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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:46 pm
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Shanna66 Fighting Fefnir squeakygirl Fighting Fefnir - I appreciate that you are wanting others to see your point of view on things...but PLEASE remember that this is a Christian Guild. Respect - it was not respectful of you to make a statement regarding grammar, no matter how nice you were in making the statement. Yes, Christians try to uphold ourselves in light of a Greater Power (GOD)....but, we are human. To err is human. The only perfect being there ever was, was Jesus. We are not Jesus and never can be. We strive to do our best, yes we fail, but regardless of our failures we are still loved and forgiven, provided we ask for forgiveness. Fefnir, if you continue to act in the manner that you do, you will be removed from the guild. I have been tolerant, but I do not wish for those who have joined this guild for a reason to have to deal with some of the things you post. Since I was not the one that approved your join request, may I ask the reason in which you chose to join our guild? Yes, I quite realize that this is a Christian guild. This does not help me to understand in what way I am being disrespectful. I indicated the spelling error so that the person could help herself (it was a her, I think) and prevent said error in the future, not in order to offend. She took it well, in fact, corrected the error somewhat, and things had moved on, so I don't see how it is important to bring it up again, as neither party had any problem with the statement. I can agree to avoid doing so in the future, though it kills my soul a bit, seeing as I'm studying to become an English teacher. ^^;; I don't understand the context in which your making the statement about Jesus being God, as it isn't a response to the point I made about Christians being held to a higher standard, so the best that I can figure is that you made a general statement to the others who had posted. It's just a bit of a non-sequitur in terms of the discussion, though. Can you please tell me what it is that I'm doing or saying that others should not 'have to deal with'? I have been earnest in my attempts to add to the topics that I post in and within those posts have been sincere and honest to the best of my ability based on what I have learned. While I will admit that my conduct was less than stellar when debating with Scarlet, the unbiased reader will find equal shares of disrespect from the both of us. I am not bothered by the fact in the slightest, because the debates actually made me do the research and I found them enjoyable. As for my reason in joining this guild, I like to debate, and I like to learn about Christian theology. I figured here I could do both. i think that it may be that you havent been off to the best start in the guild with your debates with scarlet so some of us are a bit wary about some of your intents. ive seen plenty of threads outside of the guild where people would post just to be rude to christians. im not saying your doing that though so please dont take it that way. i hope you understand what im trying to say, im really terrible with explaining things sweatdrop i dont know if everyone feels that way or not, thats just what im assuming.
No, no, I completely understand the suspicions. There's a fine line between intentionally hurtful statements and harsh criticisms, and they're easily mistaken. I try to be very clear with how I conduct myself that I don't simply poke at the religion, but sometimes I suppose I'm not very clear about it. If everyone felt the same way, it would make things a whole lot simpler in the long run, but I'm willing to bet there's at least one person who won't be willing to accept my word for things.
I suppose it can't be helped though. Actions will show the validity in the end. |
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:11 pm
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Fighting Fefnir Shanna66 Fighting Fefnir squeakygirl Fighting Fefnir - I appreciate that you are wanting others to see your point of view on things...but PLEASE remember that this is a Christian Guild. Respect - it was not respectful of you to make a statement regarding grammar, no matter how nice you were in making the statement. Yes, Christians try to uphold ourselves in light of a Greater Power (GOD)....but, we are human. To err is human. The only perfect being there ever was, was Jesus. We are not Jesus and never can be. We strive to do our best, yes we fail, but regardless of our failures we are still loved and forgiven, provided we ask for forgiveness. Fefnir, if you continue to act in the manner that you do, you will be removed from the guild. I have been tolerant, but I do not wish for those who have joined this guild for a reason to have to deal with some of the things you post. Since I was not the one that approved your join request, may I ask the reason in which you chose to join our guild? Yes, I quite realize that this is a Christian guild. This does not help me to understand in what way I am being disrespectful. I indicated the spelling error so that the person could help herself (it was a her, I think) and prevent said error in the future, not in order to offend. She took it well, in fact, corrected the error somewhat, and things had moved on, so I don't see how it is important to bring it up again, as neither party had any problem with the statement. I can agree to avoid doing so in the future, though it kills my soul a bit, seeing as I'm studying to become an English teacher. ^^;; I don't understand the context in which your making the statement about Jesus being God, as it isn't a response to the point I made about Christians