So I got into a debate with a guy online about God and religion. Well he started it, but he went on to say that in the original texts, the bible never spoke of Hell. While not having access to the old texts and not to sure where to start I decided to come here and ask, what does the original texts say about Hell? I'd rather get the information from fellow believers then non-believers.
Edit: I'd also like to point out I'm not wavering in faith. Well I am confused but that is the extent of it. I'm not doubting God at all.
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:34 am
911child
So I got into a debate with a guy online about God and religion. Well he started it, but he went on to say that in the original texts, the bible never spoke of Hell. While not having access to the old texts and not to sure where to start I decided to come here and ask, what does the original texts say about Hell? I'd rather get the information from fellow believers then non-believers.
Edit: I'd also like to point out I'm not wavering in faith. Well I am confused but that is the extent of it. I'm not doubting God at all.
Question: Which "hell" is he referring to?
the realm of the dead, which people go to upon death (Hades)?
or
the lake of fire (Gehenna), which only living / resurrected people get cast into and is on earth?
Regardless, they both appear in the Old Testament. The confusion in addressing these two different places arises because translators didn't stay consistent. In the Old Testament, they refer to the realm of the dead as "hell" (sometimes "grave"), but in the New Testament, they referred to more than just "the realm of the dead" by the term "hell": one use in the New Testament refers to a "realm of the dead" (like it is used in the Old Testament), and another place, which they also translated as "hell", is a place on earth and this latter one is never translated as "hell" in the Old Testament).
Starting with Hades:
One of the terms translated as "hell" in the New Testament is the Greek term "Hades" which is the "realm of the dead", where we go to upon death. "Hades" would be the equivalent of the Hebrew term "Sheol" (also the realm of the dead, and also translated as "hell" in the Old Testament).
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Matthew 11:23 (NIV)
23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[a] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 11:23 That is, the realm of the dead
Luke 16:23 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:23 (NIV)
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Sheol a.k.a. Hell (or Grave) in the Old Testament:
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isaiah 14:9 (NIV)
9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you— all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations.
Screen shot of the Hebrew term "Sheol":
source: http://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/14-9.htm
slight tangent: I know the NIV says it "rouses the spirits of the departed" (but that's not the Hebrew "ruach" / spirit / breath, but the Hebrew "rephaim" / shades). Nor does it use "nephesh" the Hebrew word for soul. I bring that up because I addressed how man is made up of three parts: body, soul, spirit and it is the soul that goes to the realm of the dead, in another thread [1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:6 Second chance?]; Isaiah 14:9 is unhelpful in deciphering which of the three parts of the human being goes to the realm of the dead. Just sayin').
Psalm 30:3 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Psalm 30:3 (KJV)
3 O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
Psalm 30:3 (NIV)
3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit.
Note: do not confuse this term "Sheol" for a gravestone/burial in a tomb type of "grave". The Hebrew has its own word for that: Qeber / Qeburah (not Sheol).
Sheol refers to the place where the angels carry away your soul to (i.e. Luke 16:22). Qeber / Qeburah is where fellow human beings bury your body (i.e. Genesis 23:6).
That said, the lake of fire (Gehenna) is also translated as "hell" in the New Testament, but the Old Testament doesn't refer to it as "hell". It is the literal garbage dump that would later come to represent the lake of fire. But the way Gehenna is used in the New Testament (not just a garbage dump, but a lake of fire) was prophesied about, and given the same use, in the Book of Isaiah.
Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Jesus quotes this passage in Isaiah, and when he does, the term "Gehenna" is used.
Mark 9:43-44 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
As you can see, only the New Testament refers to this place by the term "hell".
In Mark 9:43, where the term "hell" appears, it's the Greek Gehenna. That's how we know the term "Gehenna" is equivalent to the lake of fire.
Another term to familiarize yourself with is the Hebrew term "Tophet" because "Gehenna" is a Greek term. It appears once, also in the Book of Isaiah, in Isaiah 30:33.
Isaiah 30:33 (NIV)
33 Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.
Equivalent to:
Revelation 19:20 (NIV)
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 21:8 (NIV)
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
This reference to "Tophet" as the fire pit is difficult to find if you're looking up the phrase "lake of fire" or "hell" in a keyword search. But why Tophet came to symbolize the lake of fire: people would get burned in that valley. It is also known as the Valley of Hinnom. You can read more about that on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
This topic is not an easy thing to address because you need to show people evidence of what the Greek and Hebrew says.
