I was at Petco yesterday and saw raw food options! Wish I could afford it. They also have a food that has freeze dried raw coating on the kibble and freeze dried raw pieces in with the kibble made by the same company that the raw food is by! Wish I could afford the raw, but I might be able to afford the kibble food.
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:19 pm
Yeah! It's becoming more popular. I buy it if I'm going to be boarding or having a petsitter take care of the kids, just so it's easier for them to feed them. But I'm not a big fan of commercial raw; it's basically just kibble, just as commercialized and just as bad as far as some of the ingredients go. Plus, ground meat has a higher bacterial load and it's not very mentally or dentally stimulating. And it's crazy overpriced! I saw that a 1lb chub of Primal at my local Pet Club was almost $9! $9 a freaking pound! I can buy a 10lb bag of chicken quarters for less than that. I get pork at $1.75/lb or less, beef hearts at $1.25lb in a 60lb case, and I recently scored some whole rabbits at about $3 a piece, as well as a lot of free meat from hunting friends so venison, sheep, elk, and javelina also join the menu. If you can source right, you can feed for a lot less than kibble costs smile
Ailinea
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CrissAngelLover12345
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:03 am
At least in its own way, it's still a step in the right direction. biggrin I'm still working on doing research before I start trying to feed raw so I make sure I do it right. I also need to figure out if I have the freezer space and the money to be able to do it. Unfortunately, I don't know any hunters.. I'll continue looking around and pricing things. How much should my dog who's ideal weight is 45 pounds get per day? And my cat, who's ideal weight is 8 pounds? What proportions of meat, organ and bone do I go with? What kinds of meats should I get and are there any I should avoid? Neither of them have any food allergies to my knowledge. I do want to feed raw when ever I can afford to. I already know my dog will happily eat it. It would take some doing with my cat since every time I offered her pieces of raw chicken meat she looked at me like I grew another head.
Edit: Just got a bag of the kibble that has freeze dried raw peices in it! biggrin Can't wait to try it out! biggrin
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:25 pm
Here's a guide that I think answers most of your questions:
Want to start your dog on raw feeding but you're not quite sure where to start, what to do, or are a little intimidated by it? Never fear, it's actually super easy! Here is a sort of guide based on my experiences, and information I've collected.
Despite popular belief, dogs are carnivores. They are very closely related to the wolf, enough to successfully breed viable offspring, so it can only be concluded that dogs are wolves and wolves are carnivores. With that in mind, we should be feeding our dogs an optimal diet - what nature intended. Prey-model raw is the best way to go. Dogs and wolves do not need veggies or carbs. Their digestive system is short like a carnivore’s, and cannot break down or digest plant matter. The only way a dog or wolf can obtain nutrients from vegetables, fruit, or grains is by cooking or blending… neither of these options available to wolves in the wild. The herbivore does all that plant eating and the carnivore eats the herbivore. The trophic pyramid is a wonderful thing, don’t you think?
Prey model raw consists of 4 "ingredients." 80% meat (muscle meat, heart, tongue, lungs, tripe, intestines, etc.) 10% edible bone 5% liver 5% organ (squishy, secreting organs like eyes, brain, spleen, kidney, pancreas, testicles, sweetbreads (thymus))
Dogs should be getting 2-3% of their IDEAL body weight to start. Puppies should be fed by their ideal ADULT weight and should be fed several times a day. This percentage can be adjusted once you get to know your dog. If your dog is getting too porky, feed less; if your dog is getting too skinny or is very active, feed more.
No need to fast after kibble unless it makes you feel better. You can start the transition right away. You don’t need to start feeding half kibble, half raw either. Just switch cold turkey and jump right in! Start your dog off with chicken. Chicken is mild, a little bland, and easily digestible. A lot of people like to start with chicken leg quarters. Some like to feed a whole chicken. Don’t add any organs or any other meat until your dog adjusts to this as you can cause what we call “cannon butt” which… is very smelly and messy, and trust me, you don’t want to experience that. Start off with this for a least a couple weeks to see how your dog adjusts. Monitor your dogs input and output (poop) carefully. If your dog has runny poop, feed more bone. If he has hard, white stools or seems constipated, feed less bone. Once your dog's poops seem normal and it's been a few weeks on just chicken, you can begin to add in other meats. Some dogs will take to new meats added instantly very well. However, some dogs have very sensitive tummies and may need a slow transition to the next protein, especially if it will be a fatty cut like pork. To be on the safe side, you could transition slowly, that is, give a quarter of the next meal as the new meat for a couple meals, then move up to a half of the meal, then 3/4, then finally to the whole meal being the new meat. Go at a pace you'e comfortable with. Once your dog gets used to three or four proteins, then you may begin to feed liver and organs. Remember, not too much! They are very rich and can cause loose stools. But they are necessary.
You might have trouble getting your dog to start on his own. The trick is not to give in. Put your dog’s food down, and if he doesn’t eat within 15 minutes, take it away and try again at next meal time or several hours later. A healthy dog will not starve himself. Sometimes dogs will hold out for days before giving in (mine did for 3 days). DO NOT GIVE IN. Or hand feed. Or give something else. Or anything. You will set yourself up for disaster and a horribly picky eater. Eventually he will eat what you offer him, and you’ll do a little dance, and your dog will see that you’re awesome for giving him this food.