being held to a higher standard, so the best that I can figure is that you made a general statement to the others who had posted. It's just a bit of a non-sequitur in terms of the discussion, though. Can you please tell me what it is that I'm doing or saying that others should not 'have to deal with'? I have been earnest in my attempts to add to the topics that I post in and within those posts have been sincere and honest to the best of my ability based on what I have learned. While I will admit that my conduct was less than stellar when debating with Scarlet, the unbiased reader will find equal shares of disrespect from the both of us. I am not bothered by the fact in the slightest, because the debates actually made me do the research and I found them enjoyable. As for my reason in joining this guild, I like to debate, and I like to learn about Christian theology. I figured here I could do both. i think that it may be that you havent been off to the best start in the guild with your debates with scarlet so some of us are a bit wary about some of your intents. ive seen plenty of threads outside of the guild where people would post just to be rude to christians. im not saying your doing that though so please dont take it that way. i hope you understand what im trying to say, im really terrible with explaining things sweatdrop i dont know if everyone feels that way or not, thats just what im assuming. No, no, I completely understand the suspicions. There's a fine line between intentionally hurtful statements and harsh criticisms, and they're easily mistaken. I try to be very clear with how I conduct myself that I don't simply poke at the religion, but sometimes I suppose I'm not very clear about it. If everyone felt the same way, it would make things a whole lot simpler in the long run, but I'm willing to bet there's at least one person who won't be willing to accept my word for things. I suppose it can't be helped though. Actions will show the validity in the end.
you dont know ow happy i am that you understood what i was trying to say.
i know ive said a few things that people have probably assumed assumed was me being rude |
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:57 pm
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Fefnir, it was a typo. You knew better than to believe she didn't understand English grammatical structure. It was a jab at her.
I figured you were raised in Christianity. Most non-believers wouldn't have such a knowledge of the Scriptures, correct or not, unless they studied Christianity in-depth. And most non-believers aren't really interested in the study of Christianity, nor are most Christians interested in the study of other religions. So it would make sense that you were raised that way.
I all ready explained to you why I used the post with that Old Testament passage, not law, in it. You know that. I explained to you that it was simply for convenience as the New Testament passages had all ready been typed out in that post. I told you that, yet you seem to think that I was trying to use that specific Old Testament passage when I clearly told you that I was not.
And--you really must not understand Christianity very well if you believe that Christians must follow every law in the Old Testament. But since you do not believe that, you are more knowledgeable than previously stated. So I correct myself there.
Very well. Perhaps non-believers have no reason to refrain from sin because of that. But sin is still destructive, and it affects more than just the sinner. It can affect generations to come. Case in point, a man discovers that his wife has been cheating on him for years. She confesses this the same night she declares that she is divorcing him. This leads that man into drunkenness, and then into alcoholic addiction. He can no longer stand the sight of his daughter because she looks like his ex-wife, and so he despises her. And this affects her outlook on life because of the negative influences from her father. And it can continue poisoning the lives of others all because of that sin.
But the truth is that everyone is held to the same standard, whether you believe that or not. I'm not going to argue about it being the truth in this particular thread because that would take us away from the discussion about faith vs. works and I don't want to do that.
Anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ will be given glory and honor and peace from God. It doesn't matter who it is.
It isn't being a better person that frees us from our sinful nature. We are freed of it by faith in Christ. Galatians 5:1.
James would not disagree. It is not a requisite of faith. I will post this whole passage for people to see, and we will go through it.
Brother James 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Obviously a person who does not help this person cannot truly have faith and love for Christ. If you have faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit will grow in you the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), and you will resist the deeds of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21), which are of your sinful nature. If you love Christ, you will love people. Those are the two greatest commandments, and those who have faith in Christ, true faith, will show it in their works. That is how you can determine if a person has true faith or not, by their fruits. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit, nor can a good tree produce good fruit. They will do good deeds because of their faith.
Brother James 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatβand shudder.
Showing faith by what is done. It isn't that deeds save a person. Rather, deeds show that a person's faith is real and true, alive. Not dead.
