The Music of Illuvatar

[jordan wtf]

This was actually a question of my boyfriend's (who doesn't come to Gaia, or else I would harass him to join to ask himself), and it seems a bit pointless to ask right now as he is on vacation still until Saturday/Sunday, but hopefully I will remember to tell him any responses I get. I haven't actually finished the Sil yet, so I don't know why he asked me, but that's another story.

Anyway, he basically wants to know what purpose Illuvatar had in making the Great Music, and if it was something that he just started doing on the spot, or what.

Daniel thinks it was very random and without a clear reason why. Any opinions, theories, or ideas would be helpful, since he isn't a "take things for how they are" type person.  

[Onoj]

I am not sure I understand the question.
He made the music and he wanted creation in his nothingness. The music was strung so that each chord and note represented something he wanted to be. As the music was sang it was as if telling in their words the line of time. It was like "Let these things be" only instead of saying what would become the music told the tale.  

[SYFFER]

Well it's a bit of an odd question but I think I understand what you mean. Personally, I think Illuvatar simply wanted to create. If you were the only being in existence wouldn't you want something to keep you busy while you spend endless time in emptiness? sweatdrop  

[Rhaella]

Tough, but very interesting, question.

No matter what mythology you look at, you'll always find some version of a Creation story, in which something comes out of nothing. Tolkien's simply involves music, and it's an aspect that stays strong later in the mythos, when you consider the power of music demonstrated by Luthien, Finrod, and Sauron. Then there are the Elvish minstrels that Aragorn describes in the LotR Appendices, "who can make the things of which they sing appear before the eyes of those that listen."

Then there is the power of Ulmo, who was most instructed in music. His domain, water has ever been unpolluted by Melkor.

Perhaps you are wondering why it was music that Iluvatar created, instead of some other form of expression. Perhaps he could have painted an image of the world instead of expressed it through music?

I suspect that it was a matter of personal aesthetic preference; though unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the Letters to suggest this or anything else. In many different mythologies, music plays an important part. There's the other fact that music and poetry tend to be the most common instrument through which the memory of those myths are brought into the present day.

Therefore, I think that considering how important music has been in the conserving of mythology, it was quite appropriate to use it to explain the origins of this particular mythos.  

[jordan wtf]

SYFFER

Well it's a bit of an odd question but I think I understand what you mean. Personally, I think Illuvatar simply wanted to create. If you were the only being in existence wouldn't you want something to keep you busy while you spend endless time in emptiness? sweatdrop

Well, my boyfriend is an odd person. 3nodding After posting the question, I came up with the same theory. Through, I'm not sure if he would accept that answer since he always thinks there is a reason behind everything that goes deeper than simply "Illuvatar just wanted to create".  

[jordan wtf]

Lindelea

Tough, but very interesting, question.

No matter what mythology you look at, you'll always find some version of a Creation story, in which something comes out of nothing. Tolkien's simply involves music, and it's an aspect that stays strong later in the mythos, when you consider the power of music demonstrated by Luthien, Finrod, and Sauron. Then there are the Elvish minstrels that Aragorn describes in the LotR Appendices, "who can make the things of which they sing appear before the eyes of those that listen."

Then there is the power of Ulmo, who was most instructed in music. His domain, water has ever been unpolluted by Melkor.

Perhaps you are wondering why it was music that Iluvatar created, instead of some other form of expression. Perhaps he could have painted an image of the world instead of expressed it through music?

I suspect that it was a matter of personal aesthetic preference; though unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the Letters to suggest this or anything else. In many different mythologies, music plays an important part. There's the other fact that music and poetry tend to be the most common instrument through which the memory of those myths are brought into the present day.

Therefore, I think that considering how important music has been in the conserving of mythology, it was quite appropriate to use it to explain the origins of this particular mythos.

No, I wasn't wondering why it was music itself, instead of something else. At least I'm not (I happen to agree that music makes the most sense for Illuvatar to use), but then again it was my boyfriend's question and I can't ask him if that's what he wanted to know or not, until tomorrow.

