The Silmarillion: A Group Reading [update 4.12.05]

[Nimbrethil]

The Silmarillion Group Reading Thread

Reading for This Week
Ok, let's try this again. Please read "Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath" within the next week or so and post something about it. Since it's the 12th today, next week would be the 19th.



Announcements
So I'd left the thread for a few days, just to see what would happen. Yep. It died.
It seems no one remembers to post if someone else doesn't post in here first. Either that or they have to be begged and cajoled and otherwise harassed into posting something. And as Falathrim pointed out, the only people who are really participating are those who've already read it.
It seems even more useless to just give up the reading when we're so close to the end, so while I considered abandoning the whole thing, I'm going to try to move on and hope it doesn't die again.


List of Readings

1. Ainulindale
   
2. Valaquenta
   
3. Of the Beginning of Days; Of Aule and Yavanna
   
4. Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor; of Thingol and Melian; Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
   
5. Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor; Of the Silmarils; Of the Darkening of Valinor
   
6. Of the Flight of the Noldor
   
7. Of the Sindar; Of the Sun and Moon; of Men
   
8. Of the Return of the Noldor; of Beleriand and its Realms
   
9. Of the Noldor in Beleriand; Of Maeglin; Of the Coming of Men into the West
   
10. Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
    
11. Of Beren and Luthien
    
12. Of The Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
    
13. Of Turin Turambar
    
14. Of the Ruin of Doriath; Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
    
15. Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath
    
16. Akallabeth
    
17. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

Each Bullet is a new week, and each chapter title (separated by semi-colons) is a part of that week's readings. The colored one is the current section.



FAQs
What am I expected to post about?
My thoughts were that if it's kept simple and open, people will be more likely to post without feeling hassled. So, a comment for any chapter could follow the pattern of, "I liked this part the best because blah blah blah; I didn't like this because blah blah blah; I was confused at this; I wanted to read more about this; Did anyone else think this?"

I thought about having people sign up for sections and make up discussion questions and stuff, but I decided not to make it a requirement. However, if anyone has an attachment to a particular section/chapter, or maybe just feels the need to make up discussion questions, they are welcome to post or PM me, and I will include them in the Points to Consider for that week's reading.

So to answer the question: Whatever you want. Go nuts.

How long will readings usually be?
I'd like to do about 20 pages a week, which should be about 2 chapters for most weeks. Personally, I read rather quickly, so this isn't a lot for me, even with school reading and work in between. However, I don't want to go too fast in case some people can't keep up. On the other hand, you may all be pros, in which case I'll have to increase the section length. See above for weekly chapter listings.

What if I don't finish in time?
No worries. "A Week" might be shorter or longer than 7 days, depending on how well it appears everyone is progressing with the reading. I'm busy, too, so I'm going to be pretty lax about enforcing the deadlines. I would like to finish the book eventually, though, so we'll play it by ear and see how things work out.

I don't want to join now/I missed the start. Can I join later?
Yep! Jump right in.

 

[Falathrim]

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.

I have that memorized without ever making an attempt to do so.

Well, time to go read. This should be fun.*

*Eventually. Even I find the Ainulindale and the Valaquenta extremely dull.  

[Nimbrethil]

Falathrim

Well, time to go read. This should be fun.*

*Eventually. Even I find the Ainulindale and the Valaquenta extremely dull.

Duuude. That's an excellent discussion point. (And since it is, I'll save my commenting until the journal's ready. whee )  

[curumo]

Nimbrethil

Falathrim

Well, time to go read. This should be fun.*

*Eventually. Even I find the Ainulindale and the Valaquenta extremely dull.

Duuude. That's an excellent discussion point. (And since it is, I'll save my commenting until the journal's ready. whee )

I like that part. Maybe I'm nuts.  

[Hironaur]

curumo

I like that part. Maybe I'm nuts.

I liked that part too. Of course, I haven't read much past that. Only a few chapters...  

[Zurgi]

Okay...now to read that after having read the HoME ifized version.. xd  

[Falathrim]

With the guilds down, I couldn't find the journal. However, I wanted to check on that before I began the reading. I shall thusly read itonight, and hopefully post tomorrow with my ever-so-cherished response.

A pointless post, but the lack of activity in this thread was making me sad.  

[Elainya]

I read it. I didn't even know I was supposed to, but I did. I agree with Falathrim though, it's got to be the most tedious part of the whole book.  

[Hironaur]

Are we supposed to post the comments here or in the journal?  

[Nimbrethil]

Hironaur

Are we supposed to post the comments here or in the journal?

The journal.  

[Falathrim]

Wouldn't it be easier to have a discussion here, rather than in a journal, though?  

[Nimbrethil]

It'll get so disorganized if lots of people try to have side conversations all at once. If someone were to bring up several discussion points and 5 people reply to 5 different points... and then I have to keep track of what page the new chapter's discussion starts on and post it somewhere for the convenience of everyone rather than just posting a new journal and keeping them separate...

...It seemed like the easier thing to do at the time.

I could always post a poll to find out what other people like better.  

[Falathrim]

Journal comments are limited to 2000 characters. So, I'll post comments here for now. But here's a random idea: different threads for separate readings?

The Ainulindale
Loosely Affiliated With Nimbrethil's Points to Consider

Falathrim's Summary

There was Eru, the One. He made first the Ainur, or the Holy Ones, angelic beings older than the world, and older than time. The Ainur sang for Eru for countless eons, and all was bliss for many an age. But there came a time when Eru gathered the Ainur together, and he created a great theme. He willed the Valar to create a Music to complement this theme.

