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 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:23 am
I need help brothers and sisters.
I believe being surrounded by godless/idle conversation- whether it be at home, at school, at work, etc..is unavoidable. Yet, I do know that even though we can't change what other people may say or how they act, we have control over our own conduct and speech.
So my question is...when I am with a group of people and they are all engaging in ungodly conversation, how am I to act? I'm afraid that being silent throughout it all will give the impression that I do not care or that I'm shunning them, or I am 'above them' or 'holier than thou'. Should I even say anything to contribute/give my 2 cents worth [in a godly fashion]? But how can godly conversation be even brought into an ungodly conversation? I'm not perfect by any means. This is something that I struggle with on a DAILY basis. And by struggle, I mean that I have given into ungodly conversation and sadly became a part of it [gossiping, laughing at certain jokes, agreeing with things that shouldn't be agreed with]. I don't want to hate myself- but I do hate how I am speaking/conversing with others. I have tried 2 ways of dealing with ungodly conversation. In one college program, I have separated myself [literally by sitting at the back of the class and not interacting much with people and taking part in their meaningless ungodly chatter]. That didn't turn out too well because I ended up being called weird, ended up feeling miserable and alone, and ended up with others viewing me as if I didn't like them at all-in fact, I strived to love them in my heart, but with me not taking part in any conversation [just keeping to myself and studying in class], it came off as me not liking them at all.
The other way I have dealt with ungodly conversation was me taking part in them. Agreeing, laughing, not making anyone feel like I didn't like them. And I stumbled onto a great reminder today "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."
Is there a middle ground somewhere? Does anyone know the struggle that I'm talking about?
#TheStruggleIsReal #IDoubtHashTagsAreEvenUsedInThisSite #IAmGenuinelyAskingForHelp #CollegeLife #DailyLife #WorkInProgress
#ThankYouToThoseWhoPrayedForMeLastTime #IHaveReadEachAndEverySingleOneOfThem
#IHopeToRespondToThisThreadThisTime
#StillNeedPrayersToPassPracticumForNursing
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:32 pm
I should probably clarify about the 'is there a middle ground somewhere'? part. What I mean is, is there a godly way to not take part in the conversation yet come off as loving and accepting of them as people at the same time?
Love is shown through actions more so/instead of in words, right?
"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth."- 1 John 3:18
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:28 pm
The Perfector of Your Faith
Ask yourself: what did Jesus do? He's the ultimate example.
When people tried to gossip, or speak badly about someone else—to tarnish their reputation, debase them, embarass them—Jesus drew attention to the one(s) speaking and made a comment to make the speaker(s) analyze themselves instead. Are you morally better off than them? like you've never done that same thing (or something similar)? By gossiping, the gossiper wants to paint the other person as the morally inferior one. So you have to make the speaker see how equally human (and just like them) that other person is. Humanize the one being belittled and hated on.
For instance, my family one day decided to speak badly about a very easy target: Michael Jackson. They were getting all cynical about his vitiligo, doubting it was a real disease, that he must hate his "race", what an offense to God he is (-_-'). So, I flipped the situation around on them and said something to the effect of, "how is that any different than you chemically coloring and straightening your hair? You guys are altering your body, in chemically-permanent ways, to look different than what God designed your hair to look like at birth. But you want to judge him for HOW he dealt with his autoimmune disease?". Sure, Michael Jackson did it for cosmetic reasons (to even out his skin tone instead of having to apply massive amounts of make-up to cover up his spots, make-up that he would just sweat away), but so did they: they chemically-altered parts of their body for purely cosmetic reasons. They tried to justify themselves, but logic won out. In spirit, they were doing nothing different than him, just to a lesser degree. If they had the same amount of money, they would've done some bigger alterations to their bodies, like he did, to deal with whatever insecurities they felt they had at the time. And at the end of the day, they had to admit, he was a person just like them. And they were just like him. Doing the same thing.
