Sucide (my two cents)

[TheElvanGod]

My Facebook Wall

i've had this on my chest for awhile, and i'm gonna get it off before it bottles up:
I have no sympathy for any of those kids that killed themselves. As i catholic, i believe that if you kill and don't confess it, you will go to Hell. Comitting sucide is a form of murder, and its one you can't make up for. I hate to say... this, but the cold hard truth is they are not in Heaven right now

More indepth:
4 kids 2 grades higher then me commited sucide this week. Almost everyone i know has sympathy for them, but i don't think its deserved.
i'm not happy that they did this, i'm wishing it could've been avoided, but it wasn't. The truth hurts, the sooner we realize that the sooner we can move on.  

[Chief Chilly]

I agree with you, they shouldn't have sympathy. Suicide is murder, so that would be like feeling sympathy for a sociopath (imo).

Though it is TECHNICALLY possible to be forgiven for suicide. If you do it, accident or otherwise, so that you don't die instantly and you realize what you did was wrong and ask forgiveness, it's possible to die without this sin. But if it's instant, your dead and this sin will curse you to hell.

Actually, I feel like adding in another scenario for this that is rather common. Consider two teens, your typical, non-Chrisitian, teens. They are dating eachother but dumps the other. The other gets depressed, as is usually the case, and goes suicidal and kills his/herself. Now, I have been threatened with this online (Back when I dated online, a sad existance), and the girl threatened to commit suicide if I didn't take her back. I'd had the perfect comeback to this, "If you think it's worth throwing your life away for someone who doesn't feel the same way about you, then by all means go ahead."

Just my two (three?) cents on the subject.  

[Wishboxx]

While we may not agree with suicide or have sympathy towards the people who took their lives, we need to remember to send our prayers and compassion to their families and friends. They are probably going through a really difficult time right now and I believe that instead of spreading negativity and our dislike for this act, we should be spreading positivity by sending prayers for the family and friends that are left to deal with the aftermath.  

[Shanna66]

i feel sympathy for people who are thinking of suicide since ive been there. i feel pitty and anger for those who commit it. in my mind there is no good reason for th average person to commit suicide. if your in alot of pain or are already dyeing from soemthing then fine, but if you want to kill yourself because your life is sad at that point in time then no

to me suicide is so much worse than murder because you are taking the greatest gift god gave you and throwing it back in his face.

suicide is one of the most selfish things a person could do to the people around them. the people left behind are never the same again  

[Fighting Fefnir]

:: cough ::

Catholicism purports that anyone who commits suicide is clearly not in their right mind and are not accountable for that sin. Or, that's what they say now.

So um, no.

While I don't think suicide is ever an answer (permanent solution to temporary problems and all that), I find it very disrespectful not to have some inkling of compassion for someone who was desperate enough to end their own life. You don't have to agree with their reasons or actions, but some sympathy is warranted.

@Chilly: Not all sociopaths are murderers. As much as Hollywood will tell you otherwise, sociopaths can lead normal, productive lives.

Also, I met my current girlfriend online, so I resent the remark about online dating being a 'sad existence'. I plan to marry this girl when the timing is a bit better.

I would ask you to go and read a college psychology textbook in regards to handling suicidal people. What you did may very well have encouraged her to actually take her life, and your lack of sympathy in a situation like that is absolutely unacceptable. I can understand not taking her back, but even in 'calling her bluff' you might have been a direct factor in her death. You wanna call it murder? You were an accomplice in that case.

And one more thing; obviously only non-Christians and teenagers kill themselves, right? That's rhetorical, don't answer. Your example shows a lack of any sort of understanding as to why a person may consider suicide. Jesus is not the anti-suicide pill, and age doesn't rule out suicide as an option.  

[rosadria]

Relevant question - Does the blood of Christ cover all sins, or does it only cover some?  

[Fighting Fefnir]

Relevant answer: Both. All sins are forgiven through Christ.

Well... that is, all of them except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.  

[rosadria]

Fighting Fefnir

Relevant answer: Both. All sins are forgiven through Christ.

Well... that is, all of them except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Of course.

But that's exactly the point I'm getting at. Either the blood of Christ is effective as the Bible says it is, or it is not. Suicide shouldn't (at least as far as spiritual terms go) be dealt with any different than any other sin. The blood of Christ covers it, or it does not, and we're doomed anyway.  

[Shadows-shine]

Suicide is wrong and it's selfish! It's not a solution to any problems. It compounds them.


I understand that all sins are forgiven by Christ, but one has to repent of those sins and ask for forgiveness in order for the atonement to cover them. If a person commits suicide, they are dead, so how can they ask for forgiveness and repent?  

