Libertarianism

[Edible Jennann]

I've been doing a little reading on the Libertarian Party and I like most of what I've seen so far - smaller govt, lower taxes, more freedom. I'd be interested to hear what my fellow rational atheists opinions and/or thoughts are on the Party.  

[Lethkhar]

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.  

[LimeIzMyFaveColor]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

...

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

I definitely agree =]  

[dl1371]

My opinion on Libertarians:
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! GOD NO!
They don't understand that the whole point of government is to be a benevolent ruling system that people can trust.
And lower taxes... Look at California, they cut taxes and they're in a budget crisis

Oh yes, I am a commun-
er...
Socialist(Communist has such a negative connotation), so I believe that markets should be extremely restricted, if they have to exist in the first place  

[[-Erik-]]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.

Libertarians are against that? I thought it was what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I don't live in the USA.  

[Im A Little Pea]

Absolute freedom is great when you're rich and healthy. And you'd better be both rich and healthy, too. But the state has to help out its own citizens, and things as elementary as education and health shouldn't depend on your ability to pay for them.
You may not harm anyone directly, but by choosing not to help, you're doing harm.  

[Lethkhar]

[-Erik-]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.

Libertarians are against that? I thought it was what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I don't live in the USA.

No, true Libertarians believe that the only function of government is to protect your right to the pursuit of property, along with other basic freedoms. They don't give a s**t about equal opportunity.  

[dl1371]

Lethkhar

[-Erik-]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.

Libertarians are against that? I thought it was what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I don't live in the USA.

No, true Libertarians believe that the only function of government is to protect your right to the pursuit of property, along with other basic freedoms. They don't give a s**t about equal opportunity.

You're really not going to get equal opportunity in any system unless you take away children from their families at birth.  

[Lethkhar]

dl1371

Lethkhar

[-Erik-]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.

Libertarians are against that? I thought it was what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I don't live in the USA.

No, true Libertarians believe that the only function of government is to protect your right to the pursuit of property, along with other basic freedoms. They don't give a s**t about equal opportunity.

You're really not going to get equal opportunity in any system unless you take away children from their families at birth.

Let me rephrase that: A minimum level of opportunity.  

[Le Pere Duchesne]

dl1371

Lethkhar

[-Erik-]

Lethkhar

Socially-Yes, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Economically-No, a complete lack of regulation in a market leads to corporatism and a lack of responsibility by investors, as was seen in the latest market's crash.

I also believe that the government should be responsible for providing equal opportunity for everyone, something which Libertarians are against.

And honestly, the "Libertarian" Party here in the US isn't strictly libertarian. Bob Barr, the guy who ran for president in their party in 2008, is really just a neoconservative. If they were actually libertarian, you'd see Ron Paul running on their platform.

Libertarians are against that? I thought it was what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I don't live in the USA.

No, true Libertarians believe that the only function of government is to protect your right to the pursuit of property, along with other basic freedoms. They don't give a s**t about equal opportunity.

You're really not going to get equal opportunity in any system unless you take away children from their families at birth.

Socialised childcare would do well, but at the same time if you want to make equal opportunity meaningfull, everyone has to recieve equal levels of education, all the way through university, you also have to provide employment that isn't rendered unstable by the vagaries of the market, so that able people aren't thrown out of a job due to their emplyer going bust, so that implies a collectivised economy. To allow people to have free opportunity without having to worry about or be stiffled by a crippling bureaucracy, it needs to be done away, and society needs to be organised on a thoroughly collective and democratic basis.

In a word, to have true equal opportunity you need a communist society. Something libertarians fight against.  

[PetreyDish]

People who whine that our government isn't small enough should look at the state of Mexico's Drug Wars.
That's what happens when you have a small government that doesn't interfere with States Rights.

Small government works with small countries, but it won't work with a country as large as us.  

[Artto]

Too much freedom is usually not a good idea. To put it quite frankly, it's a bad idea, because people are stupid.

The libertarians keep saying "Hey, you know better what to do with your money than the government!"
But you don't. Because you're stupid and greedy. Or at least the people as a whole are.  

[PetreyDish]

Artto

Too much freedom is usually not a good idea. To put it quite frankly, it's a bad idea, because people are stupid.

The libertarians keep saying "Hey, you know better what to do with your money than the government!"
But you don't. Because you're stupid and greedy. Or at least the people as a whole are.

Pretty much.  

[LimeIzMyFaveColor]

I do agree with people having equal opportunity, but I do not agree that people should have equal levels of education. I like my courses challenging. Regular classes make me tired and bored. AP and Honor classes are the way to go on my path.  

[Le Pere Duchesne]

LimeIzMyFaveColor

I do agree with people having equal opportunity, but I do not agree that people should have equal levels of education. I like my courses challenging. Regular classes make me tired and bored. AP and Honor classes are the way to go on my path.

And if everyone had the opportunity to be in those classes?
To have equal opportunity, everyone needs equal education. If you don't want to decend into neo-darwinist nonsense, you have to recognise the absurdity between children being responsible for their education--which decides the rest of their lives--and children being declared incapable of holding responsibility for anything else.