Atheism and Gay marriage

[G4NTZ]

Ah, I get it now! Thanks for pointing that out, Ekeda. There's more to this than I thought there was redface  

[Identity Undefinable]

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•I dont like the idea of marriage. I dont like the idea of being tied down either. I went through the bisexual stage in high school. I had a girlfriend, we were like a your average couple, the whole nine yards. I don't think marriage should be a big factor in a relationship, heterosexual or homosexual.•

•If I did, I'm all for Same Sex, Different Race, Different Religion. Go for it.•

•I remember reading something similar to poetry on the adoption subject though. It was heart wrenching to read how a child with two dads was stoned by other children and given hell from teachers.•

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[Raticiel]

=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=

Raticiel

What I mostly want to say is that just, from observing my society I think homophobia lies deep inside that "tradition" and, because of that, in catholicism, but not in religion itself (german evangelist's church approved homosexual marriages, for example). Many homophobic people don't even go to church. They don't really care, but they have to kill the damn (I don't know any english word for insulting gays so I use the original) "pedal", "ciota" or something like this.

True, most homophobes rarely even read their own sacred text. Because if they did, they would be a lot less homophobic and religious.

Yeah, and most probably they would be smart enough to act less agressively. But the hole bunch of idiots which attack homosexuals in the name of church and tradition are one story, and another is the way youngsters are acting, they don't even know where their agression comes from. It scares me. Bigger cities are starting to be more friendly to homosexuals, but what bites me is something I'd call a "homosexual backlash". For example there is only one (sic!) club for homosexuals in my town (over 400,000 citizens) (there are some more friendly places, but in most if they'll spot a pair of kissing boys it gets really unfriendly...) and they're very particular about letting people in (fortunately I have a friend hanging around there blaugh ), but that's just a minor picture of what I'm trying to say. I really wouldn't want something like hatred toward heterosexuals from homosexuals, and I have to sadly notice some groups are starting something like this. All medals are two-sided, but I hope it will go in another direction... Still I can only speak about my country.

=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=

But even this idea is completely flawed. If they say that humans should only have sex for procreation, then they wouldn't condemn sex before marriage since marriage, by this idea, is virtually pointless. Right? More sex, more babies, the merrier? (this is what this idea is basically saying.) Then... why would they condemn sex orgies? Also, wouldn't we have to condemn all the married couples who voluntarily decide not to have children, or can no longer bear children anymore?

I wrote just the same thing in my paper about ethics and homosexualism. wink it is a strong argument. Some people, like my teacher, say that homosexuals want to marry just in order to gain economical benefits and they shouldn't because they can't "produce" children. Sometimes I wonder if those so-called benefits are worth trying...

=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=

Actually, adopted kids of same-sex couples have fairly normal lives that differ little from heterosexual couples. A number of professional organizations (such as the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association) have performed studies that showed there is no evidence that same-sex parenting would cause harm in children's health and mental growth, except that same-sex couples' children are more likely to be accepting of LGBT people. Now, of course, they also cited that social prejudice may cause harm to the gays' and lesbians' mindset, but still there is no evidence to suggest that the children will suffer from troubled lives...

I understand why you would be against marriage. In fact, some homosexual couples have gotten up and over it, saying that "marriage is too low for their leagues." After all, heterosexual marriages can get just as ugly as homophobia.

I know what you mean, but there would be at least problems like the reactions of people around the child. I think the marriage should come first and society should get used to it. Not to mention all heterosexual tropes in culture, from movies to commercials, love songs in the radio... Everything is heterosexually-oriented.
Of course the infamous arguments like "a child needs a father and a mother" is completely foolish from gender standpoint and I just can't understand why so many people are fooled by that sweatdrop and single mothers and fathers may also have something to add about that (btw I wonder why they still let them have children...). Also the adoption law is something I can't comprehend. My dream of being single and adopting a child is so impossible to achieve... xd

 

[=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=]

Raticiel

Still I can only speak about my country.

Where do you live?

