God exists; YOU are the deluded one

[D i v i n i t y]

Okay, well I don't actually believe in any sort of god(s) whatsoever. I'm just curious as to how some of you, guild members, would answer the following questions. I'm going to just throw some arguments at you guys. I'm just curious... I want to see the different and similar defenses/arguments/points of view. I, myself, have had some of these arguments thrown at me before but most of them are just arguments I've heard somewhere before or read somewhere. I have my own answers to them but I would like to see other people's answers. You don't have to answer EVERY question if you don't want to but I would just like to see some responses if that's not too much to ask. :]

Basically, how would you respond to these questions/ statements?

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?




That is all. I know that some of these arguments are fairly easy to shoot down since they're pretty poor arguments, but I never said I agree with any of the statements. I just think they're arguments and I want to see how people respond to them. 3nodding  

[Edi Gammon]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

I'd point out that Christians don't get their morals exclusively from the bible either, and show that people of other cultures and creeds across time have had morals no matter what they believe.


2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Who says we had no cause? Why do Christians think that in order to have a meaningful life you must believe life was caused in some specific way?


3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Or we just happen to be here at the time when life can be supported on this planet. Once upon a time there was virtually zero free oxygen in the atmosphere and the ground was molten lava.... and yes that was more than 6000 years ago. Also in the distant future the sun will go through phases that burn this place to a crisp.... and that's way sooner than the rapture is going to happen. Not to mention that living things have been freezing to death every winter (and anywhere it's cold enough), and dying of heat in the deserts, getting toasted by volcanoes et cetera. If god went through the trouble of positioning us so perfectly for life, and making this planet so perfect for life, why do we still get killed so often by the dangerous environments, weather, animals, disease, and geological events of this planet?


4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

Who says it had to come from somewhere? What's wrong with admitting that you don't know?


5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

Yup.


6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

Some of them most definitely are. The rest are probably mistaken.  

[D i v i n i t y]

Edi Gammon

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

I'd point out that Christians don't get their morals exclusively from the bible either, and show that people of other cultures and creeds across time have had morals no matter what they believe.


2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Who says we had no cause? Why do Christians think that in order to have a meaningful life you must believe life was caused in some specific way?


3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Or we just happen to be here at the time when life can be supported on this planet. Once upon a time there was virtually zero free oxygen in the atmosphere and the ground was molten lava.... and yes that was more than 6000 years ago. Also in the distant future the sun will go through phases that burn this place to a crisp.... and that's way sooner than the rapture is going to happen. Not to mention that living things have been freezing to death every winter (and anywhere it's cold enough), and dying of heat in the deserts, getting toasted by volcanoes et cetera. If god went through the trouble of positioning us so perfectly for life, and making this planet so perfect for life, why do we still get killed so often by the dangerous environments, weather, animals, disease, and geological events of this planet?


4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

Who says it had to come from somewhere? What's wrong with admitting that you don't know?


5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

Yup.


6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

Some of them most definitely are. The rest are probably mistaken.

Thanks for the post :]
I love hearing other people's opinions.  

[Jackbedead]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

We get our morals from how we were raised and our life experiences, not what someone else just told us to do without tihnking about it

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Our meaning in life is to LIVE! That is not pointless! We exist to survive and reproduce and find satisfaction

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

As stated before, our planet is NOT perfectly positioned for life. Lives are constantly being lost due to the climate/geological events etc. And besides, while we couldn't survive if we were too much closer to the sun, we COULD if earth was farther. There is some leeway there.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

I don't know yet how the universe began, but one day I think humans will figure it out. There is a lot we don't know yet, but remember that people used to believe that lightning and thunder were literally caused by an angry god until science proved otherwise. It is just a matter of time. And also, that argument works both ways. If nothing can come from nothing, what did god come from? If the answer is that he has simply always existed, then it is just as easy to say that the universe has always existed.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

Yes, yes I do.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

The word liar implies deliberate deception. While this may be true in some cases, I think most people just don't know any better. But yes I do think that they are wrong.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

This is prolly a bit confused-sounding, because I'm pretty tired.. but you'll get the general idea...

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

Morality is an evolutionary adaptation that helps the members of a society survive. It doesn't come from any god. Besides, saying that morals have to come from a god that is to be feared simply degrades morality itself by implying that people only do the right thing because they either fear punishment or desire reward.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Atheists often consider life to be much more meaningful because we just happened to show up here, and we don't believe that we have an afterlife to continue in. Without an afterlife, the actual life that we do have is seen as a much more precious thing, and a thing that should not be wasted.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

The universe isn't perfectly designed at all. Life on Earth evolves as random mutations occur - some beneficial, some harmful, some completely neutral. If someone had made the world "perfectly" there would be no need for evolution, and especially no room for harmful or useless mutations. A few billion years ago, the Earth was incapable of sustaining life and in a few billion years from now, the sun will swallow the planet and it won't sustain life then either.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

Why assume that the universe didn't always exist? Why does it make more sense to say that there was a deity that "always existed" and created the universe? If nothing had to make God, then why did something have to make the universe?

