is sailormoon a mary sue?

[Tanith_4486]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
this is according to encyclopaedia, but i have no idea whether she is one or not. but what i do know is that Sailormoon has had a great impact on my life... uh... okay, now back to topic:
is usagi tsukino, Alias sailor moon a mary sue?  

[the mindfreak]

....hmmmm I never heard the author talk bout it so I cannot put in any kind of thing into this topic....sry  

[Zahmira]

Nah. Sailor Moon is too developed a character to be a Mary Sue. Don't know if she maybe started out as one though.  

[Luamervara]

nah. She's not Doing Minako >>;; <<; plus...she's not...attention grabbing and 'perfect'  

[x Amethyst Rose x]

I think she's only a Mary Sue in most fan fiction x_X  

[Zahmira]

serichan19

I think she's only a Mary Sue in most fan fiction x_X

That doesn't make much sense, unless we have very different definitions of "Mary Sue".  

[Syndrama]

Mary Sue = A character INSERTED into a pre-existing story.

Therefore all original characters are exempt from this word. Sailor Moon is not a Mary Sue. Sailor SilverStarGloryMoon, who is Serenity's twin sister yet somehow much more beautiful, and steals away Mamoru then takes over the leadership because Usagi suddenly dies or is thrown out by the others in favor of this much cooler senshi, IS a Mary Sue.  

[Luamervara]

Oh I see how Sailormoon can be made into a Mary sue. *gets a bit of what Serichan19 is saying.*


It's when Sailormoon is ungodly power-perfect and the others more or less just follow her around with no real 'life' in them. and are nearly entirely overshadowed!

>>;; is that it?

<<;;

>>;; and she like kicks someone else out and stuff or something like that is mary-sue ish?  

[Nerina Lyon]

A "Mary Sue" doesn't necessarily have to be a character that is inserted into a pre-existing story. The term can be applied to any character, regardless of whether the character belongs to an original work or fan fiction.

A Mary Sue is viewed as any character (male or female) that is, for all practical purposes, "perfect". She/he is stronger, smarter, prettier, more talented, sweeter, more loving, etc. I personally think that Sailormoon is somewhat of a Mary Sue. Although she does have many flaws, she also has many traits of a Mary Sue. For example, she's considered the sweetest and purest character. Many of the male (and in a couple cases, female) characters seem to be attracted to her, while there are rarely ever characters that are attracted to the other main characters. All of the main characters adore her, and there are very few characters I can think of that never at least eventually come to like her. Most importantly, she is absolutely the most powerful character, period, the end. No character is allowed to be stronger than her. Also, Takeuchi has said before that Usagi is very similar to herself.

 

[Luamervara]

Galaxia is stronger then Sailormoon >> if the sword in the anim hadn't shattered she'd be dead...

x.x  

[Nerina Lyon]

Luamervara

Galaxia is stronger then Sailormoon >> if the sword in the anim hadn't shattered she'd be dead...

x.x

I disagree. If Galaxia was stronger, she would have been able to defeat Sailormoon like she was able to defeat the other characters. There are different kinds of strengths.

 

[Zahmira]

~Alechsa~

Mary Sue = A character INSERTED into a pre-existing story.

Therefore all original characters are exempt from this word. Sailor Moon is not a Mary Sue. Sailor SilverStarGloryMoon, who is Serenity's twin sister yet somehow much more beautiful, and steals away Mamoru then takes over the leadership because Usagi suddenly dies or is thrown out by the others in favor of this much cooler senshi, IS a Mary Sue.

Pretty much my definition of a Mary Sue, except the pre-existing story part.

Sailor Moon could be a Mary Sue if Takeuchi made her an idealised version of herself.  

[Solar Kitty-chan]

I have to disagree with you Michiru. I think the Senshi are equally pure. Also, if Usagi was the most pure, don't you think she would have had one of the Talisman, rather than the Outer Senshi? Only the purest hearts had them.

And physically speaking, Galaxia is stronger than Sailormoon. Uranus and Neptune were stronger than Usagi was when they first entered the picture.

Because Usagi does have so many flaws, she really can't be considered a mary-sue. Her positive traits are exhibit by real people and that's what makes her a character that you can relate to. The same goes with the flaws she has, of course.

As for all the characters that are attracted to her compared to the other main Senshi, well, the Inner Senshi have guys that can qualifiy for significant others (Yuuichirou and Urawa for example). Setsuna is continuously guardian the Gates of Time-Space. Haruka and Michiru have each other. Hotaru is still young, as is Chibi-Usa (despite her following of boys). And if you're going to use that argument for Usagi, then you have to use it for Mamoru as well since he's the one the villain wants if not Usagi.

