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Opinion of Yami no Malik? |
Love |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
Like |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
Neutral |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
Dislike |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
Hate |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
Mixed Feelings |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 8 |
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:49 pm
This particular thread is about Yami no Malik/Yami Marik, the alternate personality of Malik Ishtar. The original Malik Ishtar is discussed in another thread.
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:02 pm
I will post my opinions first in a form format, so you can either choose to copy and use the format, or make up your own.
Basic Opinion/What You Answered in the Poll: Love. Why You Hold That Opinion: [SPOILER WARNING] Oh, Yami no Malik is just so... awesome... like I'm generally not a big fan of villains, but his type of villainy, where he's just completely messed and crazy, that's an exception, and I love it. I mean, there really isn't much to the guy. He doesn't have any master plans or grudges or reasonings for his evil actions (unless you count Malik Ishtar's own trauma), but just wants people to be in pain and darkness. He was created loving hate and enjoying pain; he didn't develop these feelings on his own. Malik's creating him just tacked them on as part of him. So I guess it's Yami no Malik's simplicity that makes him fascinating to me. I mean... how much more 'pure evil' can you get than just instinctively trying to bring everyone pain and suffering? All you want is the darkness, and you have the power to bring it to others. Honestly, I thought Malik Ishtar was interesting as a villain, and I was curious to see more of his master plan and all of that, and was quite disappointed when he was suddenly overthrown by his dark half... but damn did I end up loving that dark half a helluva lot more as a villain than Malik. Yes, it seemed like a simpler means for Takahashi Sensei to wrap up his Battle City plot, but you know what? I'm not gonna complain, because it gave me Yami no Malik. So yeah, there isn't really any depth to Yami no Malik, because he himself is Malik's depth. You can't get any deeper once you're already in the deepest part. And there's really no depth to my reasonings for loving the guy either. He's crazy, he's sick, he likes to bring people pain, he does an awesome tongue and eye thing, and he just seems like a villain in the purest sense of the word. You won't find any excuses for his behavior, only the desire to be evil. Only qualm I have with the guy is how he tried to bargain with the good characters at the end to spare himself. That just seemed out of character to me like... really? He turned into that much of a pansy? That was pretty pathetic. I really would've just expected him to use his last breath to act evil and confident still, just so he could leave that last bit of uncertainty and fear with the good characters as he left the world. At least he would have a bit more of a legacy. Favorite Characters to Pair With: Jounouchi Katsuya, Rishid, Kujaku Mai, Yami no Bakura, Malik Ishtar. Rating of Favoriteness: Tenth favorite.
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:29 pm
On his own, I actually don't find him that interesting. Because there isn't really that much to the guy, he's just permanantly an angry kid who can never mature. He's static. It's fun watching him wreak havoc, and he provides some interesting insight into Malik's character, but I don't find much to glom onto that's just him.
I'm not sure actually. Whenever I'm trying something new, I always make a beeline for the villains, they're usually the most interesting thing for me. If you'll allow me to blather for a moment, I'm sick of this thing in fandom, and in some published works where you have to make excuses - they're evil because they were never cuddled as a child, which makes everything they do okay. It's refreshing that you don't get that with YnMalik, he just causes pain because it's all he can do, and he likes it, albeit on a coppish-outish level, because the angst belongs to the actual personality. Still, if I don't like that, why would I care for villains? So I can say on a superficial level, he sates my appetite, but on a deeper level, I can't really find anything as it all reflects on Malik, and YnMalik is just an aspect of him. Ergo, not much to explore.
None of this means I don't like him. As a fan of villains, I'm used to them being really pantomime, which I'd say YnMalik is, and that's okay because it's fun, but like I said, this doesn't offer a great deal to glom to.
I'm definitely not sorry he showed up. I really love the guy. It might even be said that his battle against the host personality is what got me interested in the first place, but by himself, Ionno, I just don't think there's really enough there. But I find him a lot of fun, which, given the nature of YGO, (it's not astounding literature-level, lets be honest, it's just a load of bloody fun) is all I can really ask for. So I'm happy with the character. And I like him. But I don't have much to say about him, because all the insight he gives me is that into Malik's character, not his own. To the extent that an aspect of someone's personality can even have its own personality.
For what it's worth, the concept of an angry little boy who can never go beyond that was done well.
I do agree that his bargaining at the end seemed OOC. Manifestations of anger are cool-headed enough to know on which side their bread is buttered?