Brother James 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Paul states in Romans that Abraham was declared righteous by his faith. His faith and trust in God was shown through his willingness to offer Isaac on the altar. His faith and his actions were working together, because actions will show whether a person has true faith or not. If a person does what is right and proclaims faith in Jesus, it is obvious that the faith is real.
Brother James 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. (NIV).
Hmm...
...
Well this is troubling.
Either I am misunderstanding what is being said by James here, or James is wrong.
Here is the passage about Rahab.
Joshua 2:8-13
8 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, "I know that the LORD has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. 12 Now then, please swear to me by the LORD that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them, and that you will save us from death." (NIV)
"...for the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. Now then, please swear to me by the Lord..."
This is Rahab demonstrating faith.
If I am misunderstanding James and James is, therefore, correct, then Paul is wrong. Unless I am misunderstanding Paul, along with tons of other Christians. I personally believe that Paul is right in this case, at the moment. But if one or the other is wrong, then the Bible is not inerrant. And if the Bible is not inerrant we have no reason to believe anything it says. For all we know the whole thing could be false. What criteria could we possibly go by?
...
Somebody please help me. Until then, I will rely on my faith and not on my own understanding.
P.S. Thank you, Fefnir, for changing your signature. ^_^
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:50 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:52 pm
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Scarlet_Teardrops Fefnir, it was a typo. You knew better than to believe she didn't understand English grammatical structure. It was a jab at her.
Or I was saying that English may not be the person's first language. Her writing reminds me of a friend of mine, and his first language is French, so I correlated the two.
Quote: I figured you were raised in Christianity. Most non-believers wouldn't have such a knowledge of the Scriptures, correct or not, unless they studied Christianity in-depth. And most non-believers aren't really interested in the study of Christianity, nor are most Christians interested in the study of other religions. So it would make sense that you were raised that way.
Then why did you say that I must not know about Christianity? I don't understand the logic behind it.
Quote: I all ready explained to you why I used the post with that Old Testament passage, not law, in it. You know that. I explained to you that it was simply for convenience as the New Testament passages had all ready been typed out in that post. I told you that, yet you seem to think that I was trying to use that specific Old Testament passage when I clearly told you that I was not.
You misunderstand my point. I was saying that the New Testament authors, quoted or otherwise, were referencing the Old Testament with their statements.
Quote: And--you really must not understand Christianity very well if you believe that Christians must follow every law in the Old Testament. But since you do not believe that, you are more knowledgeable than previously stated. So I correct myself there.
I've never held that Christians should follow the Old Testament laws. Where are you getting this from? To some extent they do still, however, which was my point in bringing up homosexuality, since when it is mentioned in the New Testament, it oftentimes is a quote of the Old Testament or is mistranslated. Again, though, this is not the point of the discussion.
Quote: Very well. Perhaps non-believers have no reason to refrain from sin because of that. But sin is still destructive, and it affects more than just the sinner. It can affect generations to come. Case in point, a man discovers that his wife has been cheating on him for years. She confesses this the same night she declares that she is divorcing him. This leads that man into drunkenness, and then into alcoholic addiction. He can no longer stand the sight of his daughter because she looks like his ex-wife, and so he despises her. And this affects her outlook on life because of the negative influences from her father. And it can continue poisoning the lives of others all because of that sin.
Your statement here is the slippery slop fallacy. Just because one event happens, it does not ensure a singular result all the time. Not to mention, hypothetical situations are useful in illustrating a point, but not without something for the point to stand on without it. I can just as easily create a situation where the man commits adultery, admits it, talks through the problem with his wife, and never does it again, but it doesn't make it any less futile or any stronger a point.
Quote: But the truth is that everyone is held to the same standard, whether you believe that or not. I'm not going to argue about it being the truth in this particular thread because that would take us away from the discussion about faith vs. works and I don't want to do that.
O_o;; The original main point was about Christians having a higher standard and therefor being more target for criticism. But okay, whatever you say.
Quote: Anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ will be given glory and honor and peace from God. It doesn't matter who it is.
A non-believer doesn't feel the need to have faith. You've moved the scope of where the standard is from the standards of people to God's standard.
Quote: It isn't being a better person that frees us from our sinful nature. We are freed of it by faith in Christ. Galatians 5:1.
Except a non-believer feels no need to have faith, nor to be freed.
