The Bible and Sex

[ProjectOmicron88]

SaintChaos

First lets look at the definition of fornication which is right on dictionary.com

Quote:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
for·ni·ca·tion /ˌfɔrnɪˈkeɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-ni-key-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

now that thats clear, here are some verses that talk against fornication.

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

this is the main verse that talks about it but there are other verses that also consider it either a sin or just distasteful and among the many desires of the flesh.

Galatians 5: 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and yet there are many more verses that see it in a distasteful light or about sexual immorality in general. i can post them if you want me to.

I don't care about the passages talking about sexual immorality, because for all we know, they're talking about something else. What I consider "sexually immoral" is the big stuff like rape. Plus, I don't buy the whole "sexual immorality" bit in relation to premarital sex (not to mention the fact that the Hebrew word for "fornication" can probably be translated about five different ways considering how Middle Eastern regional languages differ greatly from ours), because of a few reasons. The biggest one is how God's chosen individuals, in this case Lot, are apparently allowed to have sex with their own daughters without consequence...and we're worried about premarital sex?!  

[Theophrastus]

Ahh, yes, Lot. The dapper gentleman who offered his daughter for sexual ravening by total strangers.  

[ElenaMason]

Theophrastus

Ahh, yes, Lot. The dapper gentleman who offered his daughter for sexual ravening by total strangers.

yeah i lost all respect for Lot when reading about his endeavors when he made such an offer so openly. disgusts me....  

[ElenaMason]

ProjectOmicron88

SaintChaos

First lets look at the definition of fornication which is right on dictionary.com

Quote:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
for·ni·ca·tion /ˌfɔrnɪˈkeɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-ni-key-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

now that thats clear, here are some verses that talk against fornication.

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

this is the main verse that talks about it but there are other verses that also consider it either a sin or just distasteful and among the many desires of the flesh.

Galatians 5: 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and yet there are many more verses that see it in a distasteful light or about sexual immorality in general. i can post them if you want me to.

I don't care about the passages talking about sexual immorality, because for all we know, they're talking about something else. What I consider "sexually immoral" is the big stuff like rape. Plus, I don't buy the whole "sexual immorality" bit in relation to premarital sex (not to mention the fact that the Hebrew word for "fornication" can probably be translated about five different ways considering how Middle Eastern regional languages differ greatly from ours), because of a few reasons. The biggest one is how God's chosen individuals, in this case Lot, are apparently allowed to have sex with their own daughters without consequence...and we're worried about premarital sex?!

lol okay okay. i dont care what you find immoral or not. thats your business. you wanted me to post verses so thats what i did. smile

regarding in general how the earth got populated wtih people, "PRETEND" here that you dont believe in evolution and see how it is from the biblical stand point of how the population of the earth came to be.

this is also one of the many controversial subjects Christians have amongst each other. Adam and Eve were the first one right? well....they had kids, which were two sons.....i think they had daughters, i dont remember. but since they were the only beings on the entire planet how else would they populate but to have....well...sex with each other. at THAT given point in time it was okay because the population had to start SOMEwhere. after that once there was enough population, THEN rules were set in.

which is a good warning to keep people from doing incest or having sex with those related to you, except your 2nd cousin and beyond that. but anything before that is not okay. scientifically this has already been proven to be bad too because of horrible birth defects of bearing children with those related to you.

so either biblical or not, its been proven that its bad.  

[Theophrastus]

SaintChaos

Theophrastus

Ahh, yes, Lot. The dapper gentleman who offered his daughter for sexual ravening by total strangers.

yeah i lost all respect for Lot when reading about his endeavors when he made such an offer so openly. disgusts me....

And he was the only person good enough for God to save from the whole of two cities. Well, him and his property (wife, children). God has a strange way of deciding who's righteous.  

[ElenaMason]

Theophrastus

SaintChaos

Theophrastus

Ahh, yes, Lot. The dapper gentleman who offered his daughter for sexual ravening by total strangers.

yeah i lost all respect for Lot when reading about his endeavors when he made such an offer so openly. disgusts me....