For awhile, at least, all was good. But Melkor, who was most like Eru, wished to interweave his own thoughts into this Music. Soon, there was discord amongst the orchestras of the Ainur. Melkor's brother in thought, Manwe, rose up against Melkor and those who followed him. Twice Eru proposed a new theme, but each time Melkor would take it as his own. Finally, Eru stood for a third time, and the Ainur were silenced.

In that moment was light brought to the Abyss, for Eru revealed to the Ainur a vision of 'Ea', the universe, the product of their Music. The Ainur were amazed, and bent their will towards this vision. In the end, when the vision had faded, Eru allowed those who willed it to descend into the universe, and to shape it for the coming of the Children of Eru, whose making was composed in the third theme.

And so the Ainur came to the universe, and passed into the world of Arda, with Melkor at their lead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Falathrim's Thoughts


So, it's a given that Melkor pretty much screwed Arda over. Thanks a lot, Melkor. Meanie. But it's okay, because in the end all wrongs shall be made right, and the world will be broken and made anew, and the Children of Iluvatar shall come forth and sing in the magnificient Second Music. Maybe. Actually, the Elves may all be dead by that point, so I guess it sucks to be them. But at least I'll get to participate. See, the Numenoreans aren't completely screwed! HAH! In your face, you smelly Firstborn! Who are the lordly ones now?

Still, I like how not even Melkor is completely evil. Okay, he becomes completely evil, but he was a good little boy in the beginning. He just wanted to be like his daddy. Interesting note Melkor recieved a small part of all the gifts of Eru. Twist the meanings a little, and you realize that of all Ainur, Melkor is most like Eru. OMGWTFBBQ!

The Valar got to look at the world in a vision, but it ended ere the beginning of what would come to be called the Fourth Age, or the Dominion of Men. This is a bit odd, however, as the Valar, once reaching Arda, seem to have no idea AT ALL what is going to happen. Sure, Manwe reflects upon the Music... once, maybe twice... and Mandos seems to remember things perfectly (except the b*****d doesn't say what he knows), but otherwise... they're a bunch of idiots.

The Valar don't have form yet, of course. In fact, all is nothingness. Which begs the question... I thought sound didn't travel withiut matter to pass through? Heh. Silly Eru and his Physics-defiance.

I suppose that's one of the reasons I don't like the Ainulindale. There is nothing to imagine in your mind. Just blobs of non-corporeal spirit making music for a bigger blob of non-corporeal spirit. Then the blobs of non-corporeal spirit look at a vision of matter for twenty seconds. Woo. Then the matter vanishes and the blobs of non-corporeal spirt get sad because they realize they are nothing but blobs of non-corporeal spirit. Finally, the bigger blob of non-corporeal spirit lets them take corporeal form, but only if they stay on the mass of matter... forever!

There were other points I was going to make, but I forgot them all while I ranted about corporealness. Oh well.

I preferred the Ainulindale of the Book of Lost Tales. Actually, I prefer tend to prefer the mode of story-telling given in BoLT all the time, but especially for the Ainulindale. Unfortunately, it's been so long since I read BoLT that I can't quite remember why I prefer BoLT. Odd. I'd read BoLT tonight if I had it with me. /

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ainulindale

And they observed the winds and the air, and the matters of which Arda was made, of iron and stone and silver and gold and many substances; but of all these water they most greatly praised. And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen.

 

[Nimbrethil]

Falathrim

...journal comments are limited to 2000 characters. So...

I like to think it encourages succintness.

You always have to win at everything, don't you? wink

Fine. Comments here and I'll curb my obsession with structure by reorganizing the first post. Now to find what I wrote up.

Edit: Separate threads might get silly if the readings are so short... what about a new thread every few readings?  

[Zurgi]

Or just post that the comments for the current reading start at page yadayada or something *shrugs*

I was reading it and got uberly confused. Seeing as I just finished reading the BoLT part 1...and yeah. It seemed to drag on compared to BoLT, which went faster.

The reason I find it hard to get through is because, as Falathrim said, there's not much to imagine. It's not that easy to see a bunch of Valar in your head looking at the future of the world and crap...and making music. When I read that this time I envisioned an orchestra and then got sidetracked thinking about what songs Emma and I could make saxophone ensemble do -__-

Anyways, going along with the orchestra image, as I was reading it it popped into my head of seeing Melkor sitting there with the drums, and then just pounding it out on the drums, which then threw everybody else's tempo off, and then they all tried to play louder than him and got confused, then just gave up and played like him. Yup.

That's the only way I could imagine the chapter as being interesting. Laughing at the thought of Melkor playing the drums. And then when Illuvatar lifted his left hand, I imagined him as the conductor, bringing everyone back to his theme, and then Melkor getting annoyed and playing louder, and so on and so forth..and then people just stopped playing because they got confused.

And then the music ceased because Melkor hit the drums so hard that the drum heads broke because Illuvatar made them break o.O

There is my imagination, believe it or not, that is how I percieve that chapter to make it more interesting. Well, that part of the chapter at least. It followed along with the whole Illuvatar as conductor and Melkor playing the drums theory.

I don't know whether this has anything to do with the reading, but meh! I'm talking about the chapter. Oh, and in my orchestra theory...none of the people playing the instruments have any form, really. Neither does the conductor. It's almost like just a bunch of shadowy figures and then really shiny pretty instruments ^___^