Question: Am I being played with?

[Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune]

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

But that's contradictory unless you claim that this divine authority doesn't care 'who' a person calls out to, so long as the being they direct it at would have similar authority if He/She/It existed.

I only mentioned the Atheist thing as an example.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you elaborate on the alleged contradiction?

Ok, let's look at it like this:
The premise of invocation is that you call upon THE divine authority. Not any god of your choosing from an assortment of gods, but the one great existence which created all things and/or has absolute authority over everything. Correct?

Correct.

So I, as a Christian, would be able to call upon God and be granted, at least for a time, His authority?  

[Obscurus]

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

But that's contradictory unless you claim that this divine authority doesn't care 'who' a person calls out to, so long as the being they direct it at would have similar authority if He/She/It existed.

I only mentioned the Atheist thing as an example.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you elaborate on the alleged contradiction?

Ok, let's look at it like this:
The premise of invocation is that you call upon THE divine authority. Not any god of your choosing from an assortment of gods, but the one great existence which created all things and/or has absolute authority over everything. Correct?

Correct.

So I, as a Christian, would be able to call upon God and be granted, at least for a time, His authority?

It would be more like how a police officer acts with the authority of the law but is not actually the law. You would be able to speak and command with His authority, but I'm not sure if that would mean you were granted the totality of His authority. You are humble before God, not arrogant enough to say you are equal to or greater than God, but you are still wielding his authority for your purpose.

The rituals of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (includes those mentioned in my first post in this thread) all appeal to the Abrahamic God, they use Hebrew Godnames, and they invoke angels. Obviously if one was not comfortable with this perception of divinity because of faith or culture they would need to use something different.

To answer your question: As a Christian, you should be able to call upon the authority of your God through your faith in order to command a spirit or entity to depart (which was the point of this thread, I think). As I said, it's the same concept as an exorcism except you're not necessarily dealing solely with a demonic entity (depending on how you feel about spirits in general, that is).  

[Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune]

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

But that's contradictory unless you claim that this divine authority doesn't care 'who' a person calls out to, so long as the being they direct it at would have similar authority if He/She/It existed.

I only mentioned the Atheist thing as an example.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you elaborate on the alleged contradiction?

Ok, let's look at it like this:
The premise of invocation is that you call upon THE divine authority. Not any god of your choosing from an assortment of gods, but the one great existence which created all things and/or has absolute authority over everything. Correct?

Correct.

So I, as a Christian, would be able to call upon God and be granted, at least for a time, His authority?

It would be more like how a police officer acts with the authority of the law but is not actually the law. You would be able to speak and command with His authority, but I'm not sure if that would mean you were granted the totality of His authority. You are humble before God, not arrogant enough to say you are equal to or greater than God, but you are still wielding his authority for your purpose.

The rituals of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (includes those mentioned in my first post in this thread) all appeal to the Abrahamic God, they use Hebrew Godnames, and they invoke angels. Obviously if one was not comfortable with this perception of divinity because of faith or culture they would need to use something different.

To answer your question: As a Christian, you should be able to call upon the authority of your God through your faith in order to command a spirit or entity to depart (which was the point of this thread, I think). As I said, it's the same concept as an exorcism except you're not necessarily dealing solely with a demonic entity (depending on how you feel about spirits in general, that is).

But at the same time, Random Joe could call upon ZzhragIII?  

[Obscurus]

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Obscurus

Nalyd Rin Dei la Rune

Ok, let's look at it like this:
The premise of invocation is that you call upon THE divine authority. Not any god of your choosing from an assortment of gods, but the one great existence which created all things and/or has absolute authority over everything. Correct?

Correct.

So I, as a Christian, would be able to call upon God and be granted, at least for a time, His authority?

It would be more like how a police officer acts with the authority of the law but is not actually the law. You would be able to speak and command with His authority, but I'm not sure if that would mean you were granted the totality of His authority. You are humble before God, not arrogant enough to say you are equal to or greater than God, but you are still wielding his authority for your purpose.

The rituals of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (includes those mentioned in my first post in this thread) all appeal to the Abrahamic God, they use Hebrew Godnames, and they invoke angels. Obviously if one was not comfortable with this perception of divinity because of faith or culture they would need to use something different.

To answer your question: As a Christian, you should be able to call upon the authority of your God through your faith in order to command a spirit or entity to depart (which was the point of this thread, I think). As I said, it's the same concept as an exorcism except you're not necessarily dealing solely with a demonic entity (depending on how you feel about spirits in general, that is).

But at the same time, Random Joe could call upon ZzhragIII?

If that was his interpretation of the All and there were enough links to make it work.

I think it should be said that I believe that the various divinities of the various religions are different interpretations of something that ultimately comes from the Source. I'm a pantheist and I believe that all roads lead to Rome when it comes to religion, generally speaking.

Something else that might help explain this: The Golden Dawn rituals utilize what is ostensibly the Christian God. They link to this by the use of Hebrew words and imagery associated with that religion. If one were a Hindu magician then they could accomplish the same thing by utilizing their own holy names and imagery to connect to their interpretation of God (which I think might be Brahmin in this usage, but I may be rusty on my Hindu mythology).  

[-bumbleshot-]

errr..uhmm..I'll interrupt you guys for a while..It worked for me..thanks!..  

[Obscurus]

-bumbleshot-

errr..uhmm..I'll interrupt you guys for a while..It worked for me..thanks!..

I'm glad that it worked for you. You're very welcome. biggrin