. You do that and IRS will be after you in a heart beat.

But as an atheist I should be doing something precisely because of the insignificance of my vote. I mean, it's too darn depressing thinking that I can't do anything, so why even bother?

At the risk of sounding smug, here are my responses from another threat at Atheistnation.net where we were presented with four questions. These are the things I do to change to social perception of Atheism so more Atheists will be comfortable "coming out."

Christians hide from debating us because they know their religion (as well as any other religion) can't stand up to our scrutiny. If we change the perceptions of Atheists as bad, immoral people and work as well to make clear how silly religious superstition can be, then the social climate will change and allow politicians who better fit our Humanist goals to come forth and gain popularity.

Theophrastus

1. How can the label "atheist" be changed from a bad, derisive label to an acceptable one?

We have to get out there, do good things, be good people and be proud of our Atheism. Let the label be worn with pride.

2. How can a middle ground for discussion between theists and atheists be reached?

Debate. Debate your mother, pastor, your neighbor, your dog. Open up the ******** dialogue. Until we show that we have guts enough to step up, the religious have no reason to feel inadequate. We need to make our challenge clear and basically say, "What, scared to fight? Then I guess that makes you a chicken."

3. How can the social taboo against criticizing and debating religion be lifted?

See the two above.

4. (This is the big one) What can be done to create a positive social force for change in America, to encourage closet atheists to step up and "come out", to strictly enforce the separation of church and state, to return to the government that the founding fathers intended, to foster acceptance of the non-believer or atheistic world view, and to prevent a return to iron-age ideals?

Again, do good things, public works, and talk about your Atheism as often as you comfortably can. There are so many Atheists and agnostics out there but they're always scared to speak up. Everyone with whom I work knows I'm an Atheist and I ask them to question me on it any time they want. And, despite workplace laws, they do. We have to get the word out and make it a topic. Get a bumper sticker, get a shirt, make donations or do charity

 

[Cirosan]

Theophrastus

Again, do good things, public works, and talk about your Atheism as often as you comfortably can. There are so many Atheists and agnostics out there but they're always scared to speak up. Everyone with whom I work knows I'm an Atheist and I ask them to question me on it any time they want. And, despite workplace laws, they do. We have to get the word out and make it a topic. Get a bumper sticker, get a shirt, make donations or do charity

Ah, but therein lies the problem. How can one reach a good balance of Atheist discussion? How could they integrate it in conversation without being awkward? Too much, and it appears to look like one is flaunting their lack of religion. Too little, and the problem persists. So I ask you: How can one properly introduce and encourage others to discuss Atheism properly?

Not that I'm challenging your view, rather, it's spot on, but I want to see how you think we can do this appropriately.  

[Theophrastus]

Cirosan

Theophrastus

Again, do good things, public works, and talk about your Atheism as often as you comfortably can. There are so many Atheists and agnostics out there but they're always scared to speak up. Everyone with whom I work knows I'm an Atheist and I ask them to question me on it any time they want. And, despite workplace laws, they do. We have to get the word out and make it a topic. Get a bumper sticker, get a shirt, make donations or do charity

Ah, but therein lies the problem. How can one reach a good balance of Atheist discussion? How could they integrate it in conversation without being awkward? Too much, and it appears to look like one is flaunting their lack of religion. Too little, and the problem persists. So I ask you: How can one properly introduce and encourage others to discuss Atheism properly?

Not that I'm challenging your view, rather, it's spot on, but I want to see how you think we can do this appropriately.

Clothing is always nice. Also, I work on computers with my co-workers and we're online so I watch videos, browse sites about it (with my boss's okay) and let them discover it. That's usually all it takes. Also, just listen for opportunities.

My girlfriend's mom was discussing how hypocritical our leadership has been and how they must be lying about being Christians. I responded with, "And yet those same people claim that Atheists mustn't be moral, since they have no religious absolutes. If fear of torture is the only reason one would be a good person I'd bet they're not a good person at all."

She earnestly agreed and we had a little connection. Just listen and be calm, passive, even. But if challenged, of course, go wild. XD  

[Missle59]

Well its true you should do something. I agree with everything that has been said before this post. I would quote it, but there is to much there to quote it all.

I think we should try our hardest to promote a positive understanding of atheism. It doesn't have to be that difficult either. By simply never committing a crime you show that you do have morals. (Not to sure about this one, but it sounds right when I post this now.) Or a more active role instead of a passive one. Start a website, post fliers, do a podcast, or write letters to the editor. For an even more direct approach go straight to the source, so to speak. Find theist podcasts and do an interview and go to a church and during appropriate times explain why we aren't baby eaters. The last two I would say approach with caution. Listen to the podcasts first to decide if they would mind or not the interview. Also talking to the preacher ahead of time may help as well. Make sure its not a fanatical church.

Above all don't give up. It may take a long time to get enough people to understand. I think it is the Buddhists who say "the road to enlightenment is a long and windy path".  

[Meirelle]

Vote Democrat. 4laugh