Quote: James would not disagree. It is not a requisite of faith. I will post this whole passage for people to see, and we will go through it. Brother James 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. Obviously a person who does not help this person cannot truly have faith and love for Christ. If you have faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit will grow in you the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), and you will resist the deeds of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21), which are of your sinful nature. If you love Christ, you will love people. Those are the two greatest commandments, and those who have faith in Christ, true faith, will show it in their works. That is how you can determine if a person has true faith or not, by their fruits. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit, nor can a good tree produce good fruit. They will do good deeds because of their faith.
The verses you just quote are in stark contrast to Paul's statement that it is only by faith that one is saved, no action required. To be honest, it seems you're reading between the lines a bit too much here. James says exactly what he means in this instance, so far as context would go, so I don't see why you're saying that works are the direct result of faith and not simply a voluntary expression of it.
Let me see if I can be a bit more clear than that...
James says faith, if not accompanied by action, is dead. This would seem to mean that the works are mandatory of those who would have real faith and are not a result of it. It is almost like a pledge for a fraternity, in my view; you perform deeds to say to God that you're willing to go all the way with this thing. Otherwise you're just saying you're in and you aren't really.
Quote: Brother James 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatβand shudder. Showing faith by what is done. It isn't that deeds save a person. Rather, deeds show that a person's faith is real and true, alive. Not dead.
Yes, exactly, and they are necessary to prove that the faith is alive. It's not a result, it's a verification, so to say. The key is that the works are needed to show that the faith is alive. I'm not saying that works alone will save someone, I'm saying they're required to prove one has faith.
Quote: Brother James 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Paul states in Romans that Abraham was declared righteous by his faith. His faith and trust in God was shown through his willingness to offer Isaac on the altar. His faith and his actions were working together, because actions will show whether a person has true faith or not. If a person does what is right and proclaims faith in Jesus, it is obvious that the faith is real.
Yes, and I don't disagree with that at all. However, the action was needed to prove that Abraham had faith, which is what my reading of the verse leads me to think James is talking about. If Abraham had said to God, "Sure I'll do it," and then not done it, how much faith would he have had? The works are absolutely necessary to having faith, not merely a result of it.
Quote: Brother James 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. (NIV). Hmm... ... Well this is troubling. Either I am misunderstanding what is being said by James here, or James is wrong. Here is the passage about Rahab. Joshua 2:8-13 8 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, "I know that the LORD has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. 12 Now then, please swear to me by the LORD that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them, and that you will save us from death." (NIV) "...for the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. Now then, please swear to me by the Lord..." This is Rahab demonstrating faith. If I am misunderstanding James and James is, therefore, correct, then Paul is wrong. Unless I am misunderstanding Paul, along with tons of other Christians. I personally believe that Paul is right in this case, at the moment. But if one or the other is wrong, then the Bible is not inerrant. And if the Bible is not inerrant we have no reason to believe anything it says. For all we know the whole thing could be false. What criteria could we possibly go by? ... Somebody please help me. Until then, I will rely on my faith and not on my own understanding.
The Bible is already wrong in regards to the impossibility of the creation story, but that's another topic. I believe that your understanding of James' words is what is in error here. Paul states that man is saved by faith. James says that faith must be demonstrated in order to prove that it is true. James completes Paul's statement by being the scientist of the situation and saying 'prove it', basically.
That's what leads me to say that Christians are held on a higher standard than non-believers. Non-believers have no compulsion to perform acts that define themselves as good to demonstrate faith. Christians must act to prove their faith alongside a smattering of other various things that are required, such as the command to 'make disciples of all nations' and the call to tithe monthly.
