Isn't This Just Sooooo Sweet of the Democrats - Another tax

[Twizzle Dizzle Red]

Here's a new one. Sugar. Now they are looking at taxing things you like to drink. Soda is the big one. Lot of tax revenue to be made from sugar. Oh and they are only gonna tax the ones that have sugar in it. Not the diet ones. So now they are after the farmers who make sugar. Everything has sugar in it even fruit. So if sugar gets a tax hike like it did in New York your gonna pay an extra 11 cents per can. Sweet huh?  

[Lexille]

im already storing up on goods like flour, corn meal, SUGAR, etc. (put in mylar bags and then into water proof storage buckets...) and preparing for the worst. i just can't even grasps how democratic congress think that hiking up taxes is going to help the economy, its even worse if you happen to be "wealthy" why should i pay more just because i went to college, earned a degree, and work for a living... its not just handed to me!

argh... pisses me off... scream  

[Twizzle Dizzle Red]

We need the entire country just as pissed off as we are. The government belongs to we the people. They just don't happen to think so. But their gonna know pretty soon. Tax and spend is what the democrats are all about. Always have been. I am just as pissed at the republicans for not standing up for us up there on the hill. The economy been going this way since congress became democratic. Obama, pelosi, franks, dodd, and all the rest of them are a bunch of lunatics. Government isn't what made America the great country it is. Americans like you and me did that. Government never makes things better and they can't "fix" anything either since they are the ones who created the problem to start with. You can't spend your way out of a recession. We have never seen anything like this before EVER. It's not joke and it damn sure is not time to lie down and just lick your wounds. We have to fight back and right now. If we don't, America is lost forever. People are waking up. Freedom is being lost by the day and we have really great people out there fighting back. Knowledge is key. Follow Ron Pauls Campaign for Liberty if you don't already. There is absolutely no reason for this. It makes no sensse that people just let them do what they want to do and no one is ever held accountable. There is a new book out that is terrific. It's called Liberty and Tyanny by Mark Levin. You can find it on Amazon.com. This man tells it like it is. They don't have the power to do what they are doing, just not enough of the country is standing in their face. Bill HR1207 has a real chance of passing now. This is Ron Paul's Audit the Fed bill. This is most of the problem and he is after them big time. Now the bill has 150 co-sponsers and gaining steam everyday. I talked to a guy just last night from sweden. He told me that what the banks did caused a great problem around the world. They did not do what they are supposed to do and they are never held accountable. and they can't be because there is no law that says they have to show what the money is spent on or anything. That's just wrong. Since we are the ones who have to pay all that money back. And not just us either. For the next probably 4 generations or so they will be paying it back. All this time we have heard how bad and dangerous marijuana is. Now california wants to legalize it. Why? because it creates billions in tax revenue. Go figure. bad for you? hah! just like they said hemp was bad. then it was good. then it was bad again. It was never bad but they put a lot of people out of work because they made it illegal. The car manufacturers. They all had to move out of the country just so they can have a business and make a profit. Government shouldn't ever come into the private sector. Ever. This is gonna make people have to buy electric cars now. Can you afford that in this tax and spend day? No more gas and there is no shortage at all of the fossil fuels. But they make you think there is. Just like the hoax of the swine flu and they called it a pandemic. Look how quickly that went away. If it were a pandemic, it would have been unstoppable. God the lies are driving me nuts!  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Are you against the Cigarette 'sin' tax?

If so, you shouldn't be offended by a tax on soda (though this is just part of this tax.) Soda is believed by many nutritionists to be part of the American Obesity Epidemic!

I'm understand why they're all for a soda tax. So far as I'm concerned our big businesses that Republicans thrive to share about how much we need to help them for our economy is nothing but BS. They are the ones who irresponsibly budgeted for their own greed, then beg for bankruptcy money, only to spend it on the same damn people who make the mistake. The government may be irresponsible at this time, but the people can change that, we can't change the owner of corporations except through failed boycott attempts!  

[Lexille]

Mouse, she was stating sugar in general...

