Declaration of Independence? How does this relate to Obama

[xxpeaceful_dreamsxx]

Yesterday I was at Americafest in Southern California and two U.S congressman were reading the declartion of independance and I heard things that were the same to obama what is your opinion?  

[Lord Bitememan]

I re-read the DoI and did not find anything from the abuses section that applied to Obama. I did, however, find the following bits:

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Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Like it or not, Obama won, and won with a decisive majority. Our American social contract implicitly commands that differing points of view get a chance to run government every now and again when the people give them such a mandate. Nothing Obama is doing now can't be undone, till the day he suspends the Constitutional process of power transition. Till that day, no matter how much policy he enacts, he is no tyrant.

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That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it

We have a process to alter government, it is called electing new people at the next election. This process is still in tact. When the next round rolls around, the new batch will have their crack at instituting policy, which will be their means of altering government.

Polemic is no service to our cause. Patience, innovation, and enthusiasm are. The other guys have their chance, for now, as it was meant to be. When they've exhausted their reservoirs of patience with the public, it will be our turn.  

[xxpeaceful_dreamsxx]

Yes but those things from the DoI shows the Obama is doing things wrong and is not following the the Declaration of Independence shows:
Obama has made many mistakes
1. Healthcare- giving it to the goverment, the government SUCKS they take away everything
2. Kids not smoking I am happy with
3. etc I could go on and on but I bet you he won't be elected for the 2012 election no way a democrat does not belong in the presidents seat if he were to look at Ronald Reagan and his legacy of when they were in the recession he would see that if Bush is to blame than why did we not lose 5 billion jobs lost than it is not because of the last adminstration it is just not this a apart of this topic it has to do with what people like to blame the past admistration with but really to blame is the current admistration  

[Lord Bitememan]

Nothing you just mentioned is even listed in the Declaration of Independence. I will, however, now go point by point from the DoI and demonstrate to you that there is no comparison:

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He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Obama hasn't vetoed any measures yet.

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He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

The states (the authority outside the federal level) can, have, and still are passing laws as we speak. This power has not been usurped by the federal government under Obama.

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He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

No federal riders have been placed on legislation demanding the abdication of representation in a pay to play scheme.

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He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

Congress still meets at the Capital Hill.

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He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

Obama has not dissolved any legislatures.

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He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

Obama has not prevented elections from taking place.

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He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

Obama has done nothing to prevent immigration, in fact the complaint on the right generally is that he intends to let too many people in.

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He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

We haven't had the need to create new courts for decades, and Mr. Obama certainly hasn't stood in the way of any recent legislation.

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He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

Obama has neither attempted to limit judicial terms of office nor has he attempted to reduce judicial pay.

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He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

In this context one needs to understand that the fundamental purpose of the offices established by King George was the enforcement of acts designed to further repressive measures. Every US president establishes new offices as a means of addressing new policy challenges that arise. In Bush's case, we had the Dept. of Homeland Security. Obama has created several federal "Czars" to try and forestall crises in various economic echelons. This is a far cry from King George's officers, whose duty was to extort the colonists and subvert common English laws.

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He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

Our standing armies exist on the same consent of the legislature than they did 8 years ago.

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He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

The military is still answerable to both the president and Congress.

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He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

This was a bit of a lie when the Continental Congress first spoke it. They mean the British government in this passage, but they had no domestic constitution at the time. Phrases like this were one of the reasons the DoI was largely panned in England at the time. Nevertheless, Obama has not rendered the US subservient to a foreign constitution, nor has he even agreed to join a multinational organization like the International Criminal Court.

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For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

Troops are still housed in barracks.

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For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

Troops still face the military court system, Obama has not created new courts to deal with them.

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For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

Obama has not rescinded any trade agreements nor has he erected trade barriers of any kind.

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For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

He hasn't raised taxes. . . yet. Even when he does, one can clearly point to the margins by which he was elected in 2008 and say the public consented to his agenda, increased taxation being a part thereof.

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For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

We still have jury trials.

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For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

Obama has yet to grant extradition of any American citizen to a foreign power for trial, nor is he even the body to make that call (hint, only judges can do this).

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For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

Obama has not dissolved any state or local governments.

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For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

Obama has not dissolved any state or local governments.

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For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

Obama has not forced any state or local governments into suspension and replaced their role with the federal government.

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He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

Obama has not declared the United States in rebellion of the United States nor has he deployed troops against it.

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He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

Obama is an eco-nut, which means he is preventing US from plundering the wealth of OUR seas and from ravaging OUR coasts. Bad policy, but the opposite of what King George had done. So far I'm not seeing the sacking of towns and the destroying of lives.

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He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

Obama has not hired mercenaries and is not deploying them against the US.

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He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

Obama has not impressed anyone into military service, naval or otherwise.

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He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

Wow, I think I just heard a million old Native Americans say "Ah, the glory days, when we were feared and despised, and not simply ignored and relegated to reservations." Never mind that. Obama has not incited our Native American populations into a domestic insurrection.

Sorry, but there is nothing in that document even remotely pertinent to Obama, nor are any of the concerns you listed addressed in any way by that document. Please, do not conflate the genuine tyranny of George III's rule over the American colonies with the gripes that someone we disagree with has come to power and is enacting some laws we disagree with. It cheapens the use of the term "tyranny."  

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

Stupidest thing done was having DHS absorb the INS under its wing. Its not like DHS knew what it was doing, let along then taking on more responsibility under tis network. The lack of communication between the DHS and the INS for three years was impossible to translate betwen offices for that time.

And technically, though no site wil admit it, the NSA had a homeland branch that covered what DHS was supposed to do. But no, bureaucracy ensues and voila! DHS was made, and a joke it is.  

[Lord Bitememan]

That's an interesting point, though a bit off-topic. A separate thread for it, and voila, a solid independent discussion we can have.