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

The bandwagon approach is not a reasonable defense of a claim. A great majority of people used to believe that the world was flat, and they WERE ALL WRONG.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

Some of them are liars; most likely the ones who are in charge. The others are likely brainwashed and/or delusional, which I say from personal experience as someone who used to believe I could feel God's presence. It's a nice, fuzzy feeling that's easy to create with the right atmosphere - the power of suggestion is immense.

 

[Xiporah]

I'm about to prove why I am an apathetic atheist and why I don't bother debating anything.

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

Morals and social behavior are taught by the previous generation.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Untrue. Life gained purpose when burritos and tacos were invented.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Which is why stars that don't blow up correctly collapse into black holes swallow everything around them. Which is why asteroids have smashed into the planet numerous times. Which is why tektonic plates move and volcanos erupt and tsumani's destroy entire islands and beaches erode and dog s**t smells. Because everything is perfect and unflawed.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

Matter can always be created, but after it is created, it can only be changed. never completely destroyed. Durr da durr. How? Because I said so.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

Don't really care if they're right or wrong. As long as they leave me alone.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

It's probably just indigestion.

 

[SkeletonPhoenix]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

We are the ones with the greater morals. Not everything is black and white and we see that so we try to chose the ones that will people will benifit the most from.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

We have a cause it's just that each individuals is diffrent.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Chaos and randomness make things seem like they were created by someone.LOLZ.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

0/0?

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

well, duh. Most humans are morons.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

No, I think they should have gone to more therapy as a child.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals
Morals do not have to come from religion.


mor·al

mor·al [máwrəl]
adj
1. involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave
2. derived from personal conscience: based on what somebody's conscience suggests is right or wrong, rather than on what rules or the law says should be done
3. according to common standard of justice: regarded in terms of what is known to be right or just, as opposed to what is officially or outwardly declared to be right or just
a moral victory.
4. encouraging goodness and decency: giving guidance on how to behave decently and honorably
5. good by accepted standards: good or right, when judged by the standards of the average person or society at large
6. able to tell right from wrong: able to distinguish right from wrong and to make decisions based on that knowledge
7. based on personal conviction: based on an inner conviction, in the absence of physical proof
moral certainty
While religion can be inferred into some of those statements (" according to common standard of justice") The definition of moral does not include religious beliefs governing your code of conduct.


2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause
Just because one rose with a cause does not inherently grant that life a meaning;
Just as because one rose with no cause does not prevent one from having a meaning.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that
Not nessicarily;
Life cannt live everywhere on earth.
Life can burn to death in their own home.
Perfection is subjective.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?
Why must nothing arise from nothing?
There are many theories upon this matter: we may never know.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?
In the sense that I do not agree with their beliefs, yes, but I do not condemn their descision.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?
I met a man who spends his life dedicated to God (Currently working without pay as a youth pastor.)
His description of God was not as such.
To this day the only people I have heard of claiming to speak directly to God are seeking attention. Besides the prophets of old.
I am more inclined to believe said pastors definition than what this quotation tells me people believe.
In any case, I am not calling the man a liar.
I am merely asserting that my beliefs are different than the ones he has devoted himself to.  

[Sors]

Sors

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals
Just because I have no one telling me what to do, doesn't mean I don't understand how my actions affect mine and other's lives. I know if I steal something, some else must pay for it. I know if I kill someone I'm taking away someone people love, and I'm destroying the most amazing thing in the world (life). I'm not stupid. I make my own morals based on what I understand of my environment.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Not true. I have loads to live for: beauty, love, friendship, discovery, dreams. I love my life, it's may be "pointless" in the universe, but it's important to me.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that
Not really. If the earth was closer to the sun then more bacteria would have evolved like the thermophilic bacteria that inhabit yellowstone's national park. Same thing if we were further away.
PLUS, universe is infinitely huge, the perfect conditions were bound to happen somewhere at some time.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?
Big bang, string theory, stuff like that. They're currently doing experiments at CERN to discover the answers to those questions. And no the big bang doesn't mean something came from nothing, read a book.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?
Sure. People are stupid. I'm stupid too, I could be wrong. But this is what I think.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?
Yes. I think they have schizophrenia or some other disorder.

 

[cabbage3]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

Yeah. Logic and rationality count for NOTHING. I shouldn't touch the hot stove because my really big book with really small print said so!

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

someone: Cabbage3, Does life have a purpose, or is it meaningless?
Me: Yes.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Dr. Who! Have you been messing with the history of the Earth again?
Anywho, do you think that we're the ONLY ones who were that lucky? There aren't ANY other planets out there? Uh huh.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

0/0? L'HOSPITAL'S RULE! YAAAAAY

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

A lot of people in America voted for Bush as president. And so did the Electoral College..... Nawwwww a million people CAN'T be wrong...

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

I call them adorable, in the sweetest condescending way  

[Sanguvixen]

Here is my answer....as if talking to someone who is a theist.
1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals


Atheists do have morals. They have a sense of right and wrong based on what is and isn't beneficial society. When they decide to condone something it is because there is something actually wrong with it, not because some book over a thousand years old, and a thousands years out of date says so.

How do you know something is wrong? Does it hurt you? Does it hurt others? Doesn't it hurt society? What more do we need to know that that? Because it doesn't hurt you, others, and society why call it wrong?