First off, if people decide to destroy there lives buy smoking or consuming more than their share of sugary sodas, thats their choice... its known as liberty and freedom. It was ONCE a right and to many things are being decided for us these days.

putting a tax on soda is pretty much overkill (put a tax on it cause we can sort of thing) as it would also include juices and concentrates as well... heck, they might as well make a candy tax, cake tax, ice cream tax, etc...

as for the cigarette tax, sure, it makes sense to put more tax on it if YOU don't smoke and consider it an unhealthy form of life style... since its bad, people should just do away with it right?

but the taxes dont just affect the consumer, but also the tobacco producer and the seller (grocery stores, gas stations, etc.) and so they have to jack up the prices to break even. it affects everyone.

and getting rid of tobacco in the U.S. altogether is just plain unrealistic...

so sugar, tobacco... high taxes on that is the real BS

and i dont believe you will find a republican that will celebrate the fact that Bush bailed out GM, various banks, etc.

As for obama... rising taxes, the $787billion dollar stimulis, and the new deficit.... spending money to make money is like ******** for abstinence.  

[Twizzle Dizzle Red]

well think about it. If they tax sugar they can then say oh now we gotta put a tax on salt. It's bad for your health. What are they trying do? Control health care. I am soooo NOT for nationalized health care. That gives them control on just about everything.

Tax, according to the constitution is supposed to benefit the GENERAL welfare. That's what it says. READ IT ! Income tax is unconstitutional. What do they do with the money?

Now medicare is just about done. It failed. and they want to model the new health care bill after the medicare bill? Energy is another one. They don't have a right to all this stuff. NONE. The next few generations, are going to be too busy paying off all this debt to even be able to think about owning a home. Let alone trying to get a job (because there aren't any) to pay for one.

Property tax
phone tax
communications tax
and on and on and on

Taxes are supposed to be used to fund things like roads and infrastructure. Things that EVERYBODY uses. Not just one specific group. give this group a little money and that group a little money, pretty soon you have groups that have no money at all. Now what? How you gonna pay your tax? Can't pay your tax? go sleep in the park. That's where its going. Its a power game and the more you let them take because of knowledge that you lack, the more liberty and freedom you lose. And you got a whole long life to live yet.  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

Soda is believed by many nutritionists to be part of the American Obesity Epidemic!

So what? Lifestyle management is not the job of government. Would you want a conservative government to slap a huge consumptive tax on condoms? Or how about if Scientologists gained a majority sticking huge consumptive taxes on anti-depressants? Giving government the power to micromanage people's lives based on their priorities opens the door to groups you don't agree with hitting things you don't want them going after. Not a smart move.

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im already storing up on goods like flour, corn meal, SUGAR, etc. (put in mylar bags and then into water proof storage buckets...) and preparing for the worst.

Overreact much do we? There's been liberals in office before, there will be liberals again. There's been conservatives in office before, there will be conservatives again. Treating this like the friggin' apocalypse is at your door is just stupid. In 4-8 years you'll have a Republican president, and a whole bunch of useless mylar bags of flour, corn meal, and sugar.  

[Lexille]

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im already storing up on goods like flour, corn meal, SUGAR, etc. (put in mylar bags and then into water proof storage buckets...) and preparing for the worst.

Overreact much do we? There's been liberals in office before, there will be liberals again. There's been conservatives in office before, there will be conservatives again. Treating this like the friggin' apocalypse is at your door is just stupid. In 4-8 years you'll have a Republican president, and a whole bunch of useless mylar bags of flour, corn meal, and sugar.

cheaply bought food stored in ones cellar will never be useless...

(i might decide to have a cake baking party...)

cant say i call it "overreacting" as more "prepared" for anything, and ive always stored extra food (im like a squirrel that way?) i think even if we had a great president and life was peachy, theres nothing wrong with wishing to be totally self sufficient and not have the worry of having to depend on someone else.

now back on topic...

i totally agree with you on the point that lifestyle management is not the job of the government... besides, soda isnt what makes one fat, its a multitude of many specific life choices that makes one overweight...

so if you sit around all day like a lazy a**, eat junk food and/or drink soda... you will most likely get fat...  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

Soda is believed by many nutritionists to be part of the American Obesity Epidemic!

So what? Lifestyle management is not the job of government. Would you want a conservative government to slap a huge consumptive tax on condoms? Or how about if Scientologists gained a majority sticking huge consumptive taxes on anti-depressants? Giving government the power to micromanage people's lives based on their priorities opens the door to groups you don't agree with hitting things you don't want them going after. Not a smart move.

I don't see a problem with a small managed tax on things like cigarettes, alcohol, hell they could legalize weed and tax it, and I wouldn't mind. The government needs money, people don't need tobacco, alcohol(, or weed.)