[Forgiveness plz if this post makes no sense, drunk-posting, lolz]
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:45 pm
Basic Opinion/What You Answered in the Poll: Like
Rating of Favoriteness: *sigh*
*grumbles*but I'm so lazy*more grumbles*
*heads to list thread*...*counts*...Fourteen razz
Why You Hold That Opinion: I have a hard time separating Malik out from Yami no Malik, weirdly enough, I don't think the reverse is true. Because, like Kits said, he's a sociopath. For that reason I like him. I tend to often like sociopaths (don't judge me!!), the ability to actually feel nothing, to function purely on a rational/mental/cognitive level - no emotion whatsoever - fascinates me. I can't say I'd want that, because the case seems to always be without emotion you can't have conscience, and thus they end up being purely selfish and often quite cruel. I guess in theory a sociopath would not care about being a sociopath, but not being one, that seems lonely and miserable indeed.
However, I can't love Yami no Malik, because as also pointed out, there's no depth to him, no miscellaneous dimension to cling onto, to be fascinated by. He just is. I can appreciate just is, but I can't love it. I need more, I'm all about the depth. I guess while the lack of emotion attracts me, it also repels me, because it gives me nothing to build on. I need complexity, and Yami no Malik is by far one of the simplest characters in the series. I can like him, find his actions fascinating and his dialogue entertaining, but it will never go further than that.
I think like Morgey said, villains are rather pantomime - Yami no Malik more so than most. It's why in general I tend to cling to antiheroes. Not particularly evil or cruel, but a contrast to the main protagonist. Someone with their own agenda, who nonetheless often - unwillingly or with much complaint - play a large role in helping the cause (whatever the cause may be). All the makings of the antagonist, yet full of depth, personality. It gives a small taste of "bad guy" without falling into the trap most villains have of becoming monotonous. Rebel with a cause. I can enjoy the mindless chaos for the sake of chaos, but if you really want to get my heart racing you have to give me a point.
Favorite Characters to Pair With: Yami no Bakura. That is probably it. There'd be a power play element that would be fascinating there, but with anyone else it's just purely rape - or even at best, void of any personal interplay. I'd be bored. Now l'd still take good fanart of him and pretty much any character I like, but as far as actual intrigue in a pairing goes, Yami no Malik doesn't lend himself to interest. I mean watch depictions of sociopaths in relationships, it's not pretty. And it's not even fascinating in that element, it's just pathetic. Yami no Malik is for the most part better left solo, it'd be too much bad drama otherwise.
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:16 pm
@Morgey: Hm, I do agree that a lot of series tend to give too many excuses to villains. Granted, I do think that some 'excuses' are very well-written and help in adding depth to the villain, but it doesn't work for all of them. And that is one of the most refreshing things I find about Yami no Malik, is his lack of excuses. But yes, also in agreement, he just doesn't have enough depth to be... you know, a deep character. XD;; He's almost like a character that's just there for pure comic relief, with no development or reasonings for their personality, but instead he's there for pure villainy. Haha, no, YUU*GI*OU is not an amazing work of literature, so I think Yami no Malik fits in quite well. XD Your post made perfect sense. Awesome drunk posting.
@JK: I think what makes Yami no Malik a little different from the 'typical' sociopath though is that he does care about what he does, and he does have emotions to an extent. Nothing deep and complex, of course, but I think he does feel pleasure at feeling/seeing others in pain, and he gets nervous or angry when it comes to duels (when someone is getting the better of him in a duel, or like when Jounouchi made him be the first to lose in the duel to determine the finalist order). At the very leas, he can feel the most basic emotions in response to different circumstances. Luckily, I don't need a lot of depth to love a character. It definitely helps, and a character as shallow as Yami no Malik couldn't really be my favorite, but it isn't always a requirement for me. If I love the way they act in the series and the things they do, I can love the character themself. Haha, I noticed of us three, Morgey goes for villains, JK goes for antiheroes, and I go for good characters. XD ...I like me some bad drama and some rape... >_>;; *is guilty of enjoying Yami no Malik with characters besides Yami no Bakura* XD;;
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:29 pm
@Kits - that's not different for sociopath, pleasure and anger are things sociopaths still feel, or at least, act upon. I don't think he gets nervous because he doesn't care about anything, more angry about the insult and loss of control. I mean he is a personality, not a corporeal being, and he has nothing to fear. He's just pure sociopath. Sociopaths cognitively understand what feelings are, and they can cognitively act upon how things should be or how they want them to be - which Yami no Malik does. However he doesn't particularly give the impression of truly feeling anything. Nor should he, I mean he's sort of an embodiment formed from an inability to deal with emotions. So it would seem sensible that he would be void of inner turmoil.
