Welcome to Gaia! ::

Gaian Atheists United

Back to Guilds

A safe and friendly place for Atheists to be themselves. 

Tags: Atheism, Theology, Philosophy, Science, Logic 

Reply The Main Discussion Place
lies

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

dl1371

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:25 pm


i was in history class and since were studying the holocaust, some kid asked what Hitlers religion was, our teacher answered that he was atheist, so i went home and looked it up, almost all of the websites i saw said he was a roman catholic or that there was some debate. that really pissed me off, she studied the holocaust in college, she should know what hitlers religion was and she should have told the class, but instead she chose to lie and make the class feel better about their religion, i mean honestly, if you want to BS atheism, at least tell the truth
(note:i am not saying religion was the cause of the holocaust, im saying that she shouldnt have lied)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:37 pm


Knowing Hitler's religion is hard because we AREN'T that sure.
Some people believe he was Roman Catholic because he believed in the perfect human, which can kinda lead back to the whole first humans theory.
However, it would make MORE sense for him to be Roman Catholic then Atheist.
Your teacher might be the person who believes that Atheists have no morals, therefor, do not feel when ding something " sinful ".

Captain_Shinzo

6,250 Points
  • Member 100
  • Gaian 50
  • Dressed Up 200

dl1371

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:38 pm


Captain_Shinzo
Knowing Hitler's religion is hard because we AREN'T that sure.
Some people believe he was Roman Catholic because he believed in the perfect human, which can kinda lead back to the whole first humans theory.
However, it would make MORE sense for him to be Roman Catholic then Atheist.
Your teacher might be the person who believes that Atheists have no morals, therefor, do not feel when ding something " sinful ".

she did say something like that he wasnt religious because he would realize what he was doing was wrong
but still, thats no excuse for lying
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:23 pm


If you went strictly by quotations, you would find that Hitler was a Catholic. However, nobody knows if he actually believed the things he said; there are even people who argue that he himself wasn't actually particularly antisemitic. Whether he was personally religious or not, the vast majority of Germans at the time were Roman Catholic. He frequently used this to his advantage. We DO know that he appealed to religion in many of his speeches, and obviously the Holocaust was largely based on religious thinking. Himmler, the man who actually oversaw the Holocaust, was certainly a devout Catholic. Also, chaplains had a strong presence in the German military, reflecting the religious culture that was Nazi Germany.

In their defense, the Catholic Church strongly condemned the Holocaust and even offered protection/aid to Jews during WW2. I've never understood why people use Hitler as an example of a "bad atheist". I mean, if you were going to use that argument, why not use Stalin? He killed WAY more people than Hitler did, and he definitely was an atheist.

Of course, the argument is logically flawed, and in the words of someone whose name I've forgotten,"Without religion, bad people would still do bad things and good people would still do good things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion." We actually saw that in Nazi Germany, I think. I refuse to believe that everyone in the Nazi party was just inherently evil.

Lethkhar


dl1371

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:41 pm


Lethkhar
If you went strictly by quotations, you would find that Hitler was a Catholic. However, nobody knows if he actually believed the things he said; there are even people who argue that he himself wasn't actually particularly antisemitic. Whether he was personally religious or not, the vast majority of Germans at the time were Roman Catholic. He frequently used this to his advantage. We DO know that he appealed to religion in many of his speeches, and obviously the Holocaust was largely based on religious thinking. Himmler, the man who actually oversaw the Holocaust, was certainly a devout Catholic. Also, chaplains had a strong presence in the German military, reflecting the religious culture that was Nazi Germany.

In their defense, the Catholic Church strongly condemned the Holocaust and even offered protection/aid to Jews during WW2. I've never understood why people use Hitler as an example of a "bad atheist". I mean, if you were going to use that argument, why not use Stalin? He killed WAY more people than Hitler did, and he definitely was an atheist.

Of course, the argument is logically flawed, and in the words of someone whose name I've forgotten,"Without religion, bad people would still do bad things and good people would still do good things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion." We actually saw that in Nazi Germany, I think. I refuse to believe that everyone in the Nazi party was just inherently evil.

my point isnt that religion is what caused the holocaust
religion was actually only a small part, even if you were a catholic, is your grandparents were Jewish, hitler would condemn you

but my point is, that my teacher shouldnt have lied about his religion when she could have said that their was some debate, or that he was catholic
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:46 pm


dl1371
Captain_Shinzo
Knowing Hitler's religion is hard because we AREN'T that sure.
Some people believe he was Roman Catholic because he believed in the perfect human, which can kinda lead back to the whole first humans theory.
However, it would make MORE sense for him to be Roman Catholic then Atheist.
Your teacher might be the person who believes that Atheists have no morals, therefor, do not feel when ding something " sinful ".

she did say something like that he wasnt religious because he would realize what he was doing was wrong
but still, thats no excuse for lying

Reason why that is so offensive.
She goes by such a common belief that doesn't make sense and is degrading.
You don't need a religion to know what you do is wrong.
Take Africa for instance.
The people are hurting children in the belief that some are witches or wizards.
To belief this, you must have some kind of religious belief which is most likely in this case.
Morality is not always based on religion

Captain_Shinzo

6,250 Points
  • Member 100
  • Gaian 50
  • Dressed Up 200

Lethkhar

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:12 pm


dl1371
Lethkhar
If you went strictly by quotations, you would find that Hitler was a Catholic. However, nobody knows if he actually believed the things he said; there are even people who argue that he himself wasn't actually particularly antisemitic. Whether he was personally religious or not, the vast majority of Germans at the time were Roman Catholic. He frequently used this to his advantage. We DO know that he appealed to religion in many of his speeches, and obviously the Holocaust was largely based on religious thinking. Himmler, the man who actually oversaw the Holocaust, was certainly a devout Catholic. Also, chaplains had a strong presence in the German military, reflecting the religious culture that was Nazi Germany.