I do agree that the soda tax would be a little much, consider everything that's taxed. However, I'd understand if they did it!  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

cheaply bought food stored in ones cellar will never be useless...

I've got a basement full of tomato preserves that would beg to differ. And, really, I can only eat so much raspberry jelly before I want to open my wrists.

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theres nothing wrong with wishing to be totally self sufficient and not have the worry of having to depend on someone else.

I'm sure that island you intend to move to would be great. On the mainland, you will always depend on people. Got your own Abrams Tank? Then you will rely on people for protection from other people. Own several hundred acres of land? Then you will rely on other people for the flour you store, the meat you eat, and the lovely food products you use to make more complex dishes out of non-native produce. Oh, wait, you do? Love to see where you're getting your fertilizers and persticides from without other people. Got your own anvil and forge? You will be relying on others for tools. Do you have both. . . you know. . . parts? You'll be needing (an)other (person)people (or whatever floats your boat on that one) to have children. Do you have your own neo-natal care fascility? You'll be needing other people for that care. Do you know how to develop the anti-biotics and vaccines you will use? You get where I'm going with this, people.

By now, you've probably got a small group of people you are conceding you absolutely need to subsist. You've probably named off more than even I could pretend to in that list. Assuming the world absolutely breaks down and you have these people nearby to you, you're all going to have to work out a way to live. This is called "society." Now, forming society is going to involve tradeoffs of your absolute liberty in order for the protection and benefits of society. This is called social contract. By means of this social contract we are called upon to administer it through a form of governance. Governance will determine the policies all members of society will be subject to through "laws." Laws will, at least in part, try to represent parts of society that have their own role, called "interests." In the above example, the doctors that deliver your children would be a unique interest from the black smiths that make your tools. Now, laws, in an attempt to best balance the interests in society, will frequentlly impact groups across all interests. For example, those people you have for protection will need to be equipped and paid for their services. As protection is a public good, society as a whole will be called upon to pay for it. Government will determine how that payment occurs. Now, sometimes in serving one interest in society, others are called upon to pay for something that does not directly benefit them. For example, you need a road to move your produce from your land to the mill for processing. The blacksmith doesn't need the road, but pays for it anyways through government policy. On some other issue, it'll be you paying for the blacksmith.

Now, to tie it all into the subject. Government determines it needs to pay for something, and levies a tax. You have two ways of coping with this. You can flake out, horde resources, proclaim the world is coming to an end, and deride the people taxing you, or you can understand that government is sometimes going to do some things you don't like, engage in dialogue about the direction and rationales of policy, and seek to change it, or come to accept it. Maturity trumps irrational panic. So, rather than horde baking ingredients and prepare for some liberal kristallnacht, we can accept that government policy sometimes isn't going to go our way, talk with those who disagree with us, win them over, and bring about reform to public policy that changes it for the better. And, when we do prevail, you will, of course, throw that cake baking party and invite the winning team will you not? Just for reference, I like buttercream frosting, with lots of sugar. wink  

[Lord Bitememan]

Mouse, you get your own post here.

Quote:

The government needs money, people don't need

What people don't need is a very broad category, and we can strip lots of the joy and beauty of life by diving in to plunder the potential revenue of luxury. You need food, water, shelter, and sleep. Government needs money. Behold a list of things we could tax that we don't need, and government could get money from:
Books
Video Games
DVDs
Art
Birth Control
Psychiatric Medication
Internet Access
Pets
Photography
Paper
Pencils
CDs
Lava Lamps

You get the point. What you do need is a very slim selection of things, and what you don't need is a very broad panalpy of items we are all less enriched for losing. I could come up with all kinds of reasons to tax any one of those items up there, and it would serve some idea-nazi's cause. But why bother? It boils down to this, a government that can tell you what you should and shouldn't do with your personal life can also open the door to anyone injecting their values into the mix. Instead we go from a society where self determination is an enshrined value to where collective determination is decided at the whims of those in power. If someone wants to be fat, let them be fat. They'll die in their 50s after a full working life paying into the social security system, and they won't live to recoup a dime. Same with the smokers too. And, if you want to be skinny and eat tofu, the same system that lets me chunk up lets you slim down too. Deciding that I have to be skinny and live to be 90 is a moral choice you make for me, and we know the dangers of others getting to make moral choices for you.  

[Twizzle Dizzle Red]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

Soda is believed by many nutritionists to be part of the American Obesity Epidemic!

