Do You Think That Obama is Legally President?

[dealing with it 123]

Personally, I don't think that Obama was Born in Hawaii, which means that he isn't suposed to be president. The reason I think this, is because Hawaii changes the border on birth certificates every year. Obama's birth certificate had a border that didn't match the border on any other birth certificates that year. So this suggests that his birth certificate was forged.

As for if this is true or not I'm not sure, if anyone knows if it is or isn't please do post an opinion, or fact on the matter. Thanks!  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

Do You Think That Obama is Legally President?

5:13 p.m. EST, Nov 17 '08
President Full results »
365
53%
66,882,230
173
46%
58,343,671

In a word, yes.

Quote:

I don't think that Obama was Born in Hawaii

Do you have proof, not skepticism about the veracity of his Hawaiian birth, but actual proof that he was born in another country? If you do not, Hawaii is very much claiming that he was born there.

It doesn't matter anyways. Obama's mother is a US citizen (Ann Dunham was born in Kansas), and the law stipulates that if you are born to a US citizen who maintains their US citizenship, you are a citizen of the US. McCain, for example, was born in the Panama Canal Zone, and George Romney, who once pondered a presidential bid, was born in Mexico. Neither of their candidacies were seriously contested on the citizenship grounds even though both were born outside US soil. So, legally, even if you had proof-positive that Obama was born outside the US, he's still legally a citizen by birthright and still legally can occupy the presidency.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

What's the point of that law anyways... what if someone lived here since they were one and wanted to be president... you don't choose where you're born (scientifically that is--- some metaphysical theorists make crazy ideas)  

[dealing with it 123]

Okay, no I don't have proof, it's purely speculation, I wasn't saying that he was, I was asking people there opinions on it, and I was stating mine. And I also know that in the polls he won by a landslide and I'm not questioning that.

Now as for the law, I think it is stupid my self, I think that there are a lot of people that weren't born in the U.S.A. but would be a good president. Or if they are a citizen. Lord Bitememan did point out though that Obama is a U.S citizen with evidence, so know I believe that he is legally the president.  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

What's the point of that law anyways

It comes from the Constitution, the following passage:

Quote:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President

There's actually scant record of why this phrase was included in the Constitution. The only existing hints that seem to suggest why come from a letter from John Jay to George Washington, the gist of which was that they wanted to discourage people with foreign loyalties from holding high office, and placed the greatest requirement on the man who would be vested with the powers of commander in chief of the entire US military. Other than that, most of the records with regard to the wording of that provision were submitted without comment. It may indicate far older roots to the thinking in attitudes that have since changed. All the way back to ancient Rome and Athens, government offices always had a very strong birthright citizenship requirement. Knowledge of the governance of republics, both ancient and contemporary, were not lost in the slightest, and were indeed discussed by such writers as Machiavelli during the Renaissance. Furthermore, there's also a strong possibility that the attitude that citizens and other certain in-groups should be the primary contenders for public office is something intrinsic, and didn't pass with Rome's fall. So, it may be that the idea was so basically and fundamentally agreed upon that it was just taken for granted and not really discussed very much.

In any respect it's probably a bit outdated. Obviously some sort of standard of longevity and assimilation into our culture is needed to ensure that our president would act in our best interest and not that of a foreign interest. However, I highly doubt that a president Schwarzenegger would declare America a protectorate of Austria, nor would a president Granholm turn us into a subsidiary of Canada. So, the law could do with some much less restrictive standards and open the door to some of our naturalized citizens, particularly those who have been here for a long time.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Lord Bitememan

However, I highly doubt that a president Schwarzenegger would declare America a protectorate of Austria, nor would a president Granholm turn us into a subsidiary of Canada..

Even so, isn't that the Senates' job to initiate such a protocol?

Quote:

In any respect it's probably a bit outdated..

Indeed. We're a heterogeneous nation... it's only natural that naturalized (is that the term for aliens becoming citizens o0) citizens get the right to office... although they should have a higher residency status-- then again, it's not like America would vote in a foreign terrorist as president... I'd hope.  

[blondforeva]

Obama was not born in Hawaii, he was born in Kenya.  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

Obama was not born in Hawaii, he was born in Kenya.

Prove it.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

LB

blondforeva

Obama was not born in Hawaii, he was born in Kenya.

Prove it.

Nicely said.  

