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 Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:05 am
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Sobbing Starlight
I think most of you guys will be happy to hear that since there has been no developements with that out-of-country move I was going to have go through with, I have no need to find new homes for/cull the guppies. (:
Hopefully there will be no need for me to move in the near future. Therefore, I don't need input on this situation any longer~
Feel free to discuss this as a general issue among fishkeepers though. If you have any personal experiences in making a difficult decision such as this, please share them!
Hello everyone!
I have some advice to ask about the future of my 55gal freshwater. Currently I have around 30 guppies in it. (Used to have Goldfish in it, butI moved them to another tank.) I want to take the tank from a guppy tank to a planted community tank. Before I take the necessary steps toward doing this, I believe I need to decrease the number of my guppies.
It's a little hard for me, because I am attached to them all. No shops in my area will take fish from an individual for some reason and I'm not sure I can find new homes for them.
I feel bad for thinking of sending them to the big Fish Pond in the sky, but I just don't want to be tied to this many of only one type of fish. All of them are reletively healthy as well, so it's not like I can make the decisions by who has a gammy fin, or who is a little retarded, or who is missing an eye (zomgs ew).
Questions for you guys:
Have you ever been faced with the decision of who to get rid of in your tank (due to over-population, or other reasons)?
How did you go about selecting who to keep and who to get rid of? (If you never actually had to do this, what do you think you might base your decisions on if you were in that position?) |
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:08 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:38 pm
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:18 pm
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:49 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:46 pm
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.Prince_Sushi. Its pretty horrible just to kill off your fish because you want to switch the tank into something else. Is that fair to them? Thats like putting your dog to sleep because you saw a new one that you wan't. Please try to find the fish a good home, if it comes down to it, GIVE THEM AWAY. Don't' worry about selling them. Lots of people love guppies because they are easy to care for and because they give birth to live babies. Almost any fish lover would take them for free. Heck, I would if I loved near you.
You could also sell them on Aquabid or ebay, or at least use either site to advertise so that you could give them away.Ask friends or family if they would like them!
I never said anything about not being able to sell them. I have no interest in selling them. Though I did mention that I haven't been able to give them away. However, I still am looking. I will give them away if I can. My mother suggested giving them away to the neighborehood kids, and I told her I would kill them before putting them through that kind of torture.
What would you do if your only choices were between culling and handing your beloved fish over to a snotty 6 year old kid. I can assure you that my fish would be belly up (or worse) in a week's time if I handed it over to just anyone.
I will cull some of them if it comes down to it, but for now I have plenty of time to try and find them homes. I live in the middle of nowhere, so yes, it's difficult to just give them away. Not everyone has friends and family too. The only people I know are the people in my household.
This is much different than killing your dog because you get tired of it and want a new one. It is not as if I bought these guppies. I am faced with this guppy-mob because I did my best to save every single fry that I came across from my original two guppies. So being "fair" is what how I ended up like this, isn't it? (:
I am all for being kind to your fish and doing everything you can for them, because after all, they are your responsibility. But I can only go so far out of my way for them. |
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:52 am
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L u c i u s .Prince_Sushi. Its pretty horrible just to kill off your fish because you want to switch the tank into something else. Is that fair to them? Thats like putting your dog to sleep because you saw a new one that you wan't. Please try to find the fish a good home, if it comes down to it, GIVE THEM AWAY. Don't' worry about selling them. Lots of people love guppies because they are easy to care for and because they give birth to live babies. Almost any fish lover would take them for free. Heck, I would if I loved near you.
You could also sell them on Aquabid or ebay, or at least use either site to advertise so that you could give them away.Ask friends or family if they would like them!