The modern versions do a better job (though not the best job) at conveying the distinction between "Hades" (realm of the dead) and "Gehenna" (lake of fire) that are found in the New Testament. And once you know the difference between the two, it's easier to find where the Old Testament makes reference to them.
So, yes, these concepts existed in the Old Testament.
(Hi i'm Cristalia, i wrote this just now and warn that any highly opinionated people must proceed with caution because i recognize that MANY of these ideas are unfamiliar to many folks and i don't wish to overwhelm or upset those who want simple answers. I attempted a simple answer but i hope that this is at least helpful in answering some concepts for you. As none of this is my own opinion, just the things i came to realize in learning about my god and wondering why i worship him. Of course as you might tell, i have no doubt at all why i worship him now, and i know that it won't be the same for you when you read this, but i hope it's helpful. Try looking at it a a long story, a very historical one at that. I did not include any history lessons or else it would have been much longer hehe.)
(I hope i was as objective as humanly possible for this, i don't want any drama, emotion, or impoliteness in my writing. If you have a response to any of this, just write me =3)
There is more correlation between hell and the end of the world than anything. Punishments and rewards for human kind in the way we imagine is all very simple, the idea that people live on but keep being punished for things they did before when they existed is a human idea, like jail, torture, or slavery. (Slavery being a most unjust human idea that is never condoned by jesus.)
The result of everyone's existence is that they either perish or resurrect when Jesus arrives on earth again to retrieve his followers and deliver them to the kingdom of heaven. Even the people who crucified him will be brought back into temporary existence to witness his return, and then eventually every remaining unsaved sinner will take their punishment in 'hell'
What will take place is that Earth with become a blazing fireball of destruction, permanently obliterating all sin from existence in God's perfect universe. After that, never again will this be repeated, all sinners taking place on earth will have the same kind of death that Jesus had on the cross. But their souls will permanently not exist, along with satan and his fallen angels who will be the last ever to be corrupted and condemned.
God made it this way, and when he takes his disciples on earth to heaven , they will exist forever because they are suitable for this new kind of life. These people are never to sin again, and they will be rewarded because of it. God will prevent sin from ever existing again, and out of all the perfect creatures in his universe, humans will take a special place with god in his world, and he will establish a new kingdom on earth after sin is destroyed.
If we suffer like jesus did for the sake of the lives of others, our reward is eternal life. This is what out lives are for, we exist to be given a choice, no one said that Jesus made this choice for us. Even if he did go through all the pain of rescuing us from sin, it only means that our decision to worship him can no longer be prevented by existing in this world of sin, now we can choose to reject sin and pursue he who is our worthy king and savior.
So no, hell is not an earthly dwelling place, as we sit here and think, it hasn't even come to be yet. Anyone who has died in the past is silently sleeping in the hands of god until EVERYone is ready to be judged. No one exists after death until god says so, there is no rewarding or punishing until the designated time, there are no guiding spirits or haunting ghosts. All those are lies, and lies are a threat to the truth, so can you imagine how much satan loves lies? Lies like that get all the support from demons who only seek to doom the existence of any human that seeks the light.
The bible says to ignore the lies and seek the truth, stay firm to any truths you hold in your heart because this world is going to be filled with lies and disasters, as everything is being prepared for the arrival of Jesus in the end. Good people will be fully exposed and persecuted when evil becomes desperate and takes measures to try and secure it's escape from being punished. No one will be in the middle, because the systems and society will no longer be suitable for comfortable non-opinionated personalities. Things will change, and be unrecognizable by anyone existing now who assume change is impossible.
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:23 pm
cristobela
911child
So I got into a debate with a guy online about God and religion. Well he started it, but he went on to say that in the original texts, the bible never spoke of Hell. While not having access to the old texts and not to sure where to start I decided to come here and ask, what does the original texts say about Hell? I'd rather get the information from fellow believers then non-believers.
Edit: I'd also like to point out I'm not wavering in faith. Well I am confused but that is the extent of it. I'm not doubting God at all.
Question: Which "hell" is he referring to?
the realm of the dead, which people go to upon death (Hades)?
or
the lake of fire (Gehenna), which only living / resurrected people get cast into and is on earth?