[rosadria]

Bible says all sins, save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit can be forgiven. If suicide cannot / will not be forgiven, then God is a liar.  

[Shadows-shine]

I understand the Bible says that any sin can be forgiven, save Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. BUT You have to ask for forgiveness first! That's the first step in the repentance process. It goes along with that "Ask and thou shalt receive" verse. If you ask for forgiveness, you will receive it, but if you don't then your sin is left unforgiven.

One has to acknowledge their sin (Psalm 32:5). Matthew 6:12 says "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." Mark 4:12 says "be converted and their sins should be forgiven." Luke 6:37 says "forgive and ye shall be forgiven." See Luke 17:3; Acts 8:22; James 5:15 says "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." Emphasizing that forgiveness must be asked for through a prayer of faith.


The scriptures are full of examples that forgiveness is some thing that has to be asked for. It doesn't automatically happen once we commit a sin. We must acknowledge our transgression, then ask for forgiveness.

So, I ask again, how does a person who commits suicide how can they ask for forgiveness if they are dead? If all chances for repentance stop at the death of the physical body, then how is the person who committed suicide supposed to ask for forgiveness?  

[Fighting Fefnir]

Let me ask you a question, Shadows. Do you think that the mentally handicapped are culpable for crimes? The American legal system doesn't think so, and I should hope you think so as well. That's the kind of situation I was talking about in my previous post. For one to be in a state of mind where they commit suicide, the person isn't properly functioning. They are at that point just as incapable as a severely mentally retarded person or someone with a mental illness of making a sound decision because they are not in a proper state of consciousness to make those decisions.

Yes, sin must be acknowledged, but there are extenuating circumstances. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

EDIT: A friend pointed out a verse that is applicable. Should we judging people as such?

Paul

Romans 10:6-7

6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the deep?

Well, should YOU be judging people as such. I'm not Christian, so it doesn't really apply to me.  

[Shadows-shine]

Fighting Fefnir

Let me ask you a question, Shadows. Do you think that the mentally handicapped are culpable for crimes? The American legal system doesn't think so, and I should hope you think so as well. That's the kind of situation I was talking about in my previous post. For one to be in a state of mind where they commit suicide, the person isn't properly functioning. They are at that point just as incapable as a severely mentally retarded person or someone with a mental illness of making a sound decision because they are not in a proper state of consciousness to make those decisions.

Yes, sin must be acknowledged, but there are extenuating circumstances. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

EDIT: A friend pointed out a verse that is applicable. Should we judging people as such?

Paul

Romans 10:6-7

6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the deep?

Well, should YOU be judging people as such. I'm not Christian, so it doesn't really apply to me.

I'm not judging any one. I am just trying to play devil's advocate more or less. I am trying to get different points of view.  

[Fighting Fefnir]

:: Cough ::

Devil's Advocate argues AGAINST the majority view, not for it. It also carries the implication that you do not actually believe what you're saying, which I can't judge, but is a factor.

But anyway. Care to actually answer what I asked?  

[Shadows-shine]

Hence why I said I am TRYING more or less. I usually don't argue with the majority of the view points in this guild as we don't share the same religious viewpoints on major issues. And some of the points in my posts in this thread, I don't actually believe in. For example, I don't believe in the concept of the chances for repentance stopping at the death of the physical body. I believe learning continues beyond the grave because our spirit is immortal and lives on past the mortal body.


As to your first question, do I think that the mentally handicapped are culpable for crimes? No, because they don't fully understand their actions because of the defect in their brain.


As for people who commit suicide or attempt to commit suicide, to me, it's selfish and weak. It's a way out for some one who feels that they can't face the world. I really don't feel any sympathy for people commit suicide or attempt it. I feel for the families that have lost loved ones to suicide. There are simply too many resource centers and help lines, friends, family, pastors, preachers, doctors, thearpists, etc. to talk to, seek help from, confide in, etc. that some one shouldn't have to seek suicide as the way out or as an option to "solve" the problems they face. In my view, there is no problem too great in this world that you cannot face or feel that it's utterly hopeless.


I am not judging people who are mentally handicapped or suicidal, or even those who have committed suicide and trying to determine whether or not they are ascending to heaven or descending to hell. That job is left up to God. I do not judge any one. I look at their situations though and form my opinions, then speak my mind, but that's not judging.

I realize there are extenuating circumstances. I don't believe in that concept that all sin is equal in God's eyes. He is going to judge people accordingly to their knowledge and deeds. I don't believe that sin is black and white either, because people are not. There are too many grey areas in life. I am trying to approach this topic as though things were black and white, you either repent or go to hell type of attitude. Even though that's not my full belief.