So where did it all come from?

[[Lucas]]

This is an argument I hear a lot for the theist side of things: Who created the universe in the first place? I mean, you can believe the big bang theory and all, and go the scientific route as such, but they say what made the big bang happen in the first place? So what did? They argue that some form of God did. Explain the formation of the universe for me, and exactly what sparked it.  

[Redem]

Simply put...We have no idea.

It really doesn't matter what we say though, thise is simply a reversion of causes.

Asking "What caused that?" until you are worn down from exhaustion.

"What caused the big bang?"
"I don't know"
"Therefor God exists"


A pretty weak argument when put like that.  

[Satan is my Bitch]

I think that right there is the reason god's were created. People couldn't explain something in nature and being the stubborn bastards of a race we are our early ancestors decided that to make them sound smart and not do work they made up the god figure that created all and everyhting that happens is because he/ she willed it so it must be so.


I think the universe started out as a cloud of "dark matter" that for whatever reason started to compress in a certain area until it got so compressed that it exploded, fusing some of this "dark matter" together to form the elements of today. And this fusion and compression and release of all this energy formed the planets, suns, galexies, nebulas, etc. etc. that we have today. (note this process must of taken several billion years to do.)  

[[Lucas]]

Satan is my b***h

I think that right there is the reason god's were created. People couldn't explain something in nature and being the stubborn bastards of a race we are our early ancestors decided that to make them sound smart and not do work they made up the god figure that created all and everyhting that happens is because he/ she willed it so it must be so.


I think the universe started out as a cloud of "dark matter" that for whatever reason started to compress in a certain area until it got so compressed that it exploded, fusing some of this "dark matter" together to form the elements of today. And this fusion and compression and release of all this energy formed the planets, suns, galexies, nebulas, etc. etc. that we have today. (note this process must of taken several billion years to do.)

But what is this reason? That's what I was asking.  

[Latke]

There is a reason out there somewhere, but I have no idea what it is. I don't know much about space, the universe, or the big bang theory, and I'm not really one to speculate. I prefer to take an apathetic approach. Who cares why the universe was formed? Even if I knew the answer, I would still eat oatmeal and a banana for breakfast every morning, go to school every day, watch terrible TV. It wouldn't make much of a difference in my every day life. It might be a little comforting to know -- more comforting than realizing there is an abyss of questions I can't answer about the world I live in -- but. It doesn't look like the answer's going to come to us any time soon, and I can deal with that.  

[[Lucas]]

I thought that maybe by posting this in an atheist guild I would get some good answers. It seemed reasonable to believe that because you are atheist (still agnostic myself), you are confident that God does not exist, and would therefor have some explanation for the beginning of all things that logically explains everything without the use of God.

Alas, I am disappointed. I see no responses other than "We don't know" and "It doesn't matter." But it does matter, does it not? I mean, if a God did indeed act as the catalyst to the formation of all things, then would we not want to worship said God? Of course we would. And if a God did not, then we would all be atheist, as you are. So why can't you explain to me this?

New question: Why are you so confident that God does not exist?  

[subtleessence134]

This is where you cease to understand the difference between Atheists and Theists. If you want a detailed explanation of how the world came to be, ask a Theist, as they would be more than happy to tell you the creation myth of whatever religion they belong to. Atheists, on the other hand, are not an organised religion in and of themselves. The beliefs of each indiviual Atheist can be radically different from person to person; and, thus, Atheists lack a creation myth. PM every Atheist in this guild with your question and I'm sure you'll get a different answer from each and every one of us. Some may not even give you an answer, simply because, as Atheists, we don't have to. An Atheist does not have to prove that God does not exist; it is the job of the Theists to prove that he does.

Now I don't know how the Universe was created. And to venture a guess with my own limited knowledge would only be foolish. But I don't need to know how the Universe was created because the fact of the matter is the Universe is here now. That is all that matters.

[Lucas]

it seemed reasonable to believe that because you are atheist (still agnostic myself), you are confident that God does not exist, and would therefor have some explanation for the beginning of all things that logically explains everything without the use of God.