I never said anything about not being able to sell them. I have no interest in selling them. Though I did mention that I haven't been able to give them away. However, I still am looking. I will give them away if I can. My mother suggested giving them away to the neighborehood kids, and I told her I would kill them before putting them through that kind of torture. What would you do if your only choices were between culling and handing your beloved fish over to a snotty 6 year old kid. I can assure you that my fish would be belly up (or worse) in a week's time if I handed it over to just anyone. I will cull some of them if it comes down to it, but for now I have plenty of time to try and find them homes. I live in the middle of nowhere, so yes, it's difficult to just give them away. Not everyone has friends and family too. The only people I know are the people in my household. This is much different than killing your dog because you get tired of it and want a new one. It is not as if I bought these guppies. I am faced with this guppy-mob because I did my best to save every single fry that I came across from my original two guppies. So being "fair" is what how I ended up like this, isn't it? (: I am all for being kind to your fish and doing everything you can for them, because after all, they are your responsibility. But I can only go so far out of my way for them.
I don't recomend buying any other fish until you have found propper homes for your current fish. That is the factor that is unfair to the fish. If you are just getting rid of them to buy new fish then that is bad but if you are over run and need help then thats great that you are being a good fish mommy. I'm sure you have plenty of time(sorry if I'm wrong) if you just give up on the other fish for now. Besides, how are you going to keep the new fish from breeding and turning into another guppy situation?
In my opinion it is still like a dog. If you bought two dogs and they had babies, the babies are still your responsiblity. Its like a lesson. Either get your pets fixed(not possible on fish x_x), get only one or get pets of the same gender.
It doesn't matter if you bought them, by owning and breeding them you are taking resonsiblity for them. It was nice of you to save the fry but you should have had homes arranged before they became adults or maybe even before being born.
I breed bettas and always come up with plans and back up plans for getting rid of fry. I have yet to ever cull a fry(except ones that where to weak or messed up to live a normal life) because I am always ready.
I would try giving them to the kid. You have to give him a chance. Everyone learns someway and besides no good parent would dare leave a fish tank and fish for a 6 year old to care for all by himself. A kid can't just do it. You could go tot the parents and explain that you are in a tight spot and if they say they can help you can give them info on caring for guppies. Maybe you could write up a caresheet for guppies?
If there is nothing else in your 55 gallon then 30 guppies should beable to live there fine. Just don't let them breed. You could divide the tank into a male side and a female side and then they could breed. |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:16 pm
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.Prince_Sushi. I don't recomend buying any other fish until you have found propper homes for your current fish. That is the factor that is unfair to the fish. If you are just getting rid of them to buy new fish then that is bad but if you are over run and need help then thats great that you are being a good fish mommy. I'm sure you have plenty of time(sorry if I'm wrong) if you just give up on the other fish for now. Besides, how are you going to keep the new fish from breeding and turning into another guppy situation?
In my opinion it is still like a dog. If you bought two dogs and they had babies, the babies are still your responsiblity. Its like a lesson. Either get your pets fixed(not possible on fish x_x), get only one or get pets of the same gender.
It doesn't matter if you bought them, by owning and breeding them you are taking resonsiblity for them. It was nice of you to save the fry but you should have had homes arranged before they became adults or maybe even before being born.
I breed bettas and always come up with plans and back up plans for getting rid of fry. I have yet to ever cull a fry(except ones that where to weak or messed up to live a normal life) because I am always ready.
I would try giving them to the kid. You have to give him a chance. Everyone learns someway and besides no good parent would dare leave a fish tank and fish for a 6 year old to care for all by himself. A kid can't just do it. You could go tot the parents and explain that you are in a tight spot and if they say they can help you can give them info on caring for guppies. Maybe you could write up a caresheet for guppies?
If there is nothing else in your 55 gallon then 30 guppies should beable to live there fine. Just don't let them breed. You could divide the tank into a male side and a female side and then they could breed.