That little comment took seconds to make and I didn't have to say much after that; they reasoned it out amongst themselves. You just have to throw a little bit of salt at the situation once in a while. You don't have to be buddy-buddy with them the whole time. Just say enough to let them know you have nothing against having a conversation with them. Also helpful, keep eye contact with whomever is speaking. And then, when you do get around to speaking, unless you're responding to someone in specific, don't just stare at anyone person in particular; include them all in your gaze.
It should be expected (because of how you habitually respond, so start now) that your input will not be like theirs or of the world. Your input will be wise, impartial and compassionate—something you have to pray for. One of two things will happen: they'll accept it, and like hanging around you because of the wisdom and they're drawn to the light. Or, they'll find you annoying and evade you on purpose. If all of them hate the light, and start shunning you, then that's your cue to withdraw. But who knows, you might make a friend/find a fellow light-lover out of one (or a few) in the crowd.
When you know you'll be hanging around non-believers, you have to pray beforehand, before heading out to their place (or to school/work). Ask our Heavenly Father that he keep you focused on his perspective, how he views things, and to give you the boldness to speak his opinion, how he would view the matter. You will feel this burgeoning need to speak when things are ungodly. And pray throughout the conversation for an opportunity to open up which will allow you to speak a word that needs speaking and that will make them analyze themselves (and help humanize the one being demeaned).
The family I mentioned above are family members we did not live with, but we would always visit. I had to pray before going to their house and pray while in their midst when the conversation got worldly. All I wanted to do was talk Jesus and spiritual things. So it was torture when things got around to facebook, clicking through profiles, saying things like, "do you remember her? look how fat and ugly she got" (to which I correct them; that's hateful, would you like them talking that way about you when they looked at your profile"?). Certain issues were easier to correct by outright identifying their behavior as sin and pointing to a bible verse because they were all believers of some sort. Other times, I just kept it basic: treat others the way you want to be treated.
Back then, they accepted the nuggets of wisdom about their behavior. But lately, not so much—particularly when talking bible and obeying Jesus. So we've stopped hanging out. We were not going to keep quiet when they made blasphemous statements like, "the bible can't be trusted", "Jesus is a liar", "there is no absolute truth, no one can say the other is in error, how do we know if we're wrong anyway?". And because we wouldn't keep quiet, we had been causing major rifts lately, especially now that another aunt had joined the group (one day she'd be in agreement, but then start speaking like a new age mystic the next); so, they made it clear that they don't want to hear it anymore or have conversations touching on the same subject. Ergo, we don't go anymore (separation naturally happened). That household nurtured some relationships with other family members, and strangers, who don't submit to the bible as the ultimate authority, and prefer hanging out with them instead of us.
All of that to say: division will happen, naturally, without you having to push it. All you have to do is make sure you're being bold and adamant about biblical-truth and having Christ-like convictions. So if division happens, it better be because of that: unwaveringly standing on what Jesus said. Same for unity: make sure your acceptance in a group is because of your being bold and adamant about biblical-truth and having Christ-like convictions, expressing them, and them agreeing.
Some verses that come to mind:
Zechariah 8:16 (NIV)
16 These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts;
Exodus 23:2 (NIV)
2 “Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,
(Self-explanatory, but strive to speak the truth and be fair; don't side with someone or with a thought just because the crowd does)
Verses about how to deal with their gossip / belittling thoughts :
Luke 13:4-5 (NIV)
4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
(Jesus pointing out: y'all are the same as those who got killed and the same as the rest of the people in the community; stop trying to make yourselves feel better by thinking they were worse off than you; you're acting the same way, so unless you repent you will perish too.)
Luke 7:39-47 (NIV)
39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”
40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”
“Tell me, teacher,” he said.
41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[a] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”
“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.
44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”
Footnotes:
a. Luke 7:41 A denarius was the usual daily wage of a day laborer (see Matt. 20:2).
