Faith and atheism

[MaddyMouse]

I received a message from an agnostic earlier today. We had a little argument after he claimed:

Quote:

Atheism is just as much a faith as any other religion. The only way Atheism is any different than Christianity is that Atheism choose to not have the burden of proof upon itself. You can't prove that God doesn't exist and you can't prove that he does exist.

Which is why I'm agnostic. I'm not so vain as to actually know such things... yet.

Asburd! Absolute nonsense! Ridiculous!

Atheism is not a faith. It's a lack of faith. Christianity is completely different to atheism being that Christianity is an organized religion, as opposed to atheism which simply NOT a religion--merely a belief that there is no god. Unlike atheism, belief in a god creates the need for rules and rituals.

So what do you guys think?  

[MaddyMouse]

Heh, I really need to get a life. xp  

[iviary]

Well, I suppose you could say it requires a certain amount of faith to believe there's absolutely no higher being out there. It's a different kind of faith than that of Christianity and other organized religions, but a faith nonetheless. Faith doesn't necessarily have to apply to belief in a deity. A true lack of faith would just be admitting to knowing nothing for sure; lacking faith in any certain belief. Personally, I don't know what's out there, in the way that some people know that God is looking out for them, or others know there's nothing of the sort. I lean more toward the latter, but I don't have complete faith in the idea.  

[Orson Welles]

I don't really see how there's any faith involved in Atheism. Atheism is a lack of any belief in a God. Whoever wrote you that PM is an idiot.  

[iMito]

There is a belief in atheism, the belief that there is no god(s). However, belief and faith are not the same thing. Faith is having faith that something exists. If we were to have "faith" in nothing, it would be completely contridictory to the true meaning of the word.  

[Sanguvixen]

Here: http://nowscape.com/mormon/faith_def.htm

Faith:
1. The idea that something can be made true, merely by wishing it to be so.
2. The proposition that something is true, even if there is no evidence to support it..
3. The belief that something is true, in spite of evidence to the contrary.

Also...something worth quoting from that site:

"Faith is something you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe."
-- Archie Bunker

 

[Amphex]

I don't consider atheism to be the same, considering, its more of a lack of faith in a diety's existance.  

[Rune WolfHaven]

I thought that an agnostic was one who didn't believe in any religions, while and atheist was only one who didn't believe in the religion of the country. Because as I believe in teh Greek Religion, I don't believe in Christianity, though...So who is he to talk? He needs to get his head out of his a** if you ask me.  

[iviary]

Dekoto

I thought that an agnostic was one who didn't believe in any religions, while and atheist was only one who didn't believe in the religion of the country. Because as I believe in teh Greek Religion, I don't believe in Christianity, though...So who is he to talk? He needs to get his head out of his a** if you ask me.

Not quite. An agnostic is one who just doesn't know; is skeptical, but doesn't claim absolutely whether or not there is a god. An atheist is someone who absolutely does not believe in a god. Theists absolutely believe in god(s). Atheists are the opposite of Theists, and agnostics fall somewhere in between.  

[Rune WolfHaven]

iviary

Dekoto

I thought that an agnostic was one who didn't believe in any religions, while and atheist was only one who didn't believe in the religion of the country. Because as I believe in teh Greek Religion, I don't believe in Christianity, though...So who is he to talk? He needs to get his head out of his a** if you ask me.

Not quite. An agnostic is one who just doesn't know; is skeptical, but doesn't claim absolutely whether or not there is a god. An atheist is someone who absolutely does not believe in a god. Theists absolutely believe in god(s). Atheists are the opposite of Theists, and agnostics fall somewhere in between.

Ah...Basically, what I got out of that was that agnostics are insecure about what they believe in. Atheists and theists are one who are sure. I still don't believe he has room to talk.  

[Dathu]

As far as Atheism being a religion, I think we can all agree that that's just obviously incorrect. But as far as Atheists being "vain," I don't think that was the word the writter was looking for. Vanity has more to do with a concern over one's appearence and little to do with confidence. I belive the word "presumptuous" fits in better.

Having clearified things, I don't believe Atheists are "presumptuous." We have simple done the math and calculated the odds, and it seems very unlikely that there is a god in the same sense that if you drop a ball it seems very unlikely that it won't fall. This doesn't mean it's impossible. There is a possibility that it may just float, but that possibility is remote. Theists believe that the ball will float because they have faith, Agnostics believe that because there is a chance (dispite how unlikely) that they shouldn't take a diffinitive stance (pussies who lack conviction), and Atheists believe it when they see it.  

[[ Amputated Freckle ]]

My idea of atheism is not faith that there absolutely is not a god, but more of a not believing that it is logical for a god to exist.

I don't usually say "There is no god," I say "I do not believe that there could logically be a god," and that seems like a big difference to me.

Maybe my atheism is a bit more agnostic, but I definitely lean less to "There may be a god, but I don't know," and more towards "There is no god."

I just think saying "There is no god" is a bit conclusive and unscientific, and also makes you out to be a forceful jerk.  

[Xiporah]

I agree with you Maddy. Faith is described as:

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

faith

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

I can see how someone could misconstrue an Athiest's lack of belief in God constituting as that person having "faith" that God does not exist, but I do not agree with that way of thinking.

As far as calling us vain for our beliefs? If that's the case, would the catholic nun be vain for her ABSOLUTE FAITH that God, does indeed exist?

 

[Napoleon_Danneskjold]

^ Isn't vanity supposed to be a sin? 00, can't win with god can ya?  

[DivideByZero14]

I find the entire concept of God a base offense of my humanity. That we are anything but the sole masters of our destiny is the product of a deranged mind.

By deranged, I mean, "not agreeing with me." xd