You show me which nutritionist said that. Your not hearing it from the nutritionist. Your hearing it from the liberals. It's their way of gettin their hands into yet something else which belongs to the American people. Our healthcare. We already have the best healthcare system in the entire world, so why would we want to change it in any way? and for your information sugar is a natural food and it is not fattening! It does not cause diabetes, or any of that other stuff you've been hearing. Instead of taking the crap you hear from commercials, government, ect. to heart, just go talk to a real nutritionis, a doctor, whoever. They aren't liking this either. People who actually work in the field would debate you up one side and down the other. sugar is in everything. including things which are supposedly good for you like orange juice. Now how much tax should you pay for orange juice? You cannot listen to bs. Its just like global warming. It's a bridge they are trying to sell you. Its not scientist who are saying this. It's government trying to get the masses to believe it, and it was one way they used to get to the car industry. open your eyes.

 

[Lexille]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

cheaply bought food stored in ones cellar will never be useless...

I've got a basement full of tomato preserves that would beg to differ. And, really, I can only eat so much raspberry jelly before I want to open my wrists.

Quote:

theres nothing wrong with wishing to be totally self sufficient and not have the worry of having to depend on someone else.

I'm sure that island you intend to move to would be great. On the mainland, you will always depend on people. Got your own Abrams Tank? Then you will rely on people for protection from other people. Own several hundred acres of land? Then you will rely on other people for the flour you store, the meat you eat, and the lovely food products you use to make more complex dishes out of non-native produce. Oh, wait, you do? Love to see where you're getting your fertilizers and persticides from without other people. Got your own anvil and forge? You will be relying on others for tools. Do you have both. . . you know. . . parts? You'll be needing (an)other (person)people (or whatever floats your boat on that one) to have children. Do you have your own neo-natal care fascility? You'll be needing other people for that care. Do you know how to develop the anti-biotics and vaccines you will use? You get where I'm going with this, people.

By now, you've probably got a small group of people you are conceding you absolutely need to subsist. You've probably named off more than even I could pretend to in that list. Assuming the world absolutely breaks down and you have these people nearby to you, you're all going to have to work out a way to live. This is called "society." Now, forming society is going to involve tradeoffs of your absolute liberty in order for the protection and benefits of society. This is called social contract. By means of this social contract we are called upon to administer it through a form of governance. Governance will determine the policies all members of society will be subject to through "laws." Laws will, at least in part, try to represent parts of society that have their own role, called "interests." In the above example, the doctors that deliver your children would be a unique interest from the black smiths that make your tools. Now, laws, in an attempt to best balance the interests in society, will frequentlly impact groups across all interests. For example, those people you have for protection will need to be equipped and paid for their services. As protection is a public good, society as a whole will be called upon to pay for it. Government will determine how that payment occurs. Now, sometimes in serving one interest in society, others are called upon to pay for something that does not directly benefit them. For example, you need a road to move your produce from your land to the mill for processing. The blacksmith doesn't need the road, but pays for it anyways through government policy. On some other issue, it'll be you paying for the blacksmith.

Now, to tie it all into the subject. Government determines it needs to pay for something, and levies a tax. You have two ways of coping with this. You can flake out, horde resources, proclaim the world is coming to an end, and deride the people taxing you, or you can understand that government is sometimes going to do some things you don't like, engage in dialogue about the direction and rationales of policy, and seek to change it, or come to accept it. Maturity trumps irrational panic. So, rather than horde baking ingredients and prepare for some liberal kristallnacht, we can accept that government policy sometimes isn't going to go our way, talk with those who disagree with us, win them over, and bring about reform to public policy that changes it for the better. And, when we do prevail, you will, of course, throw that cake baking party and invite the winning team will you not? Just for reference, I like buttercream frosting, with lots of sugar. wink

lol, why are we even arguing this? its not important.

we were talking about the tax on soda, not my prefered lifestyle, lets try to stay on topic...

but i feel honored to be so popular... rofl  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Quote:

What people don't need is a very broad category, and we can strip lots of the joy and beauty of life by diving in to plunder the potential revenue of luxury. You need food, water, shelter, and sleep. Government needs money. Behold a list of things we could tax that we don't need, and government could get money from:
Books
Video Games
DVDs
Art
Birth Control
Psychiatric Medication
Internet Access
Pets
Photography
Paper
Pencils
CDs
Lava Lamps

I was more so referring to big business than to the everyday American, the everyday American may want these things but does not need them... however when things like.... oh I don't know Reality Corporations don't budget right and cause a nation-wide economic fear (which made the economy worse) I don't see the justice in multiple businesses having that much control!