Raticiel

I know what you mean, but there would be at least problems like the reactions of people around the child. I think the marriage should come first and society should get used to it. Not to mention all heterosexual tropes in culture, from movies to commercials, love songs in the radio... Everything is heterosexually-oriented.
Of course the infamous arguments like "a child needs a father and a mother" is completely foolish from gender standpoint and I just can't understand why so many people are fooled by that sweatdrop and single mothers and fathers may also have something to add about that (btw I wonder why they still let them have children...). Also the adoption law is something I can't comprehend. My dream of being single and adopting a child is so impossible to achieve... xd

True. A majority part of the media is heterosexually-oriented (actually someone from a university made a whole list of the privileges that heterosexuals enjoy: The heterosexual privilege). However in recent years, (at least in America) I've noticed the growth of the LGBT community in the movie industry (some examples: Brokeback Mountain, Milk, Latter Days, I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry, Breakfast on Pluto, OOOH and this one is from ISRAEL (one country you wouldn't expect gay films to be popular in): Yossi & Jagger). I don't know. I'm looking forward to see more coverage in the future.
Indeed, single parents would have to be ruled out according to them... lol I thought of being a single adoptive parent at one point (wanted to adopt someone from Africa) but mehhh I just hate kids.

 

[Raticiel]

=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=

Where do you live?

In Poland smile a very funny place to live.

=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=

True. A majority part of the media is heterosexually-oriented (actually someone from a university made a whole list of the privileges that heterosexuals enjoy: The heterosexual privilege). However in recent years, (at least in America) I've noticed the growth of the LGBT community in the movie industry (some examples: Brokeback Mountain, Milk, Latter Days, I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry, Breakfast on Pluto, OOOH and this one is from ISRAEL (one country you wouldn't expect gay films to be popular in): Yossi & Jagger). I don't know. I'm looking forward to see more coverage in the future.
Indeed, single parents would have to be ruled out according to them... lol I thought of being a single adoptive parent at one point (wanted to adopt someone from Africa) but mehhh I just hate kids.

Israel is making me wonder, because I heard that currently homosexual marriages are approved there, but only if they got married abroad.

I can still recall the times when a whole bunch of anime fangirl teenagers were yaoi-fanatics whee (I used to be... a little wink )and it was another very nice way to popularize something un-heterosexual. We used to have an anime magazine (only one, but it was very popular) and now when I look at it, all problems the poor magazine had, started just around the time when they started writing articles about yaoi. There were problems with catholic media (and not only catholic!), and sadly the magazine died (of course it might be just one of many reasons, but still, after all you could see Pokemons and other stuff in the magazine, so children had access to it and it was a small scandal).

Thanks for the movie list, I never got much interested in this so I'll try to check these, actually I only heard about Milk. I personally recommend the movie Wittgenstein, a little surrealistic film about a famous philosopher who was a gay. The way it's shown in some scenes is very delicate and really nice.

Yeah, I also hate children wink but I always wanted to adopt one, or even more, just because I feel so sorry for ones living in orphanages... I don't want my own that much, because if something happened to me, it would increase the amount of sad children, and that way I could decrease it wink my silly little reasoning XD  

[D i v i n i t y]

I think gay marriage should be legalized. It is sad because most people against it see marriage as some sort of religious, sacred union under God... A lot of gay people just want to be married and get the same rights as an actual married couple.. (No, civil union is not the same). I think my atheism relates to my opinion since coming to a conclusion that there is no God means you must open your mind a little more and so i think i am more open to the idea of gay marriage (although it would disgust me to see a naked man) and the people against gay marriage are mostly religious people who think marriage IS some sacred religious union under God.
Also, I think a lot of people are scared that if they pass gay marriage, adoption laws will be more open for homosexuals. Maybe they fear that their adopted kid will become homosexual (there's some adoption law in texas that doesn't allow homosexuals to adopt, right? I don't really remember for certain which state).  

[StevenStBlaize]

Straight marriage is hardly held sacred enough in the religions that claim gay marriage is an abomination for their arguments to have any kind of meaning. I'm not saying gays would be any better at marriage, but it's not like straight people are all that good at it to begin with.