Six day church camp...

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Yeah, going to church camp when you're atheist? Not the best idea ever.
In case anyone wishes to know of my... expierences...

Since my fellow atheist friend and I refused to participate in worship or sermons, the dean (the head pastor, preacher, etc) came out personally to talk to us. And so we did. For two hours about our beliefes and issues with the bible. He was actually rather nice about it; didn't try to shove his beliefs down our throats, and it turned out the main reason that on the first day they'd forced us to go into the worship hall was because they thought we were going out. His girlfriend was the reason we both came, BTW.

In addition...
I told my entire small group I was atheist on the first day there. The question went "Why are you here?" To everyone. My response: "I was invited. And I'm not religious, so I figured I'd learn a little more."
"Define not religious."
"Uh, athiest."
Went over well. Everyone at the camp was very nice, and I tried to respect their beliefs by being courteous and not running away when my comrades suddenly put their arms around my shoulders and started praying for me. Or when Royce, group leader, said non-christians can be your friends but you should never "hang out" with them as best friends because they will corrupt you away from God. Or if you marry a non-christian, your marriage will die because non-christians have no morals, are fat and lazy, and don't work. Funny, because I know christians like that... Anyway, you point it out, he danced around it. I guess there's no real answer to a lot of the questions.

One thing that bothered me: I asked the Dean how he "felt God."
His response was "I see events in my life and compare them to events in the bible. If they match up, I see that it's God talking to me."
Really... I just can't put "faith' in something like that.

And now... The list they gave us. "Struggles of youth in today's world and how we can help them through it."

1.Matthew 6:33
We must continue to help them understand that they need to put God first.
Matthew 7:7

2. 2 Cor 6:14-18
We should encourage them to date only christians and someday if they decide to marry only a Christian is an option.

3. 1 Cor 15:33-34, Proverbs 13:20
Friends should be closely watched and non-Christian friends should not be who our youth hangs out with for long periods of time.

4. 2 Thes 10-13 Work vs. Laziness, givers vs takers we must teach them to be givers.
Col 3:23 We must work for the lord and do our best as if it was for the Lord.

5. Phillipians 2:5 Attitude
Optimist not pessimist. We should teach them a servant attitude or help guide them in that direction.

6. Proverbs 20:1, Luke 12:45-48 1 Cor 6:19-20
Drugs, alchohol, cigarettes, etc (That's all it says. Nothing about not doing them...)

7. Psalms 95:2, 108:1, Ephesians 5:19
Music should be used to exalt him and with song and thanksgiving. MMusic should come from our hearts as an act of worship. We must keep and eye on what kind of music our young people listen to as it has a big influence on them.

8. Matt 6:22, 1 Timothy 4:16
Tv/Internet is what our youth look at today and it is important to encourage them to be on guard against the many evil things that are shown in both these areas; Sex, murder, fantasy and not real life situations, etc.

9. 1 Thes 4:3-6, 1 Cor 6:9-11, Rev 21:7-8
Sexual immorality, premarital sex, homosexuals, adultery which we must educate our youth on.

10. Romans 12:1-2, Rev 2:10, James 1:12 Psalms 145:20
The lord watches over all who love him and who stand firm until the end. We must educate them on perservering and not giving way to peer pressure.

11. John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:9-10
Only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ and that hell is a place of total seperation from God.


Definitions by the camp:

Atheism: Denies existance of God
Agnosticism: All knolwege is realitive and there is no absolute truth
Pantheism: God is all and all is God/nature god are one
Polytheism: There are many Gods
Some believe the bible is unture or just partially true and partially inspired.

Okay. Well, that ends that.
Please post your thoughts.  

[Xiporah]

I wouldn't have gone. It would have been far too uncomfortable for me, especially when they get into non-christian bashing.

 

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

They forcibly stop their line of thinking when it 'endangers' their faith, which is why they encourage each other to stay away from non-Christians and attribute human thoughts and temptations to 'Satan.' It's pretty pathetic, in my opinion, for anyone to do this even on a personal level, but it's downright abusive to codify this into religious law and beat it into their heads that these thoughts of theirs are 'evil' and they should loathe themselves for it.