I wasn't intending on buying new fish until I had found a solution to the guppy problem I had now. I don't really remember insinuating that I was, actually. XD
I did, however, mention how I was going to keep from getting into this situation again. That would be to just let nature run it's course in the tank (well as much as it can in a tank anyway..) and if a fry survives, good for it. Only one out of each batch has survived so far since I have started doing this, and that is mostly because my little sister scoops them up and puts them in her fry tank before I can catch her at it. (Of course then I don't have the heart to put the little ******** back into the main aquarium, because I know I will have a hand in it's demise.)
I wasn't planning on adding live-bearers to the tank again either. I was going to leave some guppies in, because I know if I do not try and save the fry I wont get over populated again.
About fish being like dogs.. I don't know about where you live, but I know for a fact that people are less likely to adopt a fish than a dog. But can I see where you are coming from.
Also, you are a breeder. You expect (and hope) for fry. Naturally you would have ample living-space prepaired for the little arrivals before they are even a twinkle in their mother's eye.
As a breeder, you should know that even if I did not buy a male and a female pair and instead bought a female alone, there is a high chance of her already being pregnant when I buy her (which she was, however since I was and still am a beginner fish-keeper, I did not know much about what I was getting myself into at the time). I did not breed them intentionally, the little heffer got knocked up all on her own. xD
Now on to the topic of whether or not to leave the guppies to a screaming 6 year old... I seriously don't know what type of people or families you are used to seeing, but where I live parents leaving their kids alone to care for fish is not unlikely at all, since most people leave their children unattended nearly all day while they are at work or elsewhere. You have to understand that not all places are exactly what you are accustomed to.
Also, when I was a kid I had a 10 gallon aquarium that I took care of on my own and it was my mother who ended up killing the fish when she topped up the water level one day with untreated tap water. I had to watch helpless while my goldfish had a seizures in the corner for a good few minutes before the poor thing died. o__O
So I wouldn't give too much credit to adults either. Just because someone is an adult, doesn't mean they know doodly-squat about fish (or anything else for that matter). XD
I had thought about trying to teach someone exactly how to care for them, but most working parents are far too busy to even take care of their own children, much less keep fish alive and healthy as well.
It doesn't matter now though, because I have recently discovered that I am likely moving to a different country soon and if I cannot find people to take in all of my fish, I will have to either cull them or bag them, leave them in the middle of Petco and run like hell.
They'll have no choice but to take them, then. cool |
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:58 am
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L u c i u s .Prince_Sushi. I don't recomend buying any other fish until you have found propper homes for your current fish. That is the factor that is unfair to the fish. If you are just getting rid of them to buy new fish then that is bad but if you are over run and need help then thats great that you are being a good fish mommy. I'm sure you have plenty of time(sorry if I'm wrong) if you just give up on the other fish for now. Besides, how are you going to keep the new fish from breeding and turning into another guppy situation?
In my opinion it is still like a dog. If you bought two dogs and they had babies, the babies are still your responsiblity. Its like a lesson. Either get your pets fixed(not possible on fish x_x), get only one or get pets of the same gender.
It doesn't matter if you bought them, by owning and breeding them you are taking resonsiblity for them. It was nice of you to save the fry but you should have had homes arranged before they became adults or maybe even before being born.
I breed bettas and always come up with plans and back up plans for getting rid of fry. I have yet to ever cull a fry(except ones that where to weak or messed up to live a normal life) because I am always ready.
I would try giving them to the kid. You have to give him a chance. Everyone learns someway and besides no good parent would dare leave a fish tank and fish for a 6 year old to care for all by himself. A kid can't just do it. You could go tot the parents and explain that you are in a tight spot and if they say they can help you can give them info on caring for guppies. Maybe you could write up a caresheet for guppies?
