Shamanic Self-Annihilation Thing

[Rustig]

(Crossposted from the MPRILC).

I've heard this notion that, upon initiation into their craft, shamans of Some Unnamed Culture experience a vision quest where they are taken outside of themselves to watch as their body is devoured by a pack of wild animals. Thing is, I don't know where this story comes from, or even if it's true - does anyone have any sources to indicate tribes, cultures or systems where this idea is utilised or originated?  

[Cunning Witch Angus]

Wassail!

Great topic. I too have heard of this, have just finished a book on trance-work (go figure). This death of the ego mind happens in a lot of shamanistic cultures, including some forms of traditional witchcraft! It is to help the mystic see with a new awareness. He no longer thinks of himself as a separate entity but as something connected to the whole of the universe.

It is a very traumatic experience so I am told.

I don't know any shamans that have done it but I know a few witches that this has happened to. That is why they call it "Wrestling with the Devil."

Be Whole!  

[Terg]

A lot of initiation rituals have to do with some form of self annihilation.

- Indigenous initiation rituals into a shamanhood or priesthood can be fatal. Practicies include scarring, trying dangerous entheogens, poisonous insects, knocking out teeth with pieces of wood or stone, and the list goes on. I think the indigenous people of Australia have a long ritual that lasts days, where most die.

- Urban legend says that the mafia makes new members drive out to the desert at gunpoint, and dig their own grave. Some street gangs "jump" new members, where they essentially ambush them and beat them senseless.

I think the self annihilation is part of being a meditator between this world and the tribe you belong to. How else could you traverse the world of forms and the world of spirits but if you died a little?  

[Chieftain Twilight]

perhaps these sources will be usefull? i've only just skimmed them realy...

http://www.phlogiston.nl/qawwali/Qawwali_sjaman.htm
http://www.jungcircle.com/self.html
http://www.astrostar.com/articles/ShamanicDeath.htm  

[D_Marx]

And this is why I don't seek out people with that magnitude of power. sad No offense if you find my comment demeaning, but I'm not Shaman [at least I don't think I am] so rituals are a little stranger than what I'm used to so I get apprehensive.

I like my small town power stuff more, less frightening than Wrestling with the Devil. Though part of me is intrigued with the rituals people, it's pretty frightening what people will do to rise to a higher level of consciousness. Part of me wishes I had that could go through with it but I've too many anchors where I am.

It's a strong power, I've come across one thing left behind in my apartment, huge presence. You sort of learn to respect it and it leaves you alone. [sorry, jumbles in my head]  

[erinnightwalker]

well the shamanic self annihilation thing that i heard about (which i cannot for the life of me remember where i read it crying i do remember it was in more than one spot though....) was that the spirits took the shaman out of his body and tore off all the flesh and skin and meaty bits off the bones, revealing the skeleton. the skeleton was then rummaged through until the "shaman's bone" was found. apparently, if you didn't have the aforementioned bone you wouldn't survive the process. having found the bone, the spirits would then put you back together, having found you worthy of being a shaman.

i can think of a few interpretations of this story. for one, it separates the shaman from the "normal" people thrice over- once by being ripped apart, twice by having the bone, and thrice by being put back together. for another, the spirits have given him "life", so they could be seen as having to watch over their "child" now.

i wish i could remember where i read this... i think in one of the versions there was an explanation from that culture's point of view....