Quote:

We already have the best healthcare system in the entire world, so why would we want to change it in any way?

The only "healthcare system" we have is Medicare and Medicaid, the rest is privatized with bad access for the poor of the middle class... our government set's such a low poverty threshold that many people cannot get the benifits of medicaid, and have to hope for a better healthcare!

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sugar is a natural food and it is not fattening

Sugar is natural, however, it's already in the things we eat "naturally" we add many additives to our sugar. Aside from this, there's not just sugar in pop, there's caffeine, dyes, and many chemicals that aren't needed for our body... nor is it healthy for too much to be consumed. Again, at this point, I just commented that a Soda Tax would be nice, not a Sugar Tax.

Rainbowfied Mouse

you shouldn't be offended by a tax on soda (though this is just part of this tax.)
I understand why they're all for a soda tax.

A tax on sugar is a tax on most foods. I was just talking about one small example that was given (which was Soda.)

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You show me which nutritionist said that.

[ x ]
[ x ]  

[Lord Bitememan]

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I was more so referring to big business than to the everyday American, the everyday American may want these things but does not need them... however when things like.... oh I don't know Reality Corporations don't budget right and cause a nation-wide economic fear (which made the economy worse) I don't see the justice in multiple businesses having that much control!

Yeah, but taxing products isn't going to change that. These business aren't just going to eat the cost of these products. They're going to pass them along to consumers, along with increased prices to profiteer off the increased taxes. It's not going to alter business behavior in any other way, and it's going to make the things people buy to lighten up their lives more expensive and out of reach for more of the poor. The tax isn't being levied because government wants to alter corporate behavior, it's being levied by greedy legislators who are thinking about more pork to steer back to their home districts, and it's being done under the guise of moral crusaders trying to save you from your sins whether you like it or not, in this case the "sin" of "obesity."

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The only "healthcare system" we have is Medicare and Medicaid, the rest is privatized with bad access for the poor of the middle class... our government set's such a low poverty threshold that many people cannot get the benifits of medicaid, and have to hope for a better healthcare!

No system is perfect. However, the system has some clear benefits not extant in other systems. Did you notice we pretty much stomp the rest of the world in pharmaceutical research? Surely you noticed this living over there in west Mich, where Pfizer lives. See, there's a reason for that. Companies develop pharmaceuticals here and offer them to us first because we don't slap price controls on medications. Drug companies recoup the development costs here and turn a profit before they offer the drug in price controlled countries. Why? If the companies sold the drug under price controlled conditions they would never recoup the cost of development and they would lose money on the drug. Companies that lose money marketing products. . . well. . . you have noticed what's happening to GM and Chrysler, right? If we went the Euro route of government payment for drugs coupled with strict price controls on them, kiss cutting edge drugs goodbye.

This is all just rampant speculation on my part, right? The US practices no price controls on drugs. Canada price controls them. There was a big to do a while back about the cheaper drugs in Canada. My wife takes Stratera for ADD. . . when we can afford it. We figured "Canada must have it cheaper, right?" We called a pharmacy in Canada, the drug isn't offered there.

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Aside from this, there's not just sugar in pop

You think pop is still made with sugar? Where have you been? It's made from high fructose corn syrup. If you defined the tax as being on sugar, the soft drink companies would actually get around this one because "sugar" in common usage refers to glucose. The active sweetener in pop is fructose, a "sugar" but not what you refer to in the common vernacular.

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lol, why are we even arguing this?

because you said this:

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im already storing up on goods like flour, corn meal, SUGAR, etc. (put in mylar bags and then into water proof storage buckets...) and preparing for the worst.

in response to the original post. That led me to believe that you did not do it as a general practice, but in response to recent political developments. In as much you triggered my "we are Republicans, we are better than Democrats, and we will not engage in Obama derangement syndrome just because Dems acted nuts when Bush was in office" reflex. If this was in error I apologize. If you were just sharing random factoids of your life the response was not warranted, though I would say "you first" as to who took this off topic. But, in full merited fashion I could share some similar random off topic factoids about my lifestyle if this is par for the course. Damnit I don't want to be left out on getting to talk about me. razz