Removing "Under God" from the pledge

[[Satan]]

(I want to make this subforum a little more active, so to help a little I'll make the first thread this subforum has ever seen. heart )

Anyways, I was in Civics while we were discussing an article about the guy who was trying to remove "Under God" from the pledge recently, and I felt like talking about it. I personally believe it is unconstitutional due to the fact that whoever added this to the pledge is completely ignoring the first amendment. Sadly, our government is too ignorant and close minded too care, which seriously pisses me off. Tom Delay says, "The pledge is an important part of our nation and is essential that it is recited to show your patriotism". Which, I believe is a completely irrelavent and idiotic thing to say. Do we really have to say that we believe in God to be patriotic? Just recently, a supreme court justice decided to remove the pledge from certain designated schools in California. Though, I don't know about anywhere else that is having the pledge of allegiance removed so far.

Discuss:
-Am I overreacting considering that I am getting pissed about two simple words in the pledge of allegiance?
-Do you find the pledge of allegiance unconstitutional?  

[Orichalcon]

Did you know that the phrase "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950's, and that the original writers of said pledge did not intend that phrase to be in there?

I think the phrase should be removed becasue a country that claims religious freedom as one of it's merits shouldn't associate itself with one particular god.

and just for referance, because I know there are active posters in this guild that are not American, the American Pledge of Allegiance is recited as follows, with one hand placed over one's heart:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation, under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all."

It should also be noted that I never recite the pledge, because I refuse to give my allegiance to something I don't trust.

( heart first reply in the new subforum)  

[Dathu]

Meh, I mean if they remove it, that's cool, but I just think there are bigger issues to fight about than that. I'd rather focus on gay marriages and abortion that reciting two words. But, I do get what you're upset about, and you're right to be so.  

[Grand Moff Locket]

Dathu

Meh, I mean if they remove it, that's cool, but I just think there are bigger issues to fight about than that. I'd rather focus on gay marriages and abortion that reciting two words. But, I do get what you're upset about, and you're right to be so.

Yeah...

I don't think we'll be getting very much hardcore debate in here, since we all agree on s**t.  

[Dathu]

Grand Moff Locket

Dathu

Meh, I mean if they remove it, that's cool, but I just think there are bigger issues to fight about than that. I'd rather focus on gay marriages and abortion that reciting two words. But, I do get what you're upset about, and you're right to be so.

Yeah...

I don't think we'll be getting very much hardcore debate in here, since we all agree on s**t.

xd I know, but hey, great minds think alike. Besides, I'm sure we'll find something to debate about and it never hurts to try.  

[caustic 0_0]

Dathu

Grand Moff Locket

Dathu

Meh, I mean if they remove it, that's cool, but I just think there are bigger issues to fight about than that. I'd rather focus on gay marriages and abortion that reciting two words. But, I do get what you're upset about, and you're right to be so.

Yeah...

I don't think we'll be getting very much hardcore debate in here, since we all agree on s**t.

xd I know, but hey, great minds think alike. Besides, I'm sure we'll find something to debate about and it never hurts to try.

^^ I've seen a few debates around. There was quite some dissension in whatever topic twas that was about death.

I think it should be removed. It's extremely backwards to expect someone to include God in a pledge to a country where they are supposed to have religious freedom.

I did some research out of curiosity.
(http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm)
"His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]
....
If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'"

I just hope it doesn't get worse if their prediction of it being changed again is true Dx I think dropping the God reference and adding equality would be a good change.  

[[Satan]]

Orichalcon

Did you know that the phrase "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950's, and that the original writers of said pledge did not intend that phrase to be in there?

Yes. 3nodding I recite the pledge the old fashioned way. One teacher actually lowered my grade for doing so. Though, I still skip "Under God".  

[Din_of_Serenity]

I just like, skip "undet god". I usually get looks when people realize what I'm doing.  

[Tiptoer]

most people at my school know I'm atheist because tis a small school, but I'm still nervous about it, so whenver I recite the pledge, I don't say Under god, I just cough or scratch my face, lol.  

[subtleessence134]

I merely stand at a military at-ease stance with my feet spread to shoulder length and both hands clasped behind my back. No one can get on my case for not showing due respect to what should be a symbol of freedom. However, the pledge itself annoys me... Requiring children to pledge their loyalty to their nation is something done in underdeveloped dictatorships, not the economic and self-proclaimed moral superpower that is The United States ofAmerica. At least, that's how i see it. There are some who would call the words "Under God" trivial. These also happen to be the same people who use God in normal conversation, who hear his name repeated every Sunday. For us who don't, however, those same two words become much more significant. Asking an Atheist to pledge his allegience to a "Nation Under God" is like asking a Christian to bow down before a statue of Sri Garuda. To a Hindu, it's something entirely unnoticable, a part of the routine; but to a Christian, it would be considered idol worship.  

[[Satan]]

Din_of_Serenity

I just like, skip "undet god". I usually get looks when people realize what I'm doing.

Wow, really? No one notices when I do it. (at least...my classmates don't)  

[Phaeton]

I usually never said the pledge in school anyway. It'd piss off the teachers but I have the right not to say the pledge if I want to. They can't stop me.  

[[Lucas]]

I agree that it should be removed on the grounds that this country is about freedom, and in this case we're talking about religious freedom.

Although I just don't say those two words when I'm saying it.  

[[Satan]]

Phaeton

I usually never said the pledge in school anyway. It'd piss off the teachers but I have the right not to say the pledge if I want to. They can't stop me.

My teachers (or at least, my homeroom teachers) always make me stand. rolleyes  

[Superior Jazz]

Up here in Canada, we have a similar pledge, but it is to the Queen, and all her successors thereof, or some odd crap like that. I don't think it mentions any partucular deity... however. This is still relevant.
In our national anthem, there is mention of said religios personage. As follows.

Quote:

O Canada
Blah, blah...
True patriot love,
In all thy son's command!

Now, I may be wrong in this assumption, but I think that refers to the "son of God", and not any mortal male child.

Quote:

God keep our land
Glorious and free
Blah, blah.

Well, now. This is exactly the point [Satan] made about your American Pledge of Allegience. Hmm. And thus the problem. I don't sing my national anthem very often, and that is exactly the reason. Whenever I do, I sing certain parts in French, so there is no real reference to something that I truly feel doesn't exist.