Regardless, they both appear in the Old Testament. The confusion in addressing these two different places arises because translators didn't stay consistent. In the Old Testament, they refer to the realm of the dead as "hell" (sometimes "grave"), but in the New Testament, they referred to more than just "the realm of the dead" by the term "hell": one use in the New Testament refers to a "realm of the dead" (like it is used in the Old Testament), and another place, which they also translated as "hell", is a place on earth and this latter one is never translated as "hell" in the Old Testament).
Starting with Hades:
One of the terms translated as "hell" in the New Testament is the Greek term "Hades" which is the "realm of the dead", where we go to upon death. "Hades" would be the equivalent of the Hebrew term "Sheol" (also the realm of the dead, and also translated as "hell" in the Old Testament).
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Matthew 11:23 (NIV)
23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[a] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 11:23 That is, the realm of the dead
Luke 16:23 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:23 (NIV)
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Sheol a.k.a. Hell (or Grave) in the Old Testament:
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Isaiah 14:9 (KJV)
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isaiah 14:9 (NIV)
9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you— all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations.
Screen shot of the Hebrew term "Sheol":
source: http://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/14-9.htm
slight tangent: I know the NIV says it "rouses the spirits of the departed" (but that's not the Hebrew "ruach" / spirit / breath, but the Hebrew "rephaim" / shades). Nor does it use "nephesh" the Hebrew word for soul. I bring that up because I addressed how man is made up of three parts: body, soul, spirit and it is the soul that goes to the realm of the dead, in another thread [1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:6 Second chance?]; Isaiah 14:9 is unhelpful in deciphering which of the three parts of the human being goes to the realm of the dead. Just sayin').
Psalm 30:3 (KJV-NIV comparison)
Psalm 30:3 (KJV)
3 O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
Psalm 30:3 (NIV)
3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit.
Note: do not confuse this term "Sheol" for a gravestone/burial in a tomb type of "grave". The Hebrew has its own word for that: Qeber / Qeburah (not Sheol).
Sheol refers to the place where the angels carry away your soul to (i.e. Luke 16:22). Qeber / Qeburah is where fellow human beings bury your body (i.e. Genesis 23:6).
That said, the lake of fire (Gehenna) is also translated as "hell" in the New Testament, but the Old Testament doesn't refer to it as "hell". It is the literal garbage dump that would later come to represent the lake of fire. But the way Gehenna is used in the New Testament (not just a garbage dump, but a lake of fire) was prophesied about, and given the same use, in the Book of Isaiah.
Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Jesus quotes this passage in Isaiah, and when he does, the term "Gehenna" is used.
Mark 9:43-44 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
As you can see, only the New Testament refers to this place by the term "hell".
In Mark 9:43, where the term "hell" appears, it's the Greek Gehenna. That's how we know the term "Gehenna" is equivalent to the lake of fire.
Another term to familiarize yourself with is the Hebrew term "Tophet" because "Gehenna" is a Greek term. It appears once, also in the Book of Isaiah, in Isaiah 30:33.
Isaiah 30:33 (NIV)
33 Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.
Equivalent to:
Revelation 19:20 (NIV)
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 21:8 (NIV)
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
This reference to "Tophet" as the fire pit is difficult to find if you're looking up the phrase "lake of fire" or "hell" in a keyword search. But why Tophet came to symbolize the lake of fire: people would get burned in that valley. It is also known as the Valley of Hinnom. You can read more about that on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
This topic is not an easy thing to address because you need to show people evidence of what the Greek and Hebrew says.
The modern versions do a better job (though not the best job) at conveying the distinction between "Hades" (realm of the dead) and "Gehenna" (lake of fire) that are found in the New Testament. And once you know the difference between the two, it's easier to find where the Old Testament makes reference to them.
So, yes, these concepts existed in the Old Testament.
I wager the hell he refers to is the fire and brimstone one.
But just to see if I understand (I struggle with reading so I think I may have missed something), but the bible in the original text talks about the place where we physically die and where those who were not saved go?
(Hi i'm Cristalia, i wrote this just now and warn that any highly opinionated people must proceed with caution because i recognize that MANY of these ideas are unfamiliar to many folks and i don't wish to overwhelm or upset those who want simple answers. I attempted a simple answer but i hope that this is at least helpful in answering some concepts for you. As none of this is my own opinion, just the things i came to realize in learning about my god and wondering why i worship him. Of course as you might tell, i have no doubt at all why i worship him now, and i know that it won't be the same for you when you read this, but i hope it's helpful. Try looking at it a a long story, a very historical one at that. I did not include any history lessons or else it would have been much longer hehe.)