(Jesus essentially saying, "you might've been less sinful, but she is better than you at loving her Savior and being grateful"; so, when Person A tries to paint themselves as better than Person B, show them a great quality or great qualities in Person B).
Another kind of gossip and how to deal with it: there's a tendency for people to take the cowardly way out and instead of confronting a person they're having problems with, they approach you to complain about them. If this friend is complaining and fault-finding, just for the sake of complaining and fault-finding (with no solution-seeking intended) remind them: instead of speaking behind a person's back, speak directly to the person instead. Speak to the person, not about the person. Otherwise, nothing is going to get resolved between the two of you and you're just looking to express hate about them by talking about them to me (to which they deny that their intention is hate, but then you ask, "well you're not complaining about them to me out of love for them or anyone else are you?". Usually they admit it's not out of love. Sometimes, out of pride, and to save face, and if you're saying this in a group setting especially, some might say "yeah, it is out of love" but in their conscience they know they're not saying it out of love).
Not sure where to put this but, a good way into the conversation in the first place is to simply ask, what they are talking about:
Mark 9:16-17 (NIV)
16 “What are you arguing with them about?” he asked.
17 A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech.
And pray throughout for a way to resolve it or for a word of wisdom to share. And be the peacemaker they need.
One last note about gossip: remind them, "would you like someone speaking that way about you...? no? then don't speak that way about others. If they're going to ruin their reputation, let their actions do it. Not your mouth. They don't need your help." Again, a basic: treat others how you want to be treated, and the inverse: don't do to others what you wouldn't want done back to you.
In a nutshell, and in general, when a conversation crosses your path that day, pray: do you want me to say something? If so, tell me what to say and give me an opportunity to say it. If not, keep me from speaking. That is our whole goal of being in the presence of unbelievers. Whether religious unbelievers (like the Pharisees) or irreligious unbelievers.
2 Corinthians 10:5 (NIV)
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Don't forget to see them as human beings who have had their minds blinded by the ways of this world. And that you use to be just as blinded to the truth and blinded to how hateful and hurtful you were to others at one point. That will keep you from getting high and mighty over them.
And if God doesn't give you a word to say, at least pray that he orchestrate something in the lives of everyone who partook of—or listened to—the conversation that transpired in class: that he correct them, show them the truth, how their perspective is wrong, hateful, and that they're just as guilty of committing the same thing as the one they tried to belittle, or to open their eyes to the good qualities of that person they just tried to belittle.
About Laughing:
If it's just crass joking, I wouldn't laugh along on purpose. The thing about laughter though: I've said this before, but it's like God created this mechanism in man, an alert system, to let him know when his creations are acting shamefully, or that something happened that should not have happened / a malfunctioned occurred: someone falls down, people laugh; someone curses/uses obscene language, people laugh; a man cossdresses as a woman, people laugh. I can't speak in absolutes and say EVERY TIME laughter happens, something shameful just transpired, but from what I've observed, a good chunk of what the world laughs at is just that. Shameful things. A misuse of things. Puns make people laugh because it's a misuse of a word: it sounds like another word, but the meaning is totally different and not accurate to use in that circumstance. Misuse of words causes people to laugh. Incredulity makes people laugh (they find something too hard to be believed, so they laugh at it—like Sarah did when God said she would give birth to a son in her old age). Or we laugh because that shouldn't happen (old ladies giving birth; that's just not the natural order of things). People laugh at exaggerations (exaggerated expressions, reactions or stories); exaggerations are lies. So we laugh at them. That is our natural reaction. So don't feel bad if something shameful happens in front of you and you end up laughing at it. It's an indicator that something happened that is not quite right.
The perversion and sin happens when people seek the thrill of the laugh and do shameful things on purpose just to laugh; mankind has lost sight of the purpose behind laughter. Even when we laugh at animals for being "cute", it's because they're acting either stupidly, violently, cowardly, or some other exaggerated reaction (jumping at the TV screen because they think the thing on the screen is real, being lazy and disobedient, running away at a loud sound, etc). We don't laugh when animals behave in loving, smart, and impressive ways, we aw, awe or smile in that case. Laughter is reserved for shameful things.