Quote: P.S. Thank you, Fefnir, for changing your signature. ^_^
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep is my addiction right now. xD |
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:14 pm
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Shanna66 Fighting Fefnir Shanna66 Fighting Fefnir squeakygirl Fighting Fefnir - I appreciate that you are wanting others to see your point of view on things...but PLEASE remember that this is a Christian Guild. Respect - it was not respectful of you to make a statement regarding grammar, no matter how nice you were in making the statement. Yes, Christians try to uphold ourselves in light of a Greater Power (GOD)....but, we are human. To err is human. The only perfect being there ever was, was Jesus. We are not Jesus and never can be. We strive to do our best, yes we fail, but regardless of our failures we are still loved and forgiven, provided we ask for forgiveness. Fefnir, if you continue to act in the manner that you do, you will be removed from the guild. I have been tolerant, but I do not wish for those who have joined this guild for a reason to have to deal with some of the things you post. Since I was not the one that approved your join request, may I ask the reason in which you chose to join our guild? Yes, I quite realize that this is a Christian guild. This does not help me to understand in what way I am being disrespectful. I indicated the spelling error so that the person could help herself (it was a her, I think) and prevent said error in the future, not in order to offend. She took it well, in fact, corrected the error somewhat, and things had moved on, so I don't see how it is important to bring it up again, as neither party had any problem with the statement. I can agree to avoid doing so in the future, though it kills my soul a bit, seeing as I'm studying to become an English teacher. ^^;; I don't understand the context in which your making the statement about Jesus being God, as it isn't a response to the point I made about Christians being held to a higher standard, so the best that I can figure is that you made a general statement to the others who had posted. It's just a bit of a non-sequitur in terms of the discussion, though. Can you please tell me what it is that I'm doing or saying that others should not 'have to deal with'? I have been earnest in my attempts to add to the topics that I post in and within those posts have been sincere and honest to the best of my ability based on what I have learned. While I will admit that my conduct was less than stellar when debating with Scarlet, the unbiased reader will find equal shares of disrespect from the both of us. I am not bothered by the fact in the slightest, because the debates actually made me do the research and I found them enjoyable. As for my reason in joining this guild, I like to debate, and I like to learn about Christian theology. I figured here I could do both. i think that it may be that you havent been off to the best start in the guild with your debates with scarlet so some of us are a bit wary about some of your intents. ive seen plenty of threads outside of the guild where people would post just to be rude to christians. im not saying your doing that though so please dont take it that way. i hope you understand what im trying to say, im really terrible with explaining things sweatdrop i dont know if everyone feels that way or not, thats just what im assuming. No, no, I completely understand the suspicions. There's a fine line between intentionally hurtful statements and harsh criticisms, and they're easily mistaken. I try to be very clear with how I conduct myself that I don't simply poke at the religion, but sometimes I suppose I'm not very clear about it. If everyone felt the same way, it would make things a whole lot simpler in the long run, but I'm willing to bet there's at least one person who won't be willing to accept my word for things. I suppose it can't be helped though. Actions will show the validity in the end. you dont know ow happy i am that you understood what i was trying to say. i know ive said a few things that people have probably assumed assumed was me being rude
I kind of have a habit of being blunt, so I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes people just take things the wrong way. >.>;; |
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:17 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:24 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:30 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:33 pm
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:03 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:35 am
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Luna Wolfgang β©βͺβ« πͺπ²π°π¦π π±π¬ πͺπΆ π’ππ―π° β«βͺβ© i think we also choose to be good... also because we choose to be christians. (i think so cause i see christianity as a lifestyle choice, a life experience, not as some kind of "prisioneering religion ful of laws given by a far-away mighty God") but just to clear things, it's not like good = christianity. (: (pardon my grammar)
You make a rather interesting point, if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying that because Christianity is voluntary, it isn't as if there's an obligation to do something with it, yes?
I would contest that, because it is a choice, it is in fact holding oneself to a higher standard than others who do not choose to do so. I also would point out that part of voluntarily choosing to follow Christianity is accepting its rules and teachings, and from that, Christians are told to show their faith in works.
It's like signing up for volunteer work, really. You say you'll do it so it's expected that you will, and if you back out, you get dirty looks because you didn't live up to expectations or follow through on your word. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:31 am
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Fighting Fefnir Yes, I quite realize that this is a Christian guild. This does not help me to understand in what way I am being disrespectful. I indicated the spelling error so that the person could help herself (it was a her, I think) and prevent said error in the future, not in order to offend. She took it well, in fact, corrected the error somewhat, and things had moved on, so I don't see how it is important to bring it up again, as neither party had any problem with the statement. I can agree to avoid doing so in the future, though it kills my soul a bit, seeing as I'm studying to become an English teacher. ^^;;
I am glad there were no hard feelings about it, I just had to make it clear that even though it was done in a nice way, we must ignore most of the typo's made on here. Some of us do not even speak the same language and therefore do not know what the correct spelling or grammar may be. I wanted to be an English teacher when I was younger, but realized that even though I like kids, I prefer animals.