And again, there is nothing wrong with that, true, I do like him as is, I can't really think of anything I'd change about him. But yea I need depth to love a character, there has to be something there to love. I like and appreciate him, but I can't love him. Love is a deep commitment that I can't just make at a shallow level with a shallow character. I don't love easily, so it takes a lot for me to love a character.
I like bad drama and rape, well I like rape stressed ...but with a character like Yami no Malik it gets too boring for me. It's like, a robot, it's scary for the victim sure, but there is no feeling to it. So yea if the victim is a favorite character of mine I could still probably derive some enjoyment for it, but the enjoyment would be coming from enjoying a love of mine being tortured, not any particular of Yami no Malik's doing. He's not specifically relevant to the scenario and interchangeable, which makes it meaningless for me to list him as a pairing character. To be a pairing there has to be something to pair. Something that makes a unique coupling or duo (trio, etc), for me anyhow.
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:53 pm
Ah, I see. Sociopaths are quite interesting then. o.o Haha, I guess I give my heart easily when it comes to characters. XD Not so much with people. I think that's what I like with Yami no Malik, that he's kind of like a robot or monster or something that can bring pain to the victim, yet he's human. There aren't very many YUU*GI*OU characters who could be interchangeable like that, so that, in essence, makes him not so interchangeable. He's like the only character that you can get that lack of meaning with, while still making it fun torture time! =D
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:16 pm
They are very interesting, but not necessarily people you'd want to acquaint yourself with in real life.
I have one heart, and it does not differentiate, haha. I guess characters become too real to me, not to the point where the effect reality, but to the point I can't just easily separate them into something less than a whole. And thus they are judged severely. Though some of my criteria does vary, as the constraints of the fictional world allows. Like a rapist/murderer can be loved based on other aspects of who they are, though in real life nothing could redeem a murderer...rapist again that's a gray area, I'm gunna need more particulars to judge that.
I guess for me I just don't find Yami Malik very human, so the interchangeable thing can't really come into play for me. I mean the thing that makes sociopaths terrifying is that they lack the human element, and cannot be rehabilitated in any form, not really. I mean he is just lack of depth and fun torture. There is no substance, to have substance you need a soul, and I guess on a theological level I don't want to hit, sociopath could very well be the manifestation of soulless vessel. Just on rational grounds though, they like humanity in form of consciousness. I mean yes he's physically human (except no he actually isn't because he's a personality with no separate body, but we won't get into that) rather than machine, but on the level of conscience he's just monster. He hasn't the capacity for what turns human into humane. A Nazi could still go home and love his wife and kids, they aren't just black and white cruelty. A sociopath, a sociopath is incapable of love. Or hate, or anything that would create connection, and thus, a sociopath while utterly fascinating, is not quite human.
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:55 pm
Oh hell no. XD;; Yeah, I definitely feel like characters are related to differently than real life people. I go for more of character traits that I can love, that make them interesting and enjoyable to me, to choose who I love. It does go on a deeper level sometimes, where I feel personally attached to the character, but that's pretty rare. Jounouchi is an example of that though. :3 And it is that fascinating part that makes me interested in a few Yami no Malik couples, not the human part. ^^
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:35 pm
Was actually talking to my mom today about what the difference was between a sociopath and a psychopath, since they seem to be interchanged a lot. She had brought them up in talking about something general on patients and how they are separate entities (and of course it got me thinking about the necessity of stating both, the plural, the fact that they aren't the same). Anyhow a sociopath understands right and wrong but just does not care due to lack of emotional response, selfishness in a pure form. Whereas a psychopath has a distorted view of reality. So, a sociopath would say kill you, know it was wrong, and not care. A psychopath would kill you, and to logic that only they understand and can only benefit themselves, justify it.
So yea, that was fun, I'm pretty sure from my own further understanding that Malik is still probably a sociopath, however I'm no expert. I have a feeling I'll be unsuccessful in persuading my mom to watch YGO and diagnose him for me ^_~.