But because people have been seeking laughter for the sake of the laugh, not because they recognize the behavior as shameful, I curb my laughter at certain jokes becaue I realize what it is they're doing: seeking applause and approval for acting shamefully on purpose.
In summary:
- humanize the one being hated on; force haters to put themselves in the place of the hated person; make them stand in the shoes of the person they're belittling. Are they really all that different?
- remind people to treat others how they would want to be treated back; we know it's right, but need to be reminded of this so badly and often
- don't follow the crowd; speak the truth, even if you're the only one. Fear God, not man. Value the truth above all else, not friendship.
- pray (and study Jesus' words) to know what Christ's perspective is; that will help you discern who he would side with—if he'd side with any in the conversation at all (all parties could be at fault and you need discernment to pinpoint where all of them are erring, if at all)
- pray for boldness to speak Christ's perspective on a matter
- pray for help to respond to the person with sympathy and gentleness
- pray when conversations cross your path that day, if you're meant to speak something, what to say and when to say it, if to say it
- if God doesn't provide the opportunity to jump in (and I can tell God is impeding because I constantly get cut off or we suddenly have to leave due to reasons outside of my control), then pray that God deals with them through circumstances that make them realize the truth, that they be convicted of their wrong-doing and turn away from it.
A lot of it has to do with prayer, focusing on Jesus, how he would respond and how he would have us respond.
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:36 pm
First of all, please don't feel miserable if you end up sitting alone. Truly following God means being part of minority. Even with Jesus and the many crowds, we see that only twelve men were his disciples, only three went to pray with him, and only one rested his head on his chest and took care of his family. Even with the Pharisees, two out of seventy one thought that Jesus was not guilty despite the fact that he hadn't really committed any crimes worthy of death. Know that the time you're sitting alone means you're not feeding on the wrong things, and that God is pleased by that! Secondly, I recommend either continuing to keep your distance (like Psalm 1:1 says) or even being bold and speaking up! Tell them you're not comfortable with the subject and that you wish to change the subject. It's always helpful to read up a bit on apologetics, as well, in case they question your discomfort. (I personally like Ravi Zacharias' videos, since they're often short and very to-the-point.) But that moment can be a moment of witnessing, for people to know your faith, even if they disagree. I would be careful with one thing, though. I know college life can be quite difficult and, wether we like it or not, we're all subject to wanting acceptance. As a former pushover (kind of former haha), I know people can go to great extremes to please others. So we have to really keep in check with ourselves and make sure we're not acting to please others. As Galatians 1:10 says, I wasn't really a servant of Christ when I was a total pushover and trying too hard to please others, and I truly feel the difference. There's lots of verses on this if you want to read any throughout the day for strengthening, but do know it's a perfectly natural tendency and just something to pray about and try to control. As a problem of mentality, it can be particularly hard. But, as pastor Jon Courson once pointed out (when speaking of false prophets), our motivation for holding back harsh words is often to be liked. I can't find the particular study right now, but we shouldn't be afraid of disagreeing, and doing so boldly is an exercise, really. Also don't be afraid to talk to God if you feel lonely! I sometimes just open up to God about how I don't feel well accommodated and am in need of friends, and in my honesty and frustration, He provides. Not always immediately, but I find that God knows when I need support most and sends just the right people that are also His servants to give me wise words or to just be there beside me and understand my situations. Good luck with college, in all aspects!
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 am
We can't help how others perceive us. If they see us coming as "holier then thou" so be it. If you think sitting away from them will help, then keep doing it. Don't let their words get to you, being deemed weird isn't to bad. In college I hardly talk to anyone, just because that is my nature. Some people back in HS deemed me unfriendly because of my dislike of talking to others or in general. It just happens. Try to find a christian group on your campus, that may help.
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