In their defense, the Catholic Church strongly condemned the Holocaust and even offered protection/aid to Jews during WW2. I've never understood why people use Hitler as an example of a "bad atheist". I mean, if you were going to use that argument, why not use Stalin? He killed WAY more people than Hitler did, and he definitely was an atheist.

Of course, the argument is logically flawed, and in the words of someone whose name I've forgotten,"Without religion, bad people would still do bad things and good people would still do good things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion." We actually saw that in Nazi Germany, I think. I refuse to believe that everyone in the Nazi party was just inherently evil.

my point isnt that religion is what caused the holocaust
religion was actually only a small part, even if you were a catholic, is your grandparents were Jewish, hitler would condemn you

but my point is, that my teacher shouldnt have lied about his religion when she could have said that their was some debate, or that he was catholic

Yup.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:04 am


Did it ever occur to you that maybe, even though she studied it in college, that she never actually specifically touched upon Hitler's religion in her studies? Hitler as an atheist has been considered "common knowledge" (even though it's false) for many, many years. Maybe she really doesn't know about the debate or realize the religious motivations of many Nazis. I mean, how old is your teacher? How long ago did she study this stuff? I think it's only been fairly recently that people have been willing to even consider that the Holocaust could have been religiously motivated.

I would suggest that you talk to your teacher about it. Ask her if she knows about the debate on Hitler's religion and ask her to correct herself next class. Then you'll really know whether or not she's lying or just ignorant. It'll help if you have some sources to give her, too. Alternatively, if you have to write a report about the Holocaust, you have your topic set!

alteregoivy


[-Erik-]

Durem Citizen

7,700 Points
  • Hygienic 200
  • Generous 100
  • First step to fame 200
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:01 am


Call her on her bullshit. Do it mad
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:07 pm


alteregoivy
Did it ever occur to you that maybe, even though she studied it in college, that she never actually specifically touched upon Hitler's religion in her studies? Hitler as an atheist has been considered "common knowledge" (even though it's false) for many, many years. Maybe she really doesn't know about the debate or realize the religious motivations of many Nazis. I mean, how old is your teacher? How long ago did she study this stuff? I think it's only been fairly recently that people have been willing to even consider that the Holocaust could have been religiously motivated.

I would suggest that you talk to your teacher about it. Ask her if she knows about the debate on Hitler's religion and ask her to correct herself next class. Then you'll really know whether or not she's lying or just ignorant. It'll help if you have some sources to give her, too. Alternatively, if you have to write a report about the Holocaust, you have your topic set!

2 things
1st, i already did kind of call her on it, and it looks like she knew that there was some debate
and 2nd, the unit is over, so i cant do a report on it

dl1371


alteregoivy

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:31 pm


dl1371
alteregoivy
Did it ever occur to you that maybe, even though she studied it in college, that she never actually specifically touched upon Hitler's religion in her studies? Hitler as an atheist has been considered "common knowledge" (even though it's false) for many, many years. Maybe she really doesn't know about the debate or realize the religious motivations of many Nazis. I mean, how old is your teacher? How long ago did she study this stuff? I think it's only been fairly recently that people have been willing to even consider that the Holocaust could have been religiously motivated.

I would suggest that you talk to your teacher about it. Ask her if she knows about the debate on Hitler's religion and ask her to correct herself next class. Then you'll really know whether or not she's lying or just ignorant. It'll help if you have some sources to give her, too. Alternatively, if you have to write a report about the Holocaust, you have your topic set!

2 things
1st, i already did kind of call her on it, and it looks like she knew that there was some debate
and 2nd, the unit is over, so i cant do a report on it


Then that IS just sad. She should correct herself in front of the class.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:56 pm


alteregoivy
dl1371
alteregoivy
Did it ever occur to you that maybe, even though she studied it in college, that she never actually specifically touched upon Hitler's religion in her studies? Hitler as an atheist has been considered "common knowledge" (even though it's false) for many, many years. Maybe she really doesn't know about the debate or realize the religious motivations of many Nazis. I mean, how old is your teacher? How long ago did she study this stuff? I think it's only been fairly recently that people have been willing to even consider that the Holocaust could have been religiously motivated.

I would suggest that you talk to your teacher about it. Ask her if she knows about the debate on Hitler's religion and ask her to correct herself next class. Then you'll really know whether or not she's lying or just ignorant. It'll help if you have some sources to give her, too. Alternatively, if you have to write a report about the Holocaust, you have your topic set!

2 things
1st, i already did kind of call her on it, and it looks like she knew that there was some debate
and 2nd, the unit is over, so i cant do a report on it


Then that IS just sad. She should correct herself in front of the class.

yeah

dl1371

Reply
The Main Discussion Place

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum