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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:10 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:31 am
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hachimitsugirl hachimitsugirl I don't know if I'd sign up for having a "responsibility" to prove anything to anyone. Not requiring a supernatural deity to enrich my life doesn't entail evangelism (though I do enjoy a good verbal scrap with a believer every once in a while). Sanguvixen The only responsibility we have as Atheists are to prevent Theists from taking things so far as to suppress people in violent or sneaky ways. We stand up for others when they won't stand up for themselves(or can't), and we stand up for tolerence. That is all we have to do because if we don't stand up as hard shiny nails, they'll just hammer down every person that believes differently, and the way in which they do it will just get progressively worse. Of course anyone with a core of basal ethics should be standing up for oppressed peoples, regardless of their belief system or lack of belief system. I would, however, hesitate to use atheists as an adequate "our." Rationality is a good quality but seems insufficient to corrall such disparate people as may reject supernaturality. hachimitsugirl The problem at the core of relious faith is that their faith compels them to make claims regarding natural law. In that respect, they must prove something just as any scientist must have proof to withstand peer-review of a theory. People of religious faith make themselves vulnerable to the burden of proof by making unsubstantiated claims about the universe. They made their bed, so to speak. Sanguvixen I don't get where you are getting the above. It has nothing to do with faith, or even science. The reason they will make superflous claims including claims regarding natural law, and claims that have no possibility of having proof...is that they are just trying to fight extinction. That is all it is.
I was referring to what an earlier poster had said about the "burden of proof." When the poster was posed the question of who decides who is saddled with the burden of proof, I chimed in to suggest that making claims about natural law places religious peoples in an immediate position to prove what they believe as opposed to simply believing it. That's what I was "getting" at.
#1: He/she who stands on nuetral ground is best able to refute and/or take on problems. So in that way I think we do have a bit of responsibility wether you like it or not. You can either be a part of the problem by just sitting back and letting yourself be trampled on, or part of the solution by standing up and at least doing something to promote a more tolerent world.
#2: Bolded part...means what? I still can't figure out what you mean by that. Want to simplify it a little bit?
#3: It is the one who makes the biggest superflous claim that the burden of proof lies. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that goes for sides, theists and atheists.
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:52 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:36 pm
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hachimitsugirl Sanguvixen #1: He/she who stands on nuetral ground is best able to refute and/or take on problems. So in that way I think we do have a bit of responsibility wether you like it or not. You can either be a part of the problem by just sitting back and letting yourself be trampled on, or part of the solution by standing up and at least doing something to promote a more tolerent world.
#2: Bolded part...means what? I still can't figure out what you mean by that. Want to simplify it a little bit?
#3: It is the one who makes the biggest superflous claim that the burden of proof lies. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that goes for sides, theists and atheists. #1: "Part of the problem?" As an applied anthropologist in training, I'll be attempting to fix plenty of people's problems, believe me. However, this militant stance of yours smacks of either high school idealism or sincere humanitarianism. I'll leave it up to you insofar as which camp you claim.
#2: Sorry, I can't distill it any more than that. I didn't think I had the habit of being obtuse. ??
#3: Again, I was addressing another poster with my statements about "burden of proof." Take it up with the originator if you want.
Applied Anthropologist? Oh...what is that supposed to imply?
Since you can't seem to say anything other than an implied personal attack, or an implied "I know more than you do" kind of thing I'm sort of done here. Take your arrogence elsewhere, okay? If you can't see the problem, than I can't help you.
Part of the problem between theists and atheists are people who are uptight, snobby, rude, arrogent, or just plain mean. It is the responsibility of everyone to put those people in thier place.
Look at the westies, and the motercycle block-aid. They may or may not contain athiests in thier ranks, but I applaud how effective they are at keeping Fred Phelps as bay so that mourners can mourn in peace. There is much wrong in the world, and it doesn't take much to contribute to a solution. You may not have to out of your way to stop a theist from making mourners suffer, but then again you don't have to sit back and do nothing.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 am
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Sanguvixen hachimitsugirl Sanguvixen #1: He/she who stands on nuetral ground is best able to refute and/or take on problems. So in that way I think we do have a bit of responsibility wether you like it or not. You can either be a part of the problem by just sitting back and letting yourself be trampled on, or part of the solution by standing up and at least doing something to promote a more tolerent world.
#2: Bolded part...means what? I still can't figure out what you mean by that. Want to simplify it a little bit?
#3: It is the one who makes the biggest superflous claim that the burden of proof lies. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that goes for sides, theists and atheists. #1: "Part of the problem?" As an applied anthropologist in training, I'll be attempting to fix plenty of people's problems, believe me. However, this militant stance of yours smacks of either high school idealism or sincere humanitarianism. I'll leave it up to you insofar as which camp you claim.
#2: Sorry, I can't distill it any more than that. I didn't think I had the habit of being obtuse. ??
#3: Again, I was addressing another poster with my statements about "burden of proof." Take it up with the originator if you want. Applied Anthropologist? Oh...what is that supposed to imply?
Since you can't seem to say anything other than an implied personal attack, or an implied "I know more than you do" kind of thing I'm sort of done here. Take your arrogence elsewhere, okay? If you can't see the problem, than I can't help you.
Part of the problem between theists and atheists are people who are uptight, snobby, rude, arrogent, or just plain mean. It is the responsibility of everyone to put those people in thier place.
Look at the westies, and the motercycle block-aid. They may or may not contain athiests in thier ranks, but I applaud how effective they are at keeping Fred Phelps as bay so that mourners can mourn in peace. There is much wrong in the world, and it doesn't take much to contribute to a solution. You may not have to out of your way to stop a theist from making mourners suffer, but then again you don't have to sit back and do nothing.
What?!! Wow, it sounds as if you're getting woefully off track. I'm not clear on the intent or even the content of your "response" here, as it's more like a weirdly misdirected tantrum. If you wanna respond to me in normal fashion, feel free. I don't mind tediously drawn-out discussions. I prefer them, as I relish the opportunity to inform those in need.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:05 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:11 am
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:30 pm
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Rilian hachimitsugirl Harris says, "An atheist is simply a person who has considered this claim (religion), read the books and found the claim to be ridiculous. One doesn’t have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise dogmatic, to reject unjustified religious beliefs."Have you encountered this statement? If so, how do you counter it? Or do you believe that atheism is a "religion?" That statement doesn't paint atheism as a religion.
Uhhh, of course not. "Have you encountered this statement" was in reference to the title of my post - those insisting that atheism IS a religion. Harris refutes it in that quote succinctly and I was asking if others have their own way of putting it.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:32 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:49 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:32 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:57 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:14 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:18 pm
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