A few questions about The Lost Road

[Elainya]

I was at the bookstore this morning looking for a copy of the complete works of The History of Middle Earth. I had never even heeard of this particular book, and I saw it, and I bought it. I only learned after reading Christopher Tolkien's excerpt that it's the last book in The History of Middle Earth. So, I started reading. I'm not far into it, yet, but already I have a few questions, and several comments.

My first comment is that I was not expecting it to be as easy to read as it is. It's very matter-of-fact, and doesn't have to droning details that are typical of Tolkien's other works. Is this because it's still just in the stages of being notes and ideas, nothing more, or because it's a different style?

Secondly, I though it was funny to learn that Numenore was only a concept invented because Tolkien and C.S Lewis had a challenge to write a Science Fiction novel. It makes me really want to get ahold of Out of the Silent Planet. So, onto my questions.

1) The ships that could sail into Wilwa but not Ilmen. So that means that the Numenorians had airplanes, but not space ships, right?

2) Numenor or Atalante, which is it, and what's the difference between the two names?

3) Gnomes???????

4)Fionwe Son of Manwe. I'm taking this to mean Finwe. So, in Tolkien's original ideas, Manwe's son was Finwe?  

[Falathrim]

The Lost Road and Other Writings is actually the fifth of twelve; however, it is the last to have been published by Del Rey of Ballantine Books or whatever the hell it was. If you want the seven books that come after HoMe V, you'll need to look elsewhere.

Secondly, the Numenorean legends contained within HoMe V can be traced back to the 30s, I believe, and several of the concepts contained within were later rejected. The Numenoreans were always had technological superiority over all other races during the Fading Years, going so far as to develop steel bows, cannons, gunpowder, etc., but I doubt they managed to get as far as airplanes, or at least in what is accepted by the fans as the true "canon."

Finally... didn't you say you hadn't finished reading the published Silmarillion a few days ago? Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me, but if this is true, I'd recommend you drop HoMe this very instant and finish that up. Starting HoMe before finishing the published Silmarillion is most unwise.  

[Elainya]

*Takes notes*

Okay, I'll finish The Silmarillion. I hope it gets easier than it is right now. Thanks for the advice. I had no idea that HoME was so huge.  

[Falathrim]

 

[Glorfirith Annun]

It's so huge Elainya, it stretches the page xd  

[Falathrim]

I am, by the way, hoping someone else addresses your other points. You know, what with this being a discussion guild, and there being more people in here than me and you.

...wishful thinking?

EDIT: I'd also suggest you read Unfinished Tales after you finish the published Silmarillion. This is because it's more interesting and gives you a better understanding of the tales in the published Silmarillion, allowing you to more easily digest the information contained within HoMe.  

[Onoj]

Falathrim

I am, by the way, hoping someone else addresses your other points. You know, what with this being a discussion guild, and there being more people in here than me and you.

...wishful thinking?

I have never read it. So no help from me. sweatdrop  

[Glorfirith Annun]

Gnomes! I love gnomes... that so confused me the first time I read whatever it was that I read about gnomes.

They're the Noldor I'm pretty sure. Why gnomes, I have no idea. I read it at some point though. I used to know this. I think I like them being called Noldor better.

Happy Fala? Discussion... about gnomes... or a comment about gnomes. If I'm right of course.  

[Falathrim]

*sigh*

When you do start reading HoMe, it'll probably be easiest if you read it in order. Many of the questions you have could be answered by reading the first chapter of HoMe I.

1) The ships that could sail into Wilwa but not Ilmen. So that means that the Numenorians had airplanes, but not space ships, right?

See above.

2) Numenor or Atalante, which is it, and what's the difference between the two names?

Numenor is the name of the kingdom. Atalante is an Elvish word meaning "The Downfallen", and is only applied after the Downfall of Numenor. Notice the intentional resemblance of Atalante to the word "Atlantis".

3) Gnomes???????

A name that Tolkien gave to the Noldor, but later rejected because the modern day conception of the Gnome was far too much at variance with the tall, fair, strong in body Noldor he imagined. Gnome means 'wisdom'.

4)Fionwe Son of Manwe. I'm taking this to mean Finwe. So, in Tolkien's original ideas, Manwe's son was Finwe?