See it's the human bits that fascinate me with relationships. The emotions, the feelings, the motivators. Sociopaths aren't complex, it's a no brainer what their aims are in a relationship, how they will manipulate people. For me to be invested in a relationship, both parties have to be at risk of being hurt. Yami no Malik cares about no one besides himself, thus, he can't be hurt. I can't be interested. It's not "relationship/pairing/couple" with Yami no Malik, it's "game." And I really tend to resent games. Generally the only stories/scenarios like that I end up liking, the "player" ends up getting hurt and having revelations and all that jazz. But Yami no Malik can't get hurt, can't feel bad, can't ever feel a desire to atone (and then possibly get shot down, shattering him further).
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:32 pm
Ah yes, I've heard that before. That was pretty much the most in depth thing I already knew on socio/psychopaths. XD;; What the difference was. Quite interesting though, and I do agree that Yami no Malik seems to be a bit more of a sociopath. I've totally gotten my dad to watch a bit of YUU*GI*OU before. cool Generally speaking, in terms of 'relationships,' I agree with you, and prefer for both sides to have a human, emotional side. However, when just speaking in general 'pairings,' where one person is 'paired' with another (not necessarily into a relationship, but just a romantic or sexual scenario), I can enjoy the one-sidedness that Yami no Malik would have. :3 Could never see or enjoy him in an actual relationship, but sexualizing his already sociopathic and villainous role? Most definitely.
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:57 pm
I can get my dad to watch a lot of things, it's my mom who can be harder, especially in the area of cartoon/anime.
Well yea, like I said if it's a character I like I could probably get into any noncon scene or pretty art, it's just there's no point to me naming specific pairings. There isn't anything unique to a pairing about it was just what I was saying. I think Yami no Bakura would be one of the few where there could be an individualistic element to how the two would react to one another. Probably Malik as well considering ya know, haha. However other than "pretty," there's nothing to do it for me. I love neither Yami no Malik nor Malik so it'd be hard to get much out of that other than it looks good.
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:40 am
Basic Opinion/What You Answered in the Poll: I haven't voted yet... Don't like him too much, though Why You Hold That Opinion: [SPOILER WARNING] Bascially: He scares me. Quite a bit. With his tongue. It can be very long and vein-y. Same with his face.
But seriously... While I do love the destroying for destroying's sake, and can appreciate that in all it's glory and what not, he doesn't have much depth by himself. He's just an alter of Malik's magical MPD/DID. And he's trying to kill everyone. He also started begging before he died, but that's a different story. (It was quite pathetic).
He doesn't seem to have any logic behind what he does. Which is cool, but only when it's done in a certain way for me... Not sure what that way is. But.
So no, I don't like him very much. Not sure if I have a totally solid reason why, though. Favorite Characters to Pair With: Yami no Bakura. That's it. Rating of Favoriteness: Definitely not my least fave. Sometimes he gets up there on the list, but it's very rare...
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:18 pm
Hahaha!! Ok Nightfure I'm with you on that. I am so NOT into veins and he can be vein city when he spazzes, and yea tongues in anime have never done it for me. There is just something awkward about them.
Yea I agree, chaos for the sake of chaos is fine, but it's not exactly exciting.
Woot! We are the same on pairing, that is AWESOME! Hahaha
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JuokasKurvas Vice Captain
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:42 pm
@JK: Same with my parents. I got my dad to watch all of Avatar: The Last Airbender with me, and he even wants to see the movie. My mom, the most I ever got her to do was play a round of Mario Party. XD;; I think my love for Yami no Malik and his craziness does make it more individualistic for me. :3
@Nightfure: *guilty of loving the veins... and the tongue* That seems to be pretty much the consensus in this thread thus far, that Yami no Malik doesn't have much depth, and that begging before he died was pathetic. But if you like the lack of depth or not, that's where people differ in opinion, and it's interesting how different that can be. XD
@JK: ...I do have a deep love for Yami no Malik's tongue... mostly because as someone who mainly draws people, anime tongues have always bothered me, how tiny and weird they are. Like someone will stick their tongue out, and it will just be this little pink dot that you think is their lips at first or something. It's just weird like... it doesn't even look like a tongue. But Yami no Malik... now that's a tongue! It's big, and can move like a flexible tongue can, and he just does ultra fun things with it! I appreciate how realistic (and creepy!) his tongue is compared to most anime tongues.
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