Characters come to like Usagi because of her personality and how she treats people. How does that make her a Mary-Sue? The main characters adore her, yes, because they're a close group of friends. Yet again, this is another normal trait in life. There are just some people that automatically draw people to them. Another reason they adore her could also be because in their past lives they were her guardians. It wouldn't seem right if her own guardians didn't have some sort of attachment to her; it just doesn't work out like that.

And for the record, I'd like to add that just because a character is similar to the creator does not automatically make them a Mary-Sue. It is possible that creators view their characters as extensions as the self (and there are those that do). I'm not saying this is the exact case of Takeuchi Naoko but it is a possibility. You can't just make assumptions because she said Usagi is similar to her. Plus, it's a common rule when writing anything that writig what you know is the best way. Usagi's similarities could be all due to that as well.

And if you want to go into Mary-Sues within BSSM, I can probably point out what would make the other characters Mary-Sues as well.

So, after all my rambling in defense of Usagi, I'd have to say: No, she isn't a Mary-Sue.  

[Solar Kitty-chan]

Zahmira

~Alechsa~

Mary Sue = A character INSERTED into a pre-existing story.

Therefore all original characters are exempt from this word. Sailor Moon is not a Mary Sue. Sailor SilverStarGloryMoon, who is Serenity's twin sister yet somehow much more beautiful, and steals away Mamoru then takes over the leadership because Usagi suddenly dies or is thrown out by the others in favor of this much cooler senshi, IS a Mary Sue.

Pretty much my definition of a Mary Sue, except the pre-existing story part.

Sailor Moon could be a Mary Sue if Takeuchi made her an idealised version of herself.

I'll agree on most of this but I don't think all fan characters are Mary-Sues. Some of them turn out to be really complex characters.  

[Nerina Lyon]

Solar Kitty-chan: First of all, I don't mind that you disagree. I'm the type of person that tends to just "agree to disagree", since there are cases where it can get ugly otherwise (although I don't think this is one of those). However, to reply to some of your comments...

1. I never said that she is the purest character, I said she is often considered to be the purest. She is usually praised/admired for her goodness and purity because of her loyalty to her friends and her determination to win without sacrificing others. While Uranus and Neptune were talisman holders, they are more often considered to be callous and ruthless for their methods of trying to achieve their goals.

2. Uranus and Neptune were never actually more powerful than Sailormoon, in my opinion. Sailormoon has always been more powerful, she had just not reached her full potential at the point they were first introduced. Uranus and Neptune do not have near the potential for power as she has.

Also, physically speaking, Galaxia was stronger. However, overall, Usagi was the strongest one. Physical power is not the only way to measure strength, nor do I consider it to be the most important strength a person can have. Usagi was stronger because of her determination.

3. I said there are rarely ever characters that are attracted to the other main characters, and in this case, I was mainly referring to the inner senshi. As you said, Michiru and Haruka have each other, and Setsuna doesn't have the time (nor even seem to have interest) for a romantic relationship. Chibiusa, in fact, does have some love interests (although nothing serious).

What I really was trying to say, though, was not a matter of whether any of the other characters have had any sort of romantic interest before. Rather, I was saying it just seems that quite a few other characters seem to fall for Usagi, despite the fact that she's obviously taken. Makoto and Minako, on the other hand, who actually desire a relationship and are available, are typically overlooked. I just find it strange that when all of these characters are supposedly beautiful girls, the only girl that anyone seems to be interested in is always the main character. Sorry, but to me, that seems a little Mary Sue-ish.

(Oh, and by the way, I never said that I don't consider Mamoru somewhat of a Mary Sue, himself. But this isn't about him.)

4. As far as Usagi being similar to Takeuchi... no, that in itself does not make her a Mary Sue. However, that in addition to many of Usagi's traits lead me to believe she is somewhat of a Mary Sue. Usagi was one of Takeuchi's earliest characters, and as such, I think she may have unintentionally "inserted" herself as the main character. Minako, her first protagonist, is quite similar to Usagi in many ways, and so I think you may be right that Takeuchi may have been just writing what she was most familiar with.

5. Oh, yes, many of the other characters have Mary Sue-ish qualities, as well. Perhaps the most apparent one is my favourite character, Michiru, who is probably single-handedly the character most accused of being "too perfect". She's beautiful, musically and artistically gifted, athletic, eloquent, graceful, intelligent, and very insightful, among other things. She's probably equally as Mary-Sueish as Usagi in her own way, if not more.

6. Finally, I would like to say that while I think Usagi has many Mary Sue-ish qualities, she is not the most Mary Sue-ish character I've seen by a long shot. I do not think the fact that she does have many of those qualities make her a bad character. I'm not "attacking" the character. While she's not really one of my favourite characters, I actually do like her. (Well, more so in the manga than the anime.)

And like I said, this is just my own opinion. I don't mind if others have a different one - particularly when it's over something as trivial as this! smile