No, that does not seem reasonable. Theists have standardized creation myths. Theists have a "logical explanation for the beginning of all things". Atheists don't have, and don't need to have, either of them. To put it in the simplest terms I can think of 20 minutes before midnight on a school night, Atheism is a disbelief in the existence of God; not a belief in the nonexistence of God.

[Lucas]

I see no responses other than "We don't know"

That's because we don't need to give any other type of response

I could (and probably should, for entirety's sake) go on, but I'm tired and want to go to sleep. I may finish this later. whee  

[Phaeton]

On the first question plenty of evidence suggests that the Big Bang actually happened, but it will allways be a theory because nobody can truly prove it. Nobody can go back in time 12 Billion years to see it happen, and no way in hell would documents exist from that far back. Now 12 Billion years is a LONG ******** time! "LONG ******** time" no matter how much I jazz it up, emphasize it, or bold face it will never be able to grasp the concept of 12 Billion years. It's just too much for the human brain.

Why am I so confident that god doesn't exist? It's simple. God was created like so many other beings to explain the unknown. Before I go on about that, Here's the 5 Anthropological functions of Religion

1. It reduces Human Anxiety by explaining the unknown. For the most feeble minded people, a Simple "Because God made it" will suffice. More intelectual people will want to find greater reasoning.

2. It provides comfort by assuring Supernatural aid in major crises. People want to think that they are not alone and that they will be safe. It's actually something that brews from a natural instinct for survival.

3. It sets Right and Wrong and a standard for Acceptable Behavior. *Cough10commandmentsCough*

4. It removes the "Burden" decision making from the Individual. (Ack this is a NO-NO People need to think for themselves.) Allthough it also applies to Tarot, and other forms of Fortune telling.

5. It maintains Social solidarity and brings the people together. Sounds alot like Laws and charters doesn't it?

With all that out of the way it seems like this "God" that Christians worship is simply their ideal all Superego Superhero. The magical man who can do no wrong and will promise them salvation in return for their praise. (Allthough even Superman would try to save his enemies...) It seems like alot of devout Religious folk never learn to walk on their own 2 legs. All of these ideas about God aren't any different from people believing in Santa Clause(A Jolly generous fatman who slinks down your Chimney? Not bloody likely.) or the Tooth Fairy (The ********? Who wants your old removed rotten teeth?). The only difference is not too many people Dress up as God for Haloween or Christmas out of fear.  

[Dathu]

Ya know, a lot of people who study physics these days are begining to adopt the idea that everything that exists didn't come from anywhere. Or more simply put "everything that does exists, has, and will forever."

This is based on the fact that energy (all matter) can not be created or destroyed. Even the biggest and hottest explosions in the universe (ones as big as our galaxy and a billion times hotter than our sun) can't destroy matter, only change its shape. Because of that, and a lot of new thinking on the concept of time, the notion of "no begining" is looking more agreeable.

I know it's hard, as a human who is born and dies, to imagine eternity running in both dirrections. We are born, so we think the universe has a birth. Yet even though we are born, we are not created from nothing. All the material in our bodies was once something else. Hense the saying "We were all once a part of a star." but if you adopt the idea that time is not a straight line but something that can loop, then the idea of ever existing matter doesn't seem so impossible.

If you feel up to it, I recomend reading "The Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking. He'll explain the concept of time. But for the "ever matter" articles, your gunna have to do your own research. It's out there though, and I think it very likely.

So in short, no created this. It has and will always exist. AND I BET THEY WON'T BUY IT, BUT THEY CAN BUY THE IDEA OF GOD HAVING AND ALWAYS EXISTING. YOU BELIEVE THAT. GOD CAN DO IT, BUT NOT MATTER. AIN'T THAT A b***h!  

[iviary]

[Lucas]

I mean, if a God did indeed act as the catalyst to the formation of all things, then would we not want to worship said God? Of course we would. And if a God did not, then we would all be atheist, as you are.

Let's pretend for a minute that I believe in the existence of a God. Just because He/She/It created the earth, universe, stars, etc., why does that mean we ought to worship him? It might have been an accident. Why must he be all-knowing, all-powerful, or all-loving? What proof do we have that he even influences our daily lives? How do we know he's watching, and not off making new playthings somewhere else in the realm of gods? I am glad that whatever gave me life did, but it is not a matter of worship for me.

