Christianity [sorry if this has already been done]

[Marius Novus Equus]

Hello there, Im new, and there was one thing I wanted to dicuss in the discussion thread.

Christianity. I have been a Roman Catholic since I was 2, until now, and I am 17 at this present day. I have believed, prayed, gone to mass every week at LEAST once, usually more, I was baptised confirmed, I have a "confirmation of faith" name (which is Christopher, after the saint that carried Jesus) and I have recieved the sacrament of the sick. I worked as an Altar-server for 9 YEARS!

( Im just explaining this so it does not look like I do this every day, This is completely new to me, considering atheism. )

I want to lay facts down on the table like the historian I am now though.
Consider this please.

1. Council of Nicea - 325 AD.

"Was in fact begun by the Emperor Constantine the Pagan, in order to discuss the most pressing issue, which was in his words. 'Is Jesus of Nazareth the same substance as God Almighty, or merely Similar Substance?' This was argued for many months before they decided Jesus should be worshipped as an equal to God."

Think about that for a moment, they had to think whether or not Jesus was a man, or if he could be more. 300 years after his death and they only just begin to think he might be god-like.

Imagine to rationale there if they are wrong. They are worshipping a false idol, it would mean hell and damnation for all eternity if they were incorrect. A big risk.

2. The Subject of Hell

Hell has never been mentioned in the Old Testament, only that the unrighteous would not enter heaven. There was no pit of fire, no horned devil worshipped by a pentagram. Do you know why this is? The Pope does.

The Catholic church invented it, to scare people. It was a warning. "If you dare ignore me and my master the Pope, you will burn for eternity!"
Sounds a bit better than, you wont be liked by me and the big guy upstairs.

3. The Devil

The Devil story was not in the old testament, no Lucifer falling from heaven, the original fallen angel story was invented. The Gospels were invented by the Pope and early church aswell, to suit their purpose. They made up all these stories, Satan is not the devil, merely a follower of the devil, but to make sure people were not confused, they made them the same thing!

The Church wanted power, so they had to have all the answers. They made rules but did not follow them, there are records of some Popes drinking until they vomited on the table, then asked the Cardinals to leave so they might enjoy their WIFE!!

The devil with horns and a pitch fork was made to condemn old religions.

Horns - Baphomet, a pagan god, with rams horns, suddenly if you worship him, your worshipping "THE IMAGE OF SATAN!!" (who remember, is not Lucifer, merely a demon. But we'll let that slide.)

Pitchfork - Posiedon, his trident became a fork that was used to pierce the ungodly for eternity in hell. Merely because some people in Rome and Greece still worshipped him in the sea-ports.

4. FINALLY - Jesus himself

Jesus himself was considered man, and after the council of Nicea, when his divinity was assured historically. Things changed....

It was discovered that the gospels being printed were written in two different hands. The beginning and end were in a different script to the middle.

This was because of the Pope, namely that he needed to show proof of Jesus' divinity. The immaculate birth story, dying, and rising back to life after three days were all done by a pagan god with a bulls head, around 300 years before Jesus was born. He did all of that, but the church took the idea and used it in their "new" scripture.

Until 400 AD at the latest, no one had ever heard of Jesus rising from the dead, and no one had ever heard of his virgin mother. As she had never been known as special or holy in the past.



With this historical information. Does it look as likely that everything happened as they said?

Even if some of what I have said is misguided or incorrect or poorly put forward, nearly every sentence is historical fact, so it does prove the church has some darker patches in its history.

They lied in the past, and it looks like they might still be doing now...

Thoughts?  

[Marius Novus Equus]

okay I get it, no one interested.  

[Baku the Fluffy]

Ah, someone who actually understands the way things work! razz I really do not think that it would come as a surprise to many to find out that the church has lied to us in the past - we all do it from time to time, after all. And yes, I believe that they are still lying to people today. But, when you really think about it, what would the mindless sheep (not all Christians) have if they didn't have at least the smallest bit of false hope to hold on to? It is better than nothing, and whether what they are being fed is true or not, at least it will get them through life until they die and move on to the next stage of existence, be it another life or merely rotting away in the ground.

Sure, it can be annoying to people like us sometimes when overly-religious zealots go on one of their little tirades because of something the church told them, but other than that, it isn't really harming anybody. I say we should just let them have their little hoorah, and ask that they give us the same respect they would like from us. After all, religion isn't really a "one size fits all" kind of thing - even members of organized religions have their varying beliefs. Just let those in power continue to tell their lies and forsake what they preach. If it ever got to the point where they started to abuse this power (as has been done in the past), then I could understand if people wanted to step up and stop it. However, I really do not see this happening anytime in the near future with the little awareness we do have of out past. People would just not stand for it.

Anyway, I am on a bit of a rant, and I have much work to do, so I will leave it at this. I was not trying to insult anyone's religion in this post - I am just saying that we all need something to believe in, whether it is true or not (yes, I would even consider atheism a 'belief'). Thanks, peace, and good health to all of you! 3nodding  

[Just Tsuki]

it would be stupid and nieve (is that how you spell it??) to say that the church has never lied to us. i believe that there is a base of truth when it comes to christianity, both in the old and the new testament, as some of the events through out the bible have been found to be true (plus archaeologival evidence)

i believe that while it is in human nature to believe in something beyond our selves, it can be taken too far and turned into something more like a dictatorship (not looking at only christianity here) where if the god decrees this that or the other, then the worshippers and any one knocking around at the time has to take it literally and do it.

i have a feeling that i have just went off on one so sorry if i did redface  

[Ommar_Ramirez]

You made a very interesting analysis. There are some esoteric aspects that I could mention about the ditortion of the writtings in the Bible (like Jesus being a master of Hermetic teachings) but that would be out of the topic right now.

Focusing on your opinion about the church, I would say yes... They lied, they distorted all (they didn't invent the gosspels, but they altered them) an they reppresed.

Certainly there is a need of believing in something, but everybody has the right to search for the truth. No one has the right to impose a belief system over people and get gain nor have the right to condemn others.

For your final question... Certainly Jesus was a great master, but nothing was as the church said.  

[Vengeful Elegance]

It looks like you're really done your homework on this.

I've heard that the image of hell came from volcanoes. People saw fire erupting from the earth and thought that it was a punishment from God for their sinful ways. Believing that Hell was down they figured it must be all fire and brimstone because there was fire coming out of the ground.

The cross was a pagan symbol before the Christians stole it. It was symbolizing the vertical man penetrating the horizontal woman.

The image of the devil having horns and goat's legs came from the pagan god Pan.