If there is nothing else in your 55 gallon then 30 guppies should beable to live there fine. Just don't let them breed. You could divide the tank into a male side and a female side and then they could breed. I wasn't intending on buying new fish until I had found a solution to the guppy problem I had now. I don't really remember insinuating that I was, actually. XD I did, however, mention how I was going to keep from getting into this situation again. That would be to just let nature run it's course in the tank (well as much as it can in a tank anyway..) and if a fry survives, good for it. Only one out of each batch has survived so far since I have started doing this, and that is mostly because my little sister scoops them up and puts them in her fry tank before I can catch her at it. (Of course then I don't have the heart to put the little ******** back into the main aquarium, because I know I will have a hand in it's demise.) I wasn't planning on adding live-bearers to the tank again either. I was going to leave some guppies in, because I know if I do not try and save the fry I wont get over populated again. About fish being like dogs.. I don't know about where you live, but I know for a fact that people are less likely to adopt a fish than a dog. But can I see where you are coming from. Also, you are a breeder. You expect (and hope) for fry. Naturally you would have ample living-space prepaired for the little arrivals before they are even a twinkle in their mother's eye. As a breeder, you should know that even if I did not buy a male and a female pair and instead bought a female alone, there is a high chance of her already being pregnant when I buy her (which she was, however since I was and still am a beginner fish-keeper, I did not know much about what I was getting myself into at the time). I did not breed them intentionally, the little heffer got knocked up all on her own. xD Now on to the topic of whether or not to leave the guppies to a screaming 6 year old... I seriously don't know what type of people or families you are used to seeing, but where I live parents leaving their kids alone to care for fish is not unlikely at all, since most people leave their children unattended nearly all day while they are at work or elsewhere. You have to understand that not all places are exactly what you are accustomed to. Also, when I was a kid I had a 10 gallon aquarium that I took care of on my own and it was my mother who ended up killing the fish when she topped up the water level one day with untreated tap water. I had to watch helpless while my goldfish had a seizures in the corner for a good few minutes before the poor thing died. o__O So I wouldn't give too much credit to adults either. Just because someone is an adult, doesn't mean they know doodly-squat about fish (or anything else for that matter). XD I had thought about trying to teach someone exactly how to care for them, but most working parents are far too busy to even take care of their own children, much less keep fish alive and healthy as well. It doesn't matter now though, because I have recently discovered that I am likely moving to a different country soon and if I cannot find people to take in all of my fish, I will have to either cull them or bag them, leave them in the middle of Petco and run like hell. They'll have no choice but to take them, then. cool
I hope you aren't serious about the petco thing. One time while I was standing by the tnaks waiting to buy some live plants a lady drop a bag on accident and about 10 goldfish fell on the floor. She just used her foot to push them out of the way! It was sad, then they just put them inthe trash. I almost went over and picked them up and told the lady I would take them if she was just going to kill them and be cruel like that. I would rather trust my fish to my 5 year old neice than petco! lol
I'm only 14 and I breed and buy top quality bettas. I agree that it doesn't matter what age you are but normally parents have grown up and expierenced taking care of pets. Stay at home mothers are the best! My sister manages to care for a huge 100 gallon tropical tank with huge tin foils and silver dollars (plus some tiny fish).
lol, I think it is because they pretty much take care of kids and the house all day so they need something relaxing like fish. Then again she thought I was weird when I sat at the table and watched hte fish for 30 minutes.
At least if you are gonna cull I do hope you know how. Place the fish in a ziplock with tank wate rand place in the freezer. The water will slowly get colder and the fish will kind of fall asleep and die. Its the least painful way to cull them. Here is an idea- cull all males or all females! If you cull all males, and a female happens to have babies cull them until there are no babies or pregnant mothers. Females will mix well in a community tank.