Fighting Fefnir I don't understand the context in which your making the statement about Jesus being God, as it isn't a response to the point I made about Christians being held to a higher standard, so the best that I can figure is that you made a general statement to the others who had posted. It's just a bit of a non-sequitur in terms of the discussion, though.
This was my fault. I should have clarified that this was a reference to a different post.
Fighting Fefnir Can you please tell me what it is that I'm doing or saying that others should not 'have to deal with? I have been earnest in my attempts to add to the topics that I post in and within those posts have been sincere and honest to the best of my ability based on what I have learned. While I will admit that my conduct was less than stellar when debating with Scarlet, the unbiased reader will find equal shares of disrespect from the both of us. I am not bothered by the fact in the slightest, because the debates actually made me do the research and I found them enjoyable.
I understand and I can see that you are being earnest. I am also glad you enjoyed the research aspect. I know that some were worried and troubled by your posts and wanted to address it.
Fighting Fefnir As for my reason in joining this guild, I like to debate, and I like to learn about Christian theology. I figured here I could do both.
I feel that almost everything posted within this guild could be a debate for someone who is Christian and most definately for someone who is not. It is what is said and how things are said within the debate that could hurt or trouble others. Not everyone here is stable in their Christian walk. Some are here to learn more about Christ and learn more about Christianity. Please just watch what is said and continue to be cordial.
I hope there are no hard feelings. I am better at explaining things when I talk than when I type. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:39 am
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Fighting Fefnir Luna Wolfgang β©βͺβ« πͺπ²π°π¦π π±π¬ πͺπΆ π’ππ―π° β«βͺβ© i think we also choose to be good... also because we choose to be christians. (i think so cause i see christianity as a lifestyle choice, a life experience, not as some kind of "prisioneering religion ful of laws given by a far-away mighty God") but just to clear things, it's not like good = christianity. (: (pardon my grammar) You make a rather interesting point, if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying that because Christianity is voluntary, it isn't as if there's an obligation to do something with it, yes? I would contest that, because it is a choice, it is in fact holding oneself to a higher standard than others who do not choose to do so. I also would point out that part of voluntarily choosing to follow Christianity is accepting its rules and teachings, and from that, Christians are told to show their faith in works. It's like signing up for volunteer work, really. You say you'll do it so it's expected that you will, and if you back out, you get dirty looks because you didn't live up to expectations or follow through on your word. β©βͺβ« πͺπ²π°π¦π π±π¬ πͺπΆ π’ππ―π° β«βͺβ©
yes indeed...
that's also why i'm a neocathecumenal.
you see, my christianity experience as part of the neocathecumenal way showed me another face of christianity.
i choosed to be part of it, i've been "travening" in it, with my "family in faith", then once i felt tired, doubdting (as it happens to so many people) and i got out.
i was surprised with that, because they kept talking to me as they allways did and more, they showed me what made me go back - open arms for whenever i wanted, if i would once want to go "back to Christ" (i was really away) - it was just like the... "parable of the prodigal son" (is that how you say?)
it also happened to my brother (in blood) and he doesnt seem to want to come back - we don't see him with "bad eyes", he's out already for 5 years and altough we feel like we lost him, we will open our arms for him if he comes, it would be such a big party! (:
but meanwhile, we just see it as "his Story" and we just pray for him to be safe.
this is part of my experience as a christian. (: |
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Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:24 pm
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@Squeakygirl: There are no hard feelings here. I understand that you're just doing your job as GC, and Scarlet as GVC by (I am mostly certain) telling you about me.
@Luna: I had to look up what Neocathecumenical was, so correct me if I'm wrong here. ^^;; I rather like it, compared to the usual 'church on Sunday, same on Monday' sort of thing. It combines that real sense of community with a message of love, and that's pretty interesting, since the Holy See accepted it as a laygroup in '08. It's that community aspect that makes the difference, really, because it draws people closer on the more than the basis that they need to do these specific things. Instead, it stresses love for God through all actions and deeds, and love for one's neighbor.
In my experience, Catholicism does about the best job of avoiding the stigma of superiority other branches of Christianity seem to portray at times. Still, even in the most open of interpretations, there's requirements of some kind.
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