And he was the only person good enough for God to save from the whole of two cities. Well, him and his property (wife, children). God has a strange way of deciding who's righteous.

i would normally say something, but i see no point in doing so since i doubt your opinion would change anyway. and thus i keep my opinion to myself  

[Theophrastus]

What I hold is not an opinion - it is the collection of facts as they are presented, coalescing into my world-view.

The whole reason for me to post is so you can hold my claims up to scrutiny and, in the event that I am wrong, help me understand why. I welcome your reply if you'd like to give one.  

[ElenaMason]

Theophrastus

What I hold is not an opinion - it is the collection of facts as they are presented, coalescing into my world-view.

The whole reason for me to post is so you can hold my claims up to scrutiny and, in the event that I am wrong, help me understand why. I welcome your reply if you'd like to give one.

it is an "opinion" whether i consider it right or wrong doesnt mean i can justify saying whatever i want in response.

neither do i consider you wrong or right since we were 1) neither there and 2) are not Lot ourself.

if you look at it from a psychological point of view, when we are desperate we usually tend to do things we would normally not do.

in the case of Lot, two angels visited the city and all the men in the city wanted "to have relations" with the angels. the city was so wracked with sin and corruption they dared to want to violate such a being as an angel from god. (ASSUMING you believe in angels, which i know you don't but lets just pretend you do and try to see what im explaining here. im answering this from a biblical standpoint and christian logic is what i like to call it)

i could theorize and say from a psychological point of view that maybe Lot, in desperation to keep the men from doing something that is considered an unnatural and detestable act, to get them to do something that is of normality that god created. (sex between man and woman, not sex between two of the same sex)

this is also ASSUMING you believed that homosexuality is a choice and you consider it wrong. if you dont then well what im saying now is probably pointless.

there could be other theories too for why he would sacrifice his daughters like that to save the angels. you could be wrong and i could be right. or i could be wrong and you could be right.

or BOTH us are wrong or BOTH of us are right. we weren't actually there and we aren't in the mindset of Lot at that time and situation so we couldn't possibly say what was truly going on except from a biased standpoint of what we deem is acceptable in our own eyes.

so either way i thought its a stalemate opinion since its most likely you wont accept what i have to say anyway, but i neither agree nor disagree with you. *shrugs*  

[ProjectOmicron88]

SaintChaos

lol okay okay. i dont care what you find immoral or not. thats your business. you wanted me to post verses so thats what i did. smile

regarding in general how the earth got populated wtih people, "PRETEND" here that you dont believe in evolution and see how it is from the biblical stand point of how the population of the earth came to be.

this is also one of the many controversial subjects Christians have amongst each other. Adam and Eve were the first one right? well....they had kids, which were two sons.....i think they had daughters, i dont remember. but since they were the only beings on the entire planet how else would they populate but to have....well...sex with each other. at THAT given point in time it was okay because the population had to start SOMEwhere. after that once there was enough population, THEN rules were set in.

which is a good warning to keep people from doing incest or having sex with those related to you, except your 2nd cousin and beyond that. but anything before that is not okay. scientifically this has already been proven to be bad too because of horrible birth defects of bearing children with those related to you.

so either biblical or not, its been proven that its bad.

The discussion, however, is not about incest...it's about premarital sex. And quite frankly, the apathy you've shown for what I deem immoral doesn't give me a really good reason to take what the Bible says seriously either. Though incest has medically proven repercussions, premarital sex does not, unless of course one doesn't use protection, in which case one is a detriment to the further development of mankind.  

[ElenaMason]

ProjectOmicron88

SaintChaos

lol okay okay. i dont care what you find immoral or not. thats your business. you wanted me to post verses so thats what i did. smile

regarding in general how the earth got populated wtih people, "PRETEND" here that you dont believe in evolution and see how it is from the biblical stand point of how the population of the earth came to be.

this is also one of the many controversial subjects Christians have amongst each other. Adam and Eve were the first one right? well....they had kids, which were two sons.....i think they had daughters, i dont remember. but since they were the only beings on the entire planet how else would they populate but to have....well...sex with each other. at THAT given point in time it was okay because the population had to start SOMEwhere. after that once there was enough population, THEN rules were set in.

which is a good warning to keep people from doing incest or having sex with those related to you, except your 2nd cousin and beyond that. but anything before that is not okay. scientifically this has already been proven to be bad too because of horrible birth defects of bearing children with those related to you.

so either biblical or not, its been proven that its bad.

