Draw muhammad day

[Yur-Yur Yuri]

RandomnessAndMiscellany

Oh yes, and everyone else who feels like participating in the Islam hatred, please take the time to read this before making comments.
I'm okay with telling countries that its wrong to put down free speech (is it?), however you should do that to all countries that try to take away those rights, not just middle eastern ones. And you definitely shouldn't insult all of Islam in the process, considering less than 40% of Islamic people live in the Middle East.

I insult all religion equally.  

[Le Pere Duchesne]

Yur-Yur Yuri

RandomnessAndMiscellany

Oh yes, and everyone else who feels like participating in the Islam hatred, please take the time to read this before making comments.
I'm okay with telling countries that its wrong to put down free speech (is it?), however you should do that to all countries that try to take away those rights, not just middle eastern ones. And you definitely shouldn't insult all of Islam in the process, considering less than 40% of Islamic people live in the Middle East.

I insult all religion equally.

That is a cop out.

Religion is false. Understanding this is why we're all in this guild. However knowing it is false does not mean that you should insult the religious or their faith. In countries like the US, where religion is huge, and extremely backward strands of protestant christianity are very prominent, the inability to actually make a difference can drive some to cynical barbs. But this does nothing. Even more, when transfered from attacking the dominant religion to attacking minorities, it becomes an expression of oppression, because in this way you are uniting with the same born-again crowd that wants to make your existence illegal in order to...

To do what? To show how edgy and rebellious you are by joining in howling with the wolves against a persecuted minority?

By doing this, you are only alienating Muslims from secularism and playing into the lie that all non-believers hate them. All this does is force them to seek security from within their own community, and thus entrenches and strengthens the influence their religious 'community leaders' have. At the same time, by not uniting with Muslims against their oppression, you are strengthening the Christian crowd against yourself.

You can correctly point to the absurdity of the reactions to the Mohamed cartoons, but to go from there to "******** them, let's draw him, that'll teach those backward ********!" is absolutely absurd and disgusting. The islamic world is hideously backward. This is obvious. for a century and a half it has been subject to foreign occupation and dictatorships by Shahs, Mullahs, colonels, and 'Presidents for life' who have been backed by foreign (and christian) imperialism. In these areas, with no secular opposition, the religious leaders take on the role of opposition to imperialism. And they see those cartoons as just another manifestation of imperialist haughtiness. The reaction by the secular and atheist crowds to this has not been to oppose the imperialism that creates and perpetuates the conditions which cause this religious obscurantism to flourish, but to join in with those oppressors.

What the ******** is this? Seriously?  

[Yur-Yur Yuri]

Gracchia Blanqui

Yur-Yur Yuri

RandomnessAndMiscellany

Oh yes, and everyone else who feels like participating in the Islam hatred, please take the time to read this before making comments.
I'm okay with telling countries that its wrong to put down free speech (is it?), however you should do that to all countries that try to take away those rights, not just middle eastern ones. And you definitely shouldn't insult all of Islam in the process, considering less than 40% of Islamic people live in the Middle East.

I insult all religion equally.

That is a cop out.

Religion is false. Understanding this is why we're all in this guild. However knowing it is false does not mean that you should insult the religious or their faith. In countries like the US, where religion is huge, and extremely backward strands of protestant christianity are very prominent, the inability to actually make a difference can drive some to cynical barbs. But this does nothing. Even more, when transfered from attacking the dominant religion to attacking minorities, it becomes an expression of oppression, because in this way you are uniting with the same born-again crowd that wants to make your existence illegal in order to...

To do what? To show how edgy and rebellious you are by joining in howling with the wolves against a persecuted minority?

By doing this, you are only alienating Muslims from secularism and playing into the lie that all non-believers hate them. All this does is force them to seek security from within their own community, and thus entrenches and strengthens the influence their religious 'community leaders' have. At the same time, by not uniting with Muslims against their oppression, you are strengthening the Christian crowd against yourself.

You can correctly point to the absurdity of the reactions to the Mohamed cartoons, but to go from there to "******** them, let's draw him, that'll teach those backward ********!" is absolutely absurd and disgusting. The islamic world is hideously backward. This is obvious. for a century and a half it has been subject to foreign occupation and dictatorships by Shahs, Mullahs, colonels, and 'Presidents for life' who have been backed by foreign (and christian) imperialism. In these areas, with no secular opposition, the religious leaders take on the role of opposition to imperialism. And they see those cartoons as just another manifestation of imperialist haughtiness. The reaction by the secular and atheist crowds to this has not been to oppose the imperialism that creates and perpetuates the conditions which cause this religious obscurantism to flourish, but to join in with those oppressors.