"Letting nature run its course" is a bad idea. Remeber your fish aren't out in nature. The are "trapped" in an aquarium so nothign is the same as out in the wild. Amonia can build up and rotting babies can polute the tank and kill off the rest of the fish. Thats like leaving my goldfish alone for weeks without a water change and saying let nature run its course. Its not liek they are living in a river or lake where they fish waste can be swept away and thus the water stays clean. Therefore it is impossible to let nature run its course in a tank. People need to step in a help the fish.If you must, do what I recomended. Cull all the babies and one sex. That should end it. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:20 am
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.Prince_Sushi. I hope you aren't serious about the petco thing. One time while I was standing by the tnaks waiting to buy some live plants a lady drop a bag on accident and about 10 goldfish fell on the floor. She just used her foot to push them out of the way! It was sad, then they just put them inthe trash. I almost went over and picked them up and told the lady I would take them if she was just going to kill them and be cruel like that. I would rather trust my fish to my 5 year old neice than petco! lol
I'm only 14 and I breed and buy top quality bettas. I agree that it doesn't matter what age you are but normally parents have grown up and expierenced taking care of pets. Stay at home mothers are the best! My sister manages to care for a huge 100 gallon tropical tank with huge tin foils and silver dollars (plus some tiny fish).
lol, I think it is because they pretty much take care of kids and the house all day so they need something relaxing like fish. Then again she thought I was weird when I sat at the table and watched hte fish for 30 minutes.
At least if you are gonna cull I do hope you know how. Place the fish in a ziplock with tank wate rand place in the freezer. The water will slowly get colder and the fish will kind of fall asleep and die. Its the least painful way to cull them. Here is an idea- cull all males or all females! If you cull all males, and a female happens to have babies cull them until there are no babies or pregnant mothers. Females will mix well in a community tank.
"Letting nature run its course" is a bad idea. Remeber your fish aren't out in nature. The are "trapped" in an aquarium so nothign is the same as out in the wild. Amonia can build up and rotting babies can polute the tank and kill off the rest of the fish. Thats like leaving my goldfish alone for weeks without a water change and saying let nature run its course. Its not liek they are living in a river or lake where they fish waste can be swept away and thus the water stays clean. Therefore it is impossible to let nature run its course in a tank. People need to step in a help the fish.If you must, do what I recomended. Cull all the babies and one sex. That should end it.
lol, no I was not serious about abandoning them in Petco. I wouldn't have the guts to do something like that anyhow.
As for culling, yes I am familiar with a few methods. Half a year or so ago I began looking up the various ways breeders have been known to cull their fish. The sources I got my information from were never very specific on how the fish reacted while being culled. So I carefully considered how a fish would react to each method of culling for myself using common sense and logic. I discussed it with others as well, including my 75 year old father, who is a disturbingly learned man.
From what I have come to understand, I wouldn't consider culling via freezer a very humane way to put a fish to sleep. Imagine the peircing pain of the fluids in your body slowly freezing. Unless the change in temperature is drastic enough to cause heart failure, I doubt that they would sleepily sit in the frigid cold of your freezer for hours and then drift off into a calm, peaceful death.
Many people have pulled their fish out of the freezer to find them frozen in an akward position, as if they died while trying to fight for survival. i.e. they may have been concious up until the moment they froze and if they were not, they were still in pain while unconcious.
I have read of a way where people will place their fish in water significantly colder than what it can handle and the fish will die in a few seconds. Personally, I do not think this is a very nice way to go either. A few seconds of struggle is a few seconds too long in my opinion.
I would prefer to use a method that causes the fish to die instantly and painlessly. It seems like that would be a difficult thing to accomplish, but it's not if you know how to cause them to instantaniously die from shock.
Luckily it's something I know how to do, thanks to my father.
On to your comment about when I said "I did, however, mention how I was going to keep from getting into this situation again. That would be to just let nature run it's course in the tank (well as much as it can in a tank anyway..) and if a fry survives, good for it."
I inspect my tank thoroughly multiple times a day. I prune my plants, inspect each of my fish to see how their health is, check for new fry and siphone out any debris that shouldn't be there. Also, I regularly do partial water changes. When I said that I would let nature run it's course, I figured that it would be abundantly clear that I was speaking specifically of the fry's survival.