The discussion, however, is not about incest...it's about premarital sex. And quite frankly, the apathy you've shown for what I deem immoral doesn't give me a really good reason to take what the Bible says seriously either. Though incest has medically proven repercussions, premarital sex does not, unless of course one doesn't use protection, in which case one is a detriment to the further development of mankind.

i know what we were talking about. i was just posting another verse showing negative views towards sexual immorality. and fornication (premarital sex) falls under the category of sexual immorality.

if nothing else, if you dont believe it to be a sin, then believe it to be a legitimate fair "warning" from the bible that you shouldnt have premarital sex.

and heres some good reasons why:

1)what if the person guy/girl is just after sex and even though you've dated them a long time, finally have sex with them before marriage and then they suddenly ended the relationship?

2)what if you plan to marry and accidentally get pregnant? (yes i know there are methods of protection but some people dont care to use it or they're too lazy to. trying to consider every type of situation)

3) for the Christians, this is committing yet another sexual immorality and yet again choosing to sin.

so either way, whether people believe in the bible or not, you can look at it as a fairly good "guide to life" giving warnings and examples to why you shouldn't do "this" or "that".  

[ProjectOmicron88]

SaintChaos

ProjectOmicron88

SaintChaos

lol okay okay. i dont care what you find immoral or not. thats your business. you wanted me to post verses so thats what i did. smile

regarding in general how the earth got populated wtih people, "PRETEND" here that you dont believe in evolution and see how it is from the biblical stand point of how the population of the earth came to be.

this is also one of the many controversial subjects Christians have amongst each other. Adam and Eve were the first one right? well....they had kids, which were two sons.....i think they had daughters, i dont remember. but since they were the only beings on the entire planet how else would they populate but to have....well...sex with each other. at THAT given point in time it was okay because the population had to start SOMEwhere. after that once there was enough population, THEN rules were set in.

which is a good warning to keep people from doing incest or having sex with those related to you, except your 2nd cousin and beyond that. but anything before that is not okay. scientifically this has already been proven to be bad too because of horrible birth defects of bearing children with those related to you.

so either biblical or not, its been proven that its bad.

The discussion, however, is not about incest...it's about premarital sex. And quite frankly, the apathy you've shown for what I deem immoral doesn't give me a really good reason to take what the Bible says seriously either. Though incest has medically proven repercussions, premarital sex does not, unless of course one doesn't use protection, in which case one is a detriment to the further development of mankind.

i know what we were talking about. i was just posting another verse showing negative views towards sexual immorality. and fornication (premarital sex) falls under the category of sexual immorality.

if nothing else, if you dont believe it to be a sin, then believe it to be a legitimate fair "warning" from the bible that you shouldnt have premarital sex.

and heres some good reasons why:

1)what if the person guy/girl is just after sex and even though you've dated them a long time, finally have sex with them before marriage and then they suddenly ended the relationship?

2)what if you plan to marry and accidentally get pregnant? (yes i know there are methods of protection but some people dont care to use it or they're too lazy to. trying to consider every type of situation)

3) for the Christians, this is committing yet another sexual immorality and yet again choosing to sin.

so either way, whether people believe in the bible or not, you can look at it as a fairly good "guide to life" giving warnings and examples to why you shouldn't do "this" or "that".

In terms of being hurt by someone you love, yes, it's very tragic, and it could very well be a deterrent. The point is that that still doesn't warrant damnation. Also, when you say this:

SaintChaos

...and fornication (premarital sex) falls under the category of sexual immorality.

Remember that the term "sexual immorality" has no set definition. It's a vague concept, and is therefore subjective. What may be immoral to one may not be immoral to another.  