What the ******** is this? Seriously?

Let me get this straight..
You believe in not exercising free speech, letting them run atheists into the ground, call us immoral and so on, but we're not allowed to "talk back" or mock the believers because YOU think we're just trying to be "edgy" and "rebellious"?
What paint are you huffing?!
I have the ******** right to do what I want, so do all Americans; so if I want to paint "666" on my a** and scare a Christian, mock them whatever, who are you to tell me I can't? Who are you to put me down for it?

Maybe you're right, we should just lie down like cowards and suck a Christians c**k. Well ******** you. That's not what Atheism is about. That's not what this nation is about. Eat it.  

[Yur-Yur Yuri]

And ******** being politically correct, ******** being passive aggressive. If we want equality, and religion to back the hell off/out of where it should not be, we've got to stand against it. Not hide under the bed like a damn coward.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

RandomnessAndMiscellany

Firstly, I was speaking for American Muslims, who don't scan over every single passage of the Koran. Of course in Muslim countries they obey it, however stereotyping all Muslims as being woman hating witch burners etc. etc. is not at all valid. You chided me for "stereotyping" Muslims (although I was only talking about American Muslims, sorry for the misunderstanding sweatdrop ), yet in your first post you called the majority of Muslims out on having a witch stoning, woman hating, ****** worldview...
Secondly, the argument "you don't have a god, so no morals" was not my argument. My argument was that if you're separate from another group, specifically religiously, then you'll commit atrocities 'cause, "You're wrong, and hurting society, so Imma kill you." If you actually are telling me that atheists are some kind of exception, you're blind.

I apologize for the confusion, then, as I was referring to the worldwide Muslim population. I did not intend to lump all Muslims into a single group; I was talking about countries where Islam dominates and extremists within non-Islamic countries.

As to your second point, though, I have to disagree. Just because you acknowledge that you are different from another person, group, culture, etc., does not mean that you will automatically hate it/them, let alone resort to violence to alter or destroy it/them. Of course, some people will hate and resort to violence, which brings us to my point: that religion is an especially effective instigator of hatred of and violence toward the Other.

RandomnessAndMiscellany

Oh yes, and everyone else who feels like participating in the Islam hatred, please take the time to read this before making comments.
I'm okay with telling countries that its wrong to put down free speech (is it?), however you should do that to all countries that try to take away those rights, not just middle eastern ones. And you definitely shouldn't insult all of Islam in the process, considering less than 40% of Islamic people live in the Middle East.

"Is it"? Is it wrong to denounce and deny freedom of speech? Uh, yes! confused

There are Muslim-dominated countries not only in the Middle East but also in Africa and Asia, and most (I would almost dare to say all) have a variety of human rights issues.

Criticism is not the same as hate (nor is mockery, for that matter). I do not hate Muslims. I hate delusion, ignorance, bigotry, sexism, *****, arranged marriage, and oppression of free expression, and I'm not afraid to say so. These are problems with many religions, but the one with the most power (in its control of many nations) and will (due to its lack of softening through reformation) to inflict them is Islam."  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

I think Draw Muhammad Day was needlessly disrespectful. Speak out against extremists; yes. But think about the moderate, peaceful Muslims who will be casualties of an approach like this. It's hurtful to them too.

Respect for a group with whom you may disagree is not cowardice; it's basic decency. We should use our freedom of expression to speak out against extremism in a productive and informative manner, not engage in this juvenile, offensive bullshit.

 

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Daffodil the Destroyer

I think Draw Muhammad Day was needlessly disrespectful. Speak out against extremists; yes. But think about the moderate, peaceful Muslims who will be casualties of an approach like this. It's hurtful to them too.

Respect for a group with whom you may disagree is not cowardice; it's basic decency. We should use our freedom of expression to speak out against extremism in a productive and informative manner, not engage in this juvenile, offensive bullshit.

I saw a lot of people's pictures of Muhammad and yes, some were needlessly offensive. However, the intention of the day was not to be offensive, but rather to show that Islam is not special, not above criticism.
The whole problem is that drawing Muhammad is seen in and of itself offensive, regardless of content or context. I'm sure Christians would prefer that no one draw Jesus or use his image in a "blasphemous" way, but they aren't going around killing people for it and it's not likely to stop.