His response about how he feels god is completely cracked out... I don't believe in god as a deity or a conscious entity like theists do, but I do acknowledge that there's some general connectedness through the world which gives me a feeling of belonging. I used to mistake this for god, when I would notice it... but as this is the only thing vaguely even resembling a god that I've ever come across, you'd think that someone so entrenched in his religion would at least acknowledge this when he's asked such a question. He might have been able to give his ideas at least a little bit of credibility if he'd given such a real answer.

What denomination was this? I used to be an Episcopalian and every camp or event I ever went to with that church was really opposite of how this one sounds. They never told us to avoid relationships with non-Christians, or not to listen to 'evil' secular music, etc... the sexual immorality thing was touched on, though not necessarily in reference to all premarital sex (most of the people I knew had no problem with premarital sex, at least in committed dating relationships), and there were mixed opinions about homosexuality. Really, the Episcopalians I grew up with encouraged questioning and discussion of what morality was and why certain things were moral, with actual reasoning, rather than "well, god said so, so just do it."  

[Tenth Speed Writer]

Has anyone else noticed a certain correlation between Orwell's concept of "doublethink" and the actions and reasoning of some churches?



It's no issue, those who accept that their faith is just that, but then you have others that honestly believe it makes them better than others. It's understandable, to an extent, but when it comes to degrading others blindly, it's gone too far.

I'm a "non-Christian." Most, if not all, of my friends are Christian.
I can honestly say that I've never "perverted their morales." In fact, I admire how honest and self-restrained many of them are.

Although, on that note, something that occurred to me during my two years at my old school: nearly all of those who would put me down on moral grounds for being non-Christian, were those I would hardly give the title to in the first place. Not to claim the right to judge anyone, but the way I saw them speak and behave just before attacking me for (supposedly) doing the same, was hypocrisy in its finest form.

Assuming they honestly believed they were taking the moral high ground, I'm going to go back to what I mentioned about Doublethink.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Xiporah

I wouldn't have gone. It would have been far too uncomfortable for me, especially when they get into non-christian bashing.

It was horribly uncomfortable. Having to stand there while people prayed, took communion, discussed emotions you didn't understand, cried for reasons you again, didn't understand (example: An expierence where they laid you on a cross and nailed nails next to your hands to help you relate with Jesus [I wasn't really paying attention, so I do not know the full reason), and some girls started sobbing. All-out bawling their eyes out, because they'd finally seen it? I had no idea why. To me, that's just laying on a piece of wood and having nails hammered in. I did not understand the significance.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

KuroFur

Xiporah

I wouldn't have gone. It would have been far too uncomfortable for me, especially when they get into non-christian bashing.

It was horribly uncomfortable. Having to stand there while people prayed, took communion, discussed emotions you didn't understand, cried for reasons you again, didn't understand (example: An expierence where they laid you on a cross and nailed nails next to your hands to help you relate with Jesus [I wasn't really paying attention, so I do not know the full reason), and some girls started sobbing. All-out bawling their eyes out, because they'd finally seen it? I had no idea why. To me, that's just laying on a piece of wood and having nails hammered in. I did not understand the significance.

Having once been one of those crying-girls, myself, I can understand what they were feeling. I'm torn between feeling like it's a good way for them to personally be in touch with their beliefs and feeling like it's just another tool for churches to use to create self-loathing parishioners who will then blindly follow orders.

What denomination was this?

 

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Daffodil the Destroyer

KuroFur

Xiporah

I wouldn't have gone. It would have been far too uncomfortable for me, especially when they get into non-christian bashing.

It was horribly uncomfortable. Having to stand there while people prayed, took communion, discussed emotions you didn't understand, cried for reasons you again, didn't understand (example: An expierence where they laid you on a cross and nailed nails next to your hands to help you relate with Jesus [I wasn't really paying attention, so I do not know the full reason), and some girls started sobbing. All-out bawling their eyes out, because they'd finally seen it? I had no idea why. To me, that's just laying on a piece of wood and having nails hammered in. I did not understand the significance.