[ElenaMason]

ProjectOmicron88

SaintChaos

ProjectOmicron88

SaintChaos

lol okay okay. i dont care what you find immoral or not. thats your business. you wanted me to post verses so thats what i did. smile

regarding in general how the earth got populated wtih people, "PRETEND" here that you dont believe in evolution and see how it is from the biblical stand point of how the population of the earth came to be.

this is also one of the many controversial subjects Christians have amongst each other. Adam and Eve were the first one right? well....they had kids, which were two sons.....i think they had daughters, i dont remember. but since they were the only beings on the entire planet how else would they populate but to have....well...sex with each other. at THAT given point in time it was okay because the population had to start SOMEwhere. after that once there was enough population, THEN rules were set in.

which is a good warning to keep people from doing incest or having sex with those related to you, except your 2nd cousin and beyond that. but anything before that is not okay. scientifically this has already been proven to be bad too because of horrible birth defects of bearing children with those related to you.

so either biblical or not, its been proven that its bad.

The discussion, however, is not about incest...it's about premarital sex. And quite frankly, the apathy you've shown for what I deem immoral doesn't give me a really good reason to take what the Bible says seriously either. Though incest has medically proven repercussions, premarital sex does not, unless of course one doesn't use protection, in which case one is a detriment to the further development of mankind.

i know what we were talking about. i was just posting another verse showing negative views towards sexual immorality. and fornication (premarital sex) falls under the category of sexual immorality.

if nothing else, if you dont believe it to be a sin, then believe it to be a legitimate fair "warning" from the bible that you shouldnt have premarital sex.

and heres some good reasons why:

1)what if the person guy/girl is just after sex and even though you've dated them a long time, finally have sex with them before marriage and then they suddenly ended the relationship?

2)what if you plan to marry and accidentally get pregnant? (yes i know there are methods of protection but some people dont care to use it or they're too lazy to. trying to consider every type of situation)

3) for the Christians, this is committing yet another sexual immorality and yet again choosing to sin.

so either way, whether people believe in the bible or not, you can look at it as a fairly good "guide to life" giving warnings and examples to why you shouldn't do "this" or "that".

In terms of being hurt by someone you love, yes, it's very tragic, and it could very well be a deterrent. The point is that that still doesn't warrant damnation. Also, when you say this:

SaintChaos

...and fornication (premarital sex) falls under the category of sexual immorality.

Remember that the term "sexual immorality" has no set definition. It's a vague concept, and is therefore subjective. What may be immoral to one may not be immoral to another.

*shrugs* okay....whatever you want to believe.  

[Theophrastus]

Sex is fun. When you use your brain for a second and toss on a rubber, sex can be a fantastic tool for bonding and friendship as well as a great way to keep intimate relationships that way. It is something that every mammal does and quite obviously, no religious calls for abstinence are making a dent in teenage pregnancy rates which are notably higher in deeply religious communities.

You know, sex wouldn't be such a big deal if it was held over the heads of horny teens by their religious leaders like a carrot on a stick. You take any adolescent you know and tell them they can't have something - they'll want it more, even if they don't act on it (unless you did a great job mentally reprogramming them).

The less sexual pressure a society exerts, endorsing or bemoaning, the less likely foolish sex will become. If you ask me, the entire BDSM scene is the result of the Inquisition and the subsequent Victorian mentalities of hiding sexuality while simultaneously overtly exhibiting a culture of blatantly sexual attire, writing and theater.  

[ProjectOmicron88]

Theophrastus

Sex is fun. When you use your brain for a second and toss on a rubber, sex can be a fantastic tool for bonding and friendship as well as a great way to keep intimate relationships that way. It is something that every mammal does and quite obviously, no religious calls for abstinence are making a dent in teenage pregnancy rates which are notably higher in deeply religious communities.

You know, sex wouldn't be such a big deal if it was held over the heads of horny teens by their religious leaders like a carrot on a stick. You take any adolescent you know and tell them they can't have something - they'll want it more, even if they don't act on it (unless you did a great job mentally reprogramming them).

The less sexual pressure a society exerts, endorsing or bemoaning, the less likely foolish sex will become. If you ask me, the entire BDSM scene is the result of the Inquisition and the subsequent Victorian mentalities of hiding sexuality while simultaneously overtly exhibiting a culture of blatantly sexual attire, writing and theater.

It's the same for drugs. The more of a mystery there is to them, the more likely someone is going to be to try them. That's why information on this stuff usually does wonders. Just saying "here's what it does, here's why not to do it," and so on makes it less of an exotic thing.  

[Theophrastus]

Brother, again you speak to my mind and my heart.