(I hope i was as objective as humanly possible for this, i don't want any drama, emotion, or impoliteness in my writing. If you have a response to any of this, just write me =3)
There is more correlation between hell and the end of the world than anything. Punishments and rewards for human kind in the way we imagine is all very simple, the idea that people live on but keep being punished for things they did before when they existed is a human idea, like jail, torture, or slavery. (Slavery being a most unjust human idea that is never condoned by jesus.)
The result of everyone's existence is that they either perish or resurrect when Jesus arrives on earth again to retrieve his followers and deliver them to the kingdom of heaven. Even the people who crucified him will be brought back into temporary existence to witness his return, and then eventually every remaining unsaved sinner will take their punishment in 'hell'
What will take place is that Earth with become a blazing fireball of destruction, permanently obliterating all sin from existence in God's perfect universe. After that, never again will this be repeated, all sinners taking place on earth will have the same kind of death that Jesus had on the cross. But their souls will permanently not exist, along with satan and his fallen angels who will be the last ever to be corrupted and condemned.
God made it this way, and when he takes his disciples on earth to heaven , they will exist forever because they are suitable for this new kind of life. These people are never to sin again, and they will be rewarded because of it. God will prevent sin from ever existing again, and out of all the perfect creatures in his universe, humans will take a special place with god in his world, and he will establish a new kingdom on earth after sin is destroyed.
If we suffer like jesus did for the sake of the lives of others, our reward is eternal life. This is what out lives are for, we exist to be given a choice, no one said that Jesus made this choice for us. Even if he did go through all the pain of rescuing us from sin, it only means that our decision to worship him can no longer be prevented by existing in this world of sin, now we can choose to reject sin and pursue he who is our worthy king and savior.
So no, hell is not an earthly dwelling place, as we sit here and think, it hasn't even come to be yet. Anyone who has died in the past is silently sleeping in the hands of god until EVERYone is ready to be judged. No one exists after death until god says so, there is no rewarding or punishing until the designated time, there are no guiding spirits or haunting ghosts. All those are lies, and lies are a threat to the truth, so can you imagine how much satan loves lies? Lies like that get all the support from demons who only seek to doom the existence of any human that seeks the light.
The bible says to ignore the lies and seek the truth, stay firm to any truths you hold in your heart because this world is going to be filled with lies and disasters, as everything is being prepared for the arrival of Jesus in the end. Good people will be fully exposed and persecuted when evil becomes desperate and takes measures to try and secure it's escape from being punished. No one will be in the middle, because the systems and society will no longer be suitable for comfortable non-opinionated personalities. Things will change, and be unrecognizable by anyone existing now who assume change is impossible.
The bible doesn't exactly disapprove of slavery, but not the slavery we think of. In the bible, there were rules which the slave and slave owner had to follow. Obviously the slave had to do the owners bidding, but the slave owner couldn't be abusive to the slave and had to feed, clothe and shelter him/her. Generally it was a means of gaining something from someone, like a deal. Say the slave (before being a slave) wanted the owner to give him 15 boxes of grapes, they would then make a deal and the one wanting the grapes would enter bondsmenship with the grape owner for a set amount of years, the max being 7 I believe. After the deal has been met, he can be set free or continue to work for the owner but permanently. The choice would be up to the slave and the same rules would apply outside the 7 year rule.
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:33 pm
Also I'll just put it here instead of making another thread. The same friend said that the story of Noah is a copy of a story of a mythological story of Gilgamesh. I'll be quite honest I only know of Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy 12. He went on to say it was written years before the story of Noah by the first people to use a written language (which strikes me as hilarious as people often say that we don't know when the bible was written but this, which is apparently before the story of Noah is years before and by a society years before yet we 'know' they wrote it.)
So, I wanted to bring this up also, as I am curious. I will try to do some research myself, but again I prefer getting biblical info from Christians.
Edit: I found this, which is pretty neat and pretty much answers my question
IDK, but i've been told before that the flood is what caused Pangea to break into several continents, explains the extinction of dinosaurs, and the marine fossils found on mountains. I don't know much about Gilgamesh, we can discuss what you found on the website though.