Having once been one of those crying-girls, myself, I can understand what they were feeling. I'm torn between feeling like it's a good way for them to personally be in touch with their beliefs and feeling like it's just another tool for churches to use to create self-loathing parishioners who will then blindly follow orders.

What denomination was this?

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure of the denomination.
Here's the website if you want to know more.

http://www.butlersprings.com/php/news.php  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

It appears to be Church of Christ. I don't know much about that one. :/

 

[Meirelle]

I wouldn't have been able to keep my ******** mouth shut. stare

 

[Dirty Dirty Shisno]

I did the same thing. The only thing that changed was people kind of avoided touching me. I tapped this one guy on the arm and he turned around and then he realized it was me who had tapped him on the arm and he just kind of stared at his shoulder like it was about to fall off. I assured him it wouldn't and he said that made him feel a lot better. FTW!?!?!? I WAS KIDDING YOU JERK OFF! But yeah, other then me being a freaking leper everyone was still nice. Still got to go river rafting. Still got to sing some pretty decent songs. Still got tons of ******** awesome sweets. Leperacy of the soul sucks. Meh. I got over it.  

[Teoka]

Meirelle

I wouldn't have been able to keep my ******** mouth shut. stare

Neither would I stare

Reminds me of when I went to two days of a three-day "Youth Revival" thing at my boyfriend's black baptist church...I'll have to post a thread about it...

Oh, BTW, all the stereotypes about black churches ARE ALL TRUE.  

[x__Death-Of-Glitter__x]

So not believing in god is wrong...
But judging people, dictating what music people listen to, excluding people and calling people fat and lazy are all perfectly fine. rolleyes

I really admire the fact that you were able to stay there without running away.

I can't say I've ever been in a sitution as uncomfotable as that.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

.No.Use.Fo. A.Name.

So not believing in god is wrong...
But judging people, dictating what music people listen to, excluding people and calling people fat and lazy are all perfectly fine. rolleyes

I really admire the fact that you were able to stay there without running away.

I can't say I've ever been in a sitution as uncomfotable as that.

Mm, I have to say I've been doing a lot of thinking on this in the months since I've been there...
I don't know a lot about religion. I know the stories, but there's something about it I'm missing.
I'm starting to wonder why I'm atheist... I'm not considering being reborn here, but my reasons for being atheist are starting to become harder to find.

Anyway, back to subject, that week was very isolating.
The head man was a nice guy, though. He really knew what he was talknig about.
Ah, if only I had been then what I am now. I feel that I have changed much regarding religion since then...  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

KuroFur

.No.Use.Fo. A.Name.

So not believing in god is wrong...
But judging people, dictating what music people listen to, excluding people and calling people fat and lazy are all perfectly fine. rolleyes

I really admire the fact that you were able to stay there without running away.

I can't say I've ever been in a sitution as uncomfotable as that.

Mm, I have to say I've been doing a lot of thinking on this in the months since I've been there...
I don't know a lot about religion. I know the stories, but there's something about it I'm missing.
I'm starting to wonder why I'm atheist... I'm not considering being reborn here, but my reasons for being atheist are starting to become harder to find.

Anyway, back to subject, that week was very isolating.
The head man was a nice guy, though. He really knew what he was talknig about.
Ah, if only I had been then what I am now. I feel that I have changed much regarding religion since then...

Personally, I prefer not to say "reasons for being an atheist;" why do you need to have a reason to NOT believe in something? I see it as a lack of reasons to be a theist. It's the existence of deity/ies that needs to show evidence, not the lack of their existence.

 

[Deaths asistant]

Im suprised you were able to stay... I have christian church/School across the street from my mom's house and I can barely stand that... I just cant stand being around people who are so "out of reality"... it annoys me.