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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:13 am
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:13 pm
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:22 pm
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I think we should remind ourselves that two wrongs don't make a right. It only makes you feel good for a little bit.
So in response to Fenky, the last thing we as Atheists should want for theists such as Christianity is for them to be persecuted by us for their beliefs.
Let me tell you something about theism and atheism. I remember a very important lesson from an old friend on Gaia who was banned a few years back. He wanted to show other people on Gaia that Christians are not what they make themselves out to be. They are not what they say they are. To prove what he believes they really are he did an experiment.
He created a thread in the GD called "Jesus is not your savior" or "JINYS" for short. It was one of the few threads in that time that ever reached 1000 pages, although there were at least two other threads that rivaled it in page numbers.
He posted something telling theists that "Jesus" is not their savior and why. Not once did he ever call into question the validity of religion. But, he provoked them like crazy. Many theists fell into the trap of reacting in a way that showed off their true colors. In this thread they were everything that they claimed not to be.
Many mods didn't get it. Many people who entered the thread and stayed for the ride didn't get. I was one of the few, among a few others who did. That is how I befriended him because once I recognized his clever little trap, we ended up sharing PMs.
Now, many of them acted in anger. Many of them said things that I know they are probably still ashamed of. The bottom line is he managed to make them show their true colors without attacking their religion and claiming the whole thing as false.
There is a big lesson to be learned by all people from that thread. It deals with how you treat the people you are against and how you should act towards those who are against you. Provoke your opponent, and they might take the bate. Your action then becomes fodder for their side.
Keeping that in mind, the last thing Atheists need to do is become fodder for the Christian/theistic side by persecuting them, or becoming very vicious. We know what we are and what we are not. So we should not sink to the level of taking the bait of the theists.
Theists are pretending to be victims. Rather than take advantage of that (possibly becoming fodder for fundies and other loud mouthed theists) we should ignore them. Let them hang themselves on their own rope, because when they do, we'll gain more acceptance. Part of acceptance is learning to tolerate your opponents. It is to become tolerant yourself.
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:48 pm
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:54 pm
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:54 pm
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I don't believe in berating, beating, or jailing people for believing in stupid things, including creationism/ID. But I also don't believe in hiring such people to be science teachers. I don't believe in publishing faux-scientific papers in real scientific journals. That's the "persecution" that's being talked about in this film.
This is spin. Did anyone else notice in the trailer how one of the scientists (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was Dawkins?) was cut off mid-sentence? He said something like, "as a scientist I'm hostile to any opposing doctrine…" By the tone of his voice, it was obvious he was not finished. If he finished that with, say, "that is not based on any real evidence," that wouldn't sound so good for Stein's cute little trailer.
I'm just going by what I saw in the trailer. I haven't seen the movie. Maybe they show people being tarred and feathered, tear-gassed, or hung by their toenails, but I doubt it. It looks like the "persecution" they are talking about is that people aren't willing to accept ID as science. Well, guess what? It's not science. Dover trial. BTDT.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:59 pm
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:06 am
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:52 pm
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Sanguvixen I think we should remind ourselves that two wrongs don't make a right. It only makes you feel good for a little bit.
So in response to Fenky, the last thing we as Atheists should want for theists such as Christianity is for them to be persecuted by us for their beliefs.
Let me tell you something about theism and atheism. I remember a very important lesson from an old friend on Gaia who was banned a few years back. He wanted to show other people on Gaia that Christians are not what they make themselves out to be. They are not what they say they are. To prove what he believes they really are he did an experiment.
He created a thread in the GD called "Jesus is not your savior" or "JINYS" for short. It was one of the few threads in that time that ever reached 1000 pages, although there were at least two other threads that rivaled it in page numbers.
He posted something telling theists that "Jesus" is not their savior and why. Not once did he ever call into question the validity of religion. But, he provoked them like crazy. Many theists fell into the trap of reacting in a way that showed off their true colors. In this thread they were everything that they claimed not to be.
Many mods didn't get it. Many people who entered the thread and stayed for the ride didn't get. I was one of the few, among a few others who did. That is how I befriended him because once I recognized his clever little trap, we ended up sharing PMs.
Now, many of them acted in anger. Many of them said things that I know they are probably still ashamed of. The bottom line is he managed to make them show their true colors without attacking their religion and claiming the whole thing as false.
There is a big lesson to be learned by all people from that thread. It deals with how you treat the people you are against and how you should act towards those who are against you. Provoke your opponent, and they might take the bate. Your action then becomes fodder for their side.
Keeping that in mind, the last thing Atheists need to do is become fodder for the Christian/theistic side by persecuting them, or becoming very vicious. We know what we are and what we are not. So we should not sink to the level of taking the bait of the theists.
Theists are pretending to be victims. Rather than take advantage of that (possibly becoming fodder for fundies and other loud mouthed theists) we should ignore them. Let them hang themselves on their own rope, because when they do, we'll gain more acceptance. Part of acceptance is learning to tolerate your opponents. It is to become tolerant yourself.
This made me have second thoughts about screwing with theists. I'd try it myself, but I put too much money into my gaia. Thanks for posting this, I could imagine it's very true. Sounds very typical of your average theist to say, to expose their blind spot an leave a plethora of evidence. The bastards.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:15 pm
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:41 pm
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