Now then, I do not believe in a God, at least not in any traditional sense.

I think perhaps we are part of some much larger organism beyond our comprehension; way beyond anything we can even begin to grasp. And that organism may well be part of something much much further beyond our comprehension, and possibly that one is part of infinitely more infinitely large organisms. The birth (The Big Bang, if you will) of the creature we are part of was ultimately our birth too, and its death will probably come long after the end of earth in any form we know it. However, whether we are part of something bigger or not, it does not really matter. Just as we do not generally care about, nor actively consciously influence the infinitesimal organisms within our own bodies, I imagine the same would be true for anything we are part of. The creatures that make up our body cannot comprehend that they make up something as comparatively vast as a human being, so we cannot grasp what function we play in something larger.

It is nearly as much grasping at hairs as many religious explanations for our creation, except that it does not ask for worship nor adoration. It is not based on tradition and comfort in sharing the belief with many others. I am willing to change what I think, unlike those that follow traditions that have existed for hundreds or thousands of years. It is simply an explanation for something to which I do not know the answer; something that makes sense to me. It is not based on any real scientific theories that I know of, but rather, contemplation, and I accept that it is most likely wrong. It is an idea, not a belief. If new evidence comes to my attention, I will take that into consideration.  

[Pistil]

We can only ever guess as to how the universe was formed. It can never be known without a doubt.

I do not believe in the big bang theory.
I do not believe in god(s)(esses)

I see questions on these two things like a kid asking the 'why?/how?' chain of questions. To every answer, there's always at least one more question. No matter which way you go, there is no definite answer.  

[Grand Moff Locket]

The general Idea, I believe, is that the big bang was started by an INCREDIBLE JESUS CRAZY amount of energy. So much taht it turned into matter, and began expanding at an incredible rate. Thus the big bang happened. How'd the energy get there? No ******** clue, but, by god, we're working on it.  

[Satan is my Bitch]

[Lucas]

Satan is my b***h

I think that right there is the reason god's were created. People couldn't explain something in nature and being the stubborn bastards of a race we are our early ancestors decided that to make them sound smart and not do work they made up the god figure that created all and everyhting that happens is because he/ she willed it so it must be so.


I think the universe started out as a cloud of "dark matter" that for whatever reason started to compress in a certain area until it got so compressed that it exploded, fusing some of this "dark matter" together to form the elements of today. And this fusion and compression and release of all this energy formed the planets, suns, galexies, nebulas, etc. etc. that we have today. (note this process must of taken several billion years to do.)

But what is this reason? That's what I was asking.

Unfortunatly no one will ever be able to answer that with real evidence. My person belief is that there were powerful areas of strong magnetism that started pulling in this "dark matter" and over millions of years the amount of the matter in that single area became too great and released all of the magnetic energy, matter, everything millions of light years outward. thus creating the universe. And this also goes with the theory that the universe is still expanding and will eventually shrink back in. I think the universe is still expanding because of that initial blast. But once the effects of the big bang are over that same strong magnetic feild that brought all the matter together in the first place will slowly start pulling it all back. Thus repeating the cycle. (of course this is just a personal thought there is no way of proving my theory...)  

[Napoleon_Danneskjold]

This is a self-inflating argument.... once you establish that you need something to "create" a universe, you then must logically follow that something needs to make that, and then something needs to make that..... so "who is God's creator?" is the beginning of an infinite exercise in pointlessness.... especially when we know about conservation of mass, which means that ultimately the universe was not created anyway  

[EmmaRaikou]

New question: Why are you so confident that God does not exist?

For me, I just don't see any true evidence for Him/Her/Whatever. Sure, we don't know where the universe comes from, but if God supposedly made the universe, where did He come from?

When you break it down, the two are quite similar. How do you get something out of nothing?

*shrugs* Who the hell knows? I don't believe in God because I don't. Lame? Perhaps. But I just could never wrap my mind around the concept of there being a God--it didn't make sense to me.

I hope that was clear. sweatdrop