I believe he was just questioning the "something out of nothing" concept, thinking that there should be something more than that. Thanks for your input though. (:  

[Onoj]

Oh now I get it. I believe it was simply because he wanted to create and it is simple as that. I know that isn't what your BF thinks but here is how I explain it. He wanted to create because he had the power to and he wanted something to love.

I am a male and I have the power to procreate and have children. True I need a female to accomplish this but lets just throw that aside. I have the power to have a child and the power to create and I want to have a child because I don't want to be alone. I want to have something that is mine and that I can love more than anything else.

So basically Illuvatar had the power to create his children and the world so he could be with them and watch them grow and he could love them. He was and is the father of Middle Earth in a human sense. Also if you want to think of it like this Illuvatar was the proverbial "male" and the Valar were the proverbial "females". He gave the input and basically what would be and they carried out the other half of the task and actually created his thought.

Does that make sense?  

[Rhaella]

Sounding a tad bit chauvinist, Onoj. xd  

[Onoj]

Lindelea

Sounding a tad bit chauvinist, Onoj. xd

haha. That isn't how I meant to imply it sorry.
I was just trying to adapt it but I couldn't do it too well seeing as how I don't have the power to create without a female. I actually really like women and am in a women empowerment group trying to get women back into the work force instead of thinking they have to be in a kitchen. Sorry my words implied otherwise. sweatdrop  

[SYFFER]

Onoj

Lindelea

Sounding a tad bit chauvinist, Onoj. xd

haha. That isn't how I meant to imply it sorry.
I was just trying to adapt it but I couldn't do it too well seeing as how I don't have the power to create without a female. I actually really like women and am in a women empowerment group trying to get women back into the work force instead of thinking they have to be in a kitchen. Sorry my words implied otherwise. sweatdrop

That's inspiring onoj 3nodding .

Just a thought, I wonder if Illuvatar was a Hermaphodite considering he managed to create life all by himself whee  

[Feathoron]

Iluvatar (one "l") used music for a couple of different reasons, mostly from Tolkien's view, actually.

Music was a wonderful metaphor of Iluvatar taking Melkor's good and making something even better out of it, just as he used Melkor's discord to create a harmony that was even more tantalizing than the first.

Secondly, as Lindelea said, Tolkien used music often in his works, so it is believed that it was a large impact upon him.

Thirdly, music is, again, as it was said, "Something out of nothing", but more than that, it is something beautiful and unique out of nothing, just as Arda turned out to be.  

[Elainya]

Going along with Onoj's answer, I think I'll use a more unisexual metaphore. This was actually a study in my church a few weeks ago, but it works for the same purpose. You're an artist with a blank canvas, a pencil, and an infinate imagination. You can draw anything you want, erase it, and create it over again. You care for your drawing, because it is yours. Therefore, if something doesn't look right to you, you can erase and re-create it.

In having the first music, Eru is in a sense composing a piece of music similar to your blank canvas that you're drawing on. He starts with nothing. He creates (or draws) some key players. Then, he instructs them (Or, draws them doing an action) to sing. They go about this set task, and because they're his creations doing as he wishes them, create a world within his limitations, that contains everything beautiful and sacred. However, once he introduces free will, they can chose to follow him or not.

I think that Eru chose to have music as the catalyst of creation because music is a very individual thing, even in a chorus. Some people interprete the notes slightly differently, and crecendo or decrecendo at different times and ratios. Or, someone might have a slightly quieter version of pianissimo than another. It adds a uniquness to a unity.  

[Nolah de Fanel]

I haven't been in here in so long that once I get here all of the questions or debates have been added to and my opinion has already been voiced in the form of someone's answer.  

[SYFFER]

Nolah

I haven't been in here in so long that once I get here all of the questions or debates have been added to and my opinion has already been voiced in the form of someone's answer.

It happens to the best of us sweatdrop  

[Rudhe]

Yeah, conversation is gone and I missed it crying