I don't have to worry about any dead fish being left to rot in the tank, especially fry because 1) My fish don't die (unfortunately). I passed the my-fish-mysteriously-died phase a long time ago. 2) My fish eat anything and everything that is free-floating, unless they determine that it is just poop (and even then they've been known to eat it. If they didn't eat it, they sure kept it in their mouth for a damn long time before spitting it out while I wasn't looking.)
So yes, I am well aware that in most tanks all of the waste doesn't magically dissapeare like in nature unless someone's tank is JUST THAT AWESOME (which there are heavily planted tanks with super-cool filters that are capable of nearly that, but they do need partial water changes, pruning, etc. but it pretty much takes care of nearly all of the waste.). However, in nature fry do get eaten and that is what I was refering to. That is why most animals have as many offspring as they do, because only very few actually survive.
I am pretty happy with the precautions I would have taken to prevent over-crowding (if I were actually able to keep all of my fish. Like I mentioned in my last post, I have found out I will likely be moving to a different country, thus unable to keep any of my fish now.)
I don't believe in keeping all of one gender (especially of guppy) if I can keep from it. I find that guppies (at least male guppies) are much happier if they have the opposite sex to "socialize" with. After my original female died, I kept my original male guppy away from the fry that the female produced for weeks and weeks. I tried to put him with the fry-mob once the fry were big enough to live around adults safely, but the adult male was just too much of a bully, so I waited until the fry were just a little more than half his size (excluding the size of his tail, because it was rather large). Anyhow.. When I finally allowed him in the same tank with the younger guppies he was flipping out trying to impress as many females as he could. I watched with a mixture between amusement and fear as he frantically danced all over the tank for hours and hours with each and every female. I thought he was going to kill himself from the excitement! But seriously, he was trying to mate as if his life depended on it (which is animal instinct, really). That is when I realized how easily it is to take away an animal's point to existing. Animals live to reproduce, and they will die trying to reproduce if that is what it takes.
So if I were going to actually keep this tank, my ideal community would have a healthy balance of females and males. I would allow the fry to be eaten and just take care to feed the faster inhabitants (the ones most likely to gobble the fry) of the tank sparingly after a batch of fry are born and devoured.
Or I could do like a lot of breeders and feed unwanted fry to AN OSCAR. Then again I am not a breeder, so I wouldn't have enough fry to feed the b*****d. So much for that idea. confused |
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:18 pm
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:47 pm
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:42 pm
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if its the summer time you could always release the guppys into an area that already has little wild breeds of guppys......like little streams and such, then they have a chance for survival, though they would probably all die, but you never know you might see an article in the paper 2 months down the line saying that there is a wierd out break of fancy guppys in the streams, LOL....wouldnt that make you proud!
and about the oscar.....that probably wouldnt be such a great idea...something like a fire mouth or something would be great. BELEVE ME, you dont want an oscar in a 55 gallon tank, they are hazzardous....I had a half grown one in my 55 gallon, and he kept destroying my thermometer, I would find it and shards of glass at the bottom of my tank, and what broke the last straw was when I found him starting to ram my EXPENSIVE as heck heater........I was like, YEEEAHHHH...time to go buddy!
But yeah, I know all to well how you feel about livebearers........I had a male and female swordtail *1 store bought female, and my home bred male* and before too long I had like 100 *litterally* fry swimming around...and what did I do, SAVE THEM...ugg....yeah lets just say that within 3 months..the local petstore had lots of baby swortails for sale!
it sounds really horrible of me, but my store bought female swordtail had an unfortunate accident *COUGH* she "accidentally" found herself moving *when she got knocked up again* from the safe 15 gallon tank into my 55 gallon oscar tank.......I DUNNO HOW IT HAPPENED *COUGH*
heres a picture of the guy who did all my dirty work for me.....
I swear he was such a horror, that I felt like putting a never ending loop of the jaws song whenever I entered the room and looked into his tank! xd
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:54 pm
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