Originally, the Ainur could have kids. Actually, in later versions, the Ainur could still have kids; yet the Valar never did this. Fionwe is not Finwe. Rather, Fionwe Son of Manwe was turned into Eonwe Herald of Manwe.

EDIT: Actually, HoMe really comes in four sets. Pre-LotR Silmarillion is HoMe I-V. LotR HoMe is VI-IX. Post-LotR Silmarillion is X-XI. And HoMe XII stands alone as the LotR Appendix HoMe. You can read each set in whichever order you want, I suppose, but if you want to read it all by some point (far easier said than done), it's easiest if you start at the beginning of a set and work upwards.

Poorly worded, but bah.

EDIT2: Figures that I post about Gnomes just as Glorfy attempts to start a discussion. crying  

[Elainya]

I have a copy of Unfinished Tales, but well--I never finished it. In fact I never started it, after I realized that there was no way I was going to understand it. So, as soon as I finish The Silmarillion, then, I shall.

*Sigh* But HoME started out so easy to read, too.

Yeah, and I like the gnome discussion. I thought they were the Dwarves, but they might be the Noldor. *Shrug* gnomes like to tinker, Noldor like to make things...perhaps.

EDIT: Never mind ^,^ I love posting at the same time as someone else. Well, it all makes sense then.  

[Rhaella]

Falathrim

The Lost Road and Other Writings is actually the fifth of twelve; however, it is the last to have been published by Del Rey of Ballantine Books or whatever the hell it was. If you want the seven books that come after HoMe V, you'll need to look elsewhere.

Yeah, reading that one the cover kind of confused me as well. confused The whole... "um, yeah, I know I've read parts of 10, 11, and 12..." sweatdrop

That's quite a collection there, Fala. Is that a calc book I see? gonk

If I remember correctly, Gnomes was the old term for the Noldor that was finally discarded because of the association with quite ugly, unelflike creatures, which was obviously not what Tolkien had in mind. However, the name itself is quite fitting, since it's from the Greek root "gnosis", which means knowledge. And Noldor itself is related to the Quenya word "nole", which means wisdom. whee

Would you mind if I commented briefly on HoME 4 here instead? sweatdrop If it's off topic, just ignore it.

I was just reading the Sketch of the Mythology earlier, and was quite amused at how Maglor and/or Maedhros kept on coming back to life... And how Maglor apparently took the Silmaril, and then Elwing suddenly had it, and how... OMG! Is this implying that the Feanorions killed each other? gonk  

[Melian]

Falathrim

*sigh*

When you do start reading HoMe, it'll probably be easiest if you read it in order. Many of the questions you have could be answered by reading the first chapter of HoMe I.

I was wondering if you were supposed to read them in order.. ;D *keeps this in mind*

I have to go. ninja  

[Falathrim]

Melian

Falathrim

*sigh*

When you do start reading HoMe, it'll probably be easiest if you read it in order. Many of the questions you have could be answered by reading the first chapter of HoMe I.

I was wondering if you were supposed to read them in order.. ;D *keeps this in mind*

I have to go. ninja

That, of course, assumes you want to read it all. I certainly wouldn't advise reading BoLT if you'd find it a chore and simply don't care.  

[Zurgi]

Yeah, I found BoLT to be pretty hard to read in parts, although very interesting in the end *shrugs* But I know a lot of friends of mine just got turned off the whole HoME because of BoLT.  

[SYFFER]

Falathrim you did it again crying you beat me to this topic. I read HoME 5 a while back but it's still fresh in my mind. I would like to be uselfull however so I'll reveal a bit of additional information about Fionwe. Fionwe is the son of Manwe.

I believe that he was created much in the same way as Men and Elves are and was not created from his parent's thought as Orome was. In Book of Lost Tales 1, I read that Melkor would create a dispute between Ilisnor of the Moon and Urwendi of the Sun.

Ilisnor would chase Urwendi throught the gates of night into the emptiness and thus the door will be destroyed. As the world is left in darkness and Urwendi, whom Fionwe loves, is locked away forever, Fionwe arises in rage and to destroy his foe, Melkor, he destroys Arda. The spirits of Men, Elves, and the Ainur will gather one last time to sing a new hymn after the Great End.


There! I was uselfull whee