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

O'Reilly showed recently on his show the birth certificate for BarakObama from Hawaii. Also, several physicians who were present for his birth spoke up but the Right Wing Media refuses to acknowledge it, as does Lou Dobbs, who needs to shut up before he makes people look at him as the 21st Century version of Starr...  

[Pumona]

Vasilius Konstantinos

O'Reilly showed recently on his show the birth certificate for BarakObama from Hawaii. Also, several physicians who were present for his birth spoke up but the Right Wing Media refuses to acknowledge it, as does Lou Dobbs, who needs to shut up before he makes people look at him as the 21st Century version of Starr...

Besides Bill O'Reilly, other ones on Fox News have also said that he was born in Hawaii. I do believe it would have been easier to shut some people up if he would have showed it to more people instead of hiring lawyers to hide it. It has to be true or it would really hurt America by having a huge coverup.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Pumona

Vasilius Konstantinos

O'Reilly showed recently on his show the birth certificate for BarakObama from Hawaii. Also, several physicians who were present for his birth spoke up but the Right Wing Media refuses to acknowledge it, as does Lou Dobbs, who needs to shut up before he makes people look at him as the 21st Century version of Starr...

Besides Bill O'Reilly, other ones on Fox News have also said that he was born in Hawaii. I do believe it would have been easier to shut some people up if he would have showed it to more people instead of hiring lawyers to hide it. It has to be true or it would really hurt America by having a huge coverup.

He shouldn't have to conceal his Birth Certificate to the public to begin with... even our president(ial candidates) deserves some privacy... it all seems like hodge-podge attempts for people to get their way... even so I'm sure the government would have known if was not a US Citizen.  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

He shouldn't have to conceal his Birth Certificate to the public to begin with... even our president(ial candidates) deserves some privacy

Except that the president has to be able to prove the legal qualifications he possesses to be president. He has to prove that he is of age, and is a birthright citizen. So, he might not have to disclose his birth certificate per se, but he does have to disclose his proof of these qualifications as a matter of public record. And, Obama has done this.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

He shouldn't have to conceal his Birth Certificate to the public to begin with... even our president(ial candidates) deserves some privacy

Except that the president has to be able to prove the legal qualifications he possesses to be president. He has to prove that he is of age, and is a birthright citizen. So, he might not have to disclose his birth certificate per se, but he does have to disclose his proof of these qualifications as a matter of public record. And, Obama has done this.

I understand this.  

[Latopazora]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

What's the point of that law anyways

It comes from the Constitution, the following passage:

Quote:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President

There's actually scant record of why this phrase was included in the Constitution. The only existing hints that seem to suggest why come from a letter from John Jay to George Washington, the gist of which was that they wanted to discourage people with foreign loyalties from holding high office, and placed the greatest requirement on the man who would be vested with the powers of commander in chief of the entire US military. Other than that, most of the records with regard to the wording of that provision were submitted without comment. It may indicate far older roots to the thinking in attitudes that have since changed. All the way back to ancient Rome and Athens, government offices always had a very strong birthright citizenship requirement. Knowledge of the governance of republics, both ancient and contemporary, were not lost in the slightest, and were indeed discussed by such writers as Machiavelli during the Renaissance. Furthermore, there's also a strong possibility that the attitude that citizens and other certain in-groups should be the primary contenders for public office is something intrinsic, and didn't pass with Rome's fall. So, it may be that the idea was so basically and fundamentally agreed upon that it was just taken for granted and not really discussed very much.

In any respect it's probably a bit outdated. Obviously some sort of standard of longevity and assimilation into our culture is needed to ensure that our president would act in our best interest and not that of a foreign interest. However, I highly doubt that a president Schwarzenegger would declare America a protectorate of Austria, nor would a president Granholm turn us into a subsidiary of Canada. So, the law could do with some much less restrictive standards and open the door to some of our naturalized citizens, particularly those who have been here for a long time.

being a constitutionalist, I think it should remain as is. The Presidential office is the highest office, so only someone who is national born should be allowed to hold that office. Its not like we're keeping people who are foreign-born from holding powerful positions. Someone whose from S. America, Africa, Europe... etc. would be better off bring their experiences to the House of Rep. and the Senate. The President only has the power to execute and assign people to the Supreme Court and Cabinet.
Though, as much as I would love to find a reason to kick Obama out of office before his first term expires, it would just be better to make his a lame duck by voting in fiscal conservatives, be them dem. or repub., and then vote Obama out 2012.