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

Atheists do not believe life is meaningless. It is quite the opposite. Atheists tend to believe that we have but one life to live and it is of the utmost importance that we that life to it's fullest. Life is meant to be lived....and if you don't live in the one life we know to have, than you will regret it when you are lying on your death bed.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

There is no such thing as perfection. The only way for something to be perfect is for it to be perfect for everyone. It is not possible to find something to please everyone because everyone will find at least one flaw in anything, therefore the idea of perfection is a logical fallacy rendering the rest of this moot. There is no such thing as perfection, ergo there is no such thing as a perfect world.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?

??? That's not an argument? That's complete idiocy.

The argument people often make is that you cannot having something from nothing. When you stop to think about it, logically it's true. That is why perhaps we are wrong to require for there to be a first beginning, when logically it makes no sense. So perhaps there does not exist a beginning. Maybe the universe has always been there, and always will, and life is the constant cycle of matter forming, reforming, and time spawning life, and then taking it away.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?

If a great majority of people believed it was a good idea to jump off a cliff, would you consider them wrong as they fall to their deaths? A majority of people at one time believed the world to be flat....but that majority of people didn't make it true. So in essence they all could be wrong because majority belief means nothing.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

My first response is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMqMf1K7y6I

But all humor aside....people will themselves into believing anything. People will lie to themselves and them believe their own lies. Does it not bother anyone that many "Born again Christians" were heavy druggies, who were under the influence of mind altering drugs when they were touched by the spirit of "God"?

In any case we have a special term for people who hear voices in their head. They are called Schizophrenics. In any case if people want to believe in this kind of stuff for happy fuzzy feelings more power to them. Just don't get upset when other people like myself choose to disassociate with religion.
 

[Jane Jade]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals
So I have no morals because I don't need some invisible man in the sky to tell me what's right and wrong? True morality is doing something because it's the right thing, not becase God said so.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause
Why does everything need a cause? Do we decide anything for ourselves?

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that
We just happen to be on Earth when life can be supported here. It wasn't always like this, and it won't always be this way.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?
I don't know. Could it have always been there? Could it have just appeared? Why does everything need an explanation?

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?
Yes.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?
Some are. Others are just deluding themselves. It only takes a little convincing for some people to think that those warm, fuzzy feelings are God.  

[PathlessPlot]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals

You know you may be right. Let me just go out and murder babies because I don't believe in a God. Seriously guys, I sure there have been plenty of murderers and seriel killers/rapists out there who would claim to be Christian.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause

I often find myself living life to the fullest because I am aware that this is the only chance I have got. This is just bull@#$%

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that

Chance. Coincedence. Life is full of both of these. If you claim it to be divine power then I can very well claim that is just happened that way.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?
One can hypothesize all sorts of responses to that question, but when one gets right down to it nobody really knows. Nobody can know. I am just as happy to be here without trying to wonder how the first something came about. Doesn't mean I am willing to accept religion's point of view on it though.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?
Simply put...yes.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?

I will not call them liars (although some may be consciously lying) just deluded.  

[Skadefro]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals
Who says an atheist can't beleive in the morals set by the Bible or Qur'an? A person can beleive in the values set by a holy text without having to fear a greater power.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause
That is all based on perspective. While some base their idea of the meaning of life as worshipping a god, I base mine in the pursuit of knowledge. A person can be fufilled from learning just as much as religion.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that
To quote the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy "Space is big. Really big. You won't beleive how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly bug it is."
In such a huge universe, I'd find it hard to beleive not even one little rock would be lucky enough to find some mold growing on itself.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How?
But who says something came from nothing? We know almost nothing about how the universe works, and I like to beleive in eternity.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong?
I beleive they're wrong in a literal sense, but in the sense of having a guiding force and purpose in life? No.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars?
Not liars. Lying is when you say something you know isn't true. They beleive what they say is the truth? Fine. Its only when they use this as an ulterior motive to do something terrible that I will call them a liar.  

[Zekeachu]

1- Atheists have no morals because they have nowhere to turn to to get their morals No, we get our morals from our parents, common sense, from a whole shitload of places. Being Atheist just takes away one possible source, as far as I know. Not all religious people have good morals.

2- Atheists believe life is meaningless because we arose with no cause I could care less, truth be told. I'm living, and I'm having fun doing it right now dammit.

3- The universe is so perfectly designed. The earth is so perfectly positioned for life so that life can actually live on earth without freezing or burning to death. It all just works out too perfectly. Someone must've made it like that Out of all the ridiculous amount of galaxies, suns, and planets, at least one is bound to be somewhere in the range of life. As some other people said, if it was perfect, nothing would be dying due to climate.

4- Nothing can only come from nothing; so where did this first something come from? How? I dunno.

5- A great majority of people believe in God. Do you really think they're ALL wrong? If I thought they were right, I'd be some form of theist. Which I'm not.

6- What about all those people who claim that they can feel God's presence and can actually converse with him? Are you calling them all liars? In their mind, maybe they really heard god/whatever telling them something. Why? I dunno. Maybe some people believe so hard they hear it?