Also i just think hell doesn't exist until the end comes? and sin is totally destroyed?
I never read into topics like slavery, but it's interesting what you said before about it being consensual in the bible. I'll have to look it up. Come to think of it. Lots of characters do own servants and laborers, is this what you talked about?
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:18 pm
911child
I wager the hell he refers to is the fire and brimstone one.
But just to see if I understand (I struggle with reading so I think I may have missed something), but the bible in the original text talks about the place where we physically die and where those who were not saved go?
Assuming that by "original texts" you mean "the Hebrew and the Greek", then the original texts reveal:
(1) Qeber / Qeburah / Mnémeion (a burial place for the body) [I did not address the Greek term in my previous reply: quick example in the spoiler]
The Greek term for "burial place":
Matthew 27:60 (KJV)
60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
(2) Sheol / Hades (a place where both the righteous and wicked go to upon death a.k.a. the realm of the dead)
(3) Tophet / Valley of Hinnom / Gehenna (a place where the bodies of the unrepentant get burned by fire, "where the worm dieth not"; people are either cast in alive (Revelation 19:20), or must be resurrected from the dead first (Revelation 20:11-15), ergo alive, before getting cast in.
I reckon this is where the "destruction of the heavens and earth by fire"—mentioned in 2 Peter 3:7,10,12—comes in. And where I would place this, in light of Revelation 20, where it mentions fire raining down from heaven (after the 1000 years of Jesus' reign) to devour those coming to fight against the city he loved (Revelation 20:7-10); this earth and these heavens disappear one verse later in verse 11.
verses in the spoiler:
2 Peter 3:7 (NIV)
7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2 Peter 3:10 (NIV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
Footnotes:
a. 2 Peter 3:10 Some manuscripts be burned up
2 Peter 3:12 (NIV)
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[a] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
Footnotes:
a. 2 Peter 3:12 Or as you wait eagerly for the day of God to come
Revelation 20:7-11 (NIV)
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
I wager the hell he refers to is the fire and brimstone one.
But just to see if I understand (I struggle with reading so I think I may have missed something), but the bible in the original text talks about the place where we physically die and where those who were not saved go?
Assuming that by "original texts" you mean "the Hebrew and the Greek", then the original texts reveal:
(1) Qeber / Qeburah / Mnémeion (a burial place for the body) [I did not address the Greek term in my previous reply: quick example in the spoiler]
The Greek term for "burial place":
Matthew 27:60 (KJV)
60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
(2) Sheol / Hades (a place where both the righteous and wicked go to upon death a.k.a. the realm of the dead)
(3) Tophet / Valley of Hinnom / Gehenna (a place where the bodies of the unrepentant get burned by fire, "where the worm dieth not"; people are either cast in alive (Revelation 19:20), or must be resurrected from the dead first (Revelation 20:11-15), ergo alive, before getting cast in.
I reckon this is where the "destruction of the heavens and earth by fire"—mentioned in 2 Peter 3:7,10,12—comes in. And where I would place this, in light of Revelation 20, where it mentions fire raining down from heaven (after the 1000 years of Jesus' reign) to devour those coming to fight against the city he loved (Revelation 20:7-10); this earth and these heavens disappear one verse later in verse 11.
verses in the spoiler:
2 Peter 3:7 (NIV)
7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2 Peter 3:10 (NIV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
Footnotes:
a. 2 Peter 3:10 Some manuscripts be burned up
2 Peter 3:12 (NIV)
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[a] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
Footnotes:
a. 2 Peter 3:12 Or as you wait eagerly for the day of God to come
Revelation 20:7-11 (NIV)
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
To be quite honest, I don't know what he means by original text, I am assuming Hebrew.
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:45 pm
Cristaliacat15
IDK, but i've been told before that the flood is what caused Pangea to break into several continents, explains the extinction of dinosaurs, and the marine fossils found on mountains. I don't know much about Gilgamesh, we can discuss what you found on the website though.
Also i just think hell doesn't exist until the end comes? and sin is totally destroyed?
I never read into topics like slavery, but it's interesting what you said before about it being consensual in the bible. I'll have to look it up. Come to think of it. Lots of characters do own servants and laborers, is this what you talked about?
To be honest, I always assumed that when Satan rebelled and man first sinned that Hell was made. I am unsure of any verse that says when Hell was made exactly.
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