Feed WHOLE! I know a lot of people like to feed ground because it’s cheaper and easier, and a little ground is OK, but also let your dog have the satisfaction of whole cuts of meat. Give him a whole chicken to power through and use those natural carnassial teeth to rip and tear that meat and bone. Some great cuts of meat to feed your dog are whole birds, rabbits, squirrels, bone-in pork shoulder and butt, pork ribs, lamb ribs and shanks, whole pork necks, deer/goat/sheep/pig heads, etc. Avoid beef bones are they are hard on the teeth and have been known to cause breakage, and any kind of bone that has been cut with a saw, as these cut bones are very sharp and the heat used to cut the bone *may* cause splintering. In any case, this is a case of “know thy dog.” Feed bigger than the dog’s head to prevent choking and take away any bones that your dog cannot eat once they strip the meat off. Also, avoid the weight-bearing bones of large ungulates (cow, moose, elk, bison, etc) as they are very hard and, while perhaps fun for the dog, have been known to cause slab fractures in teeth and hard wear-and-tear on the teeth that can cause problems down the road. These bones are most often called femurs, dinosaur bones, marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.
Now… what supplements should you give? Ready… ready… almost none! The only supplement I add to my dog’s food is a high quality, soy-free fish body oil. This contains omega 3’s that replace some of the omega 3’s lost in factory farmed animals. Factory farmed animals are fed inappropriate grain diets and have limited movement, so they have an abnormal amount of omega 6 fatty acids to omega 3’s. My dog gets a “therapeutic dose” of omega 3’s because he has a heart condition. If you are feeding game meats (quail, deer, elk, etc) you don’t need to supplement fish oil if you don’t want to. But feel free to adjust fish oil supplement as needed.
Now, once you get the hang of it, it’s simple! I don’t even measure my dog’s meals anymore… I eyeball what he gets and I don’t get the ratios perfect every meal. The key is balance over time. For instance, I’ll feed him a few boneless meals for a few days, and one day give him a quartered chicken or pork ribs for bone. I’ll feed liver and organ once a week or so.
Ideally, feed red meat as a staple. Wolves’ natural prey is red meat, and it is the best. In my area in the US, pork is a great cheap staple meat and can usually be bought in bulk for a decent price. Beef heart can also be a great choice if it’s available and affordable in your area. Just look around at discounts at grocery stores, warehouses, butchers, abbatoirs, ethnic stores, etc, for the best buy.
As for cats, they're different. They're a bit harder to switch and you can't starve them into feeding like dogs. Best option is to try sneaking in pieces of meat in wet food, or sprinkling some crushed favorite kibble on meat, or "accidentally" dropping meat on the floor, or feeding on a flat surface like a plate or towel. But they need red meat, whole red meat, as they need the taurine in there to survive.
Ailinea
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CrissAngelLover12345
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:56 am
Ailinea
Here's a guide that I think answers most of your questions:
Want to start your dog on raw feeding but you're not quite sure where to start, what to do, or are a little intimidated by it? Never fear, it's actually super easy! Here is a sort of guide based on my experiences, and information I've collected.
Despite popular belief, dogs are carnivores. They are very closely related to the wolf, enough to successfully breed viable offspring, so it can only be concluded that dogs are wolves and wolves are carnivores. With that in mind, we should be feeding our dogs an optimal diet - what nature intended. Prey-model raw is the best way to go. Dogs and wolves do not need veggies or carbs. Their digestive system is short like a carnivore’s, and cannot break down or digest plant matter. The only way a dog or wolf can obtain nutrients from vegetables, fruit, or grains is by cooking or blending… neither of these options available to wolves in the wild. The herbivore does all that plant eating and the carnivore eats the herbivore. The trophic pyramid is a wonderful thing, don’t you think?
Prey model raw consists of 4 "ingredients." 80% meat (muscle meat, heart, tongue, lungs, tripe, intestines, etc.) 10% edible bone 5% liver 5% organ (squishy, secreting organs like eyes, brain, spleen, kidney, pancreas, testicles, sweetbreads (thymus))
Dogs should be getting 2-3% of their IDEAL body weight to start. Puppies should be fed by their ideal ADULT weight and should be fed several times a day. This percentage can be adjusted once you get to know your dog. If your dog is getting too porky, feed less; if your dog is getting too skinny or is very active, feed more.
No need to fast after kibble unless it makes you feel better. You can start the transition right away. You don’t need to start feeding half kibble, half raw either. Just switch cold turkey and jump right in! Start your dog off with chicken. Chicken is mild, a little bland, and easily digestible. A lot of people like to start with chicken leg quarters. Some like to feed a whole chicken. Don’t add any organs or any other meat until your dog adjusts to this as you can cause what we call “cannon butt” which… is very smelly and messy, and trust me, you don’t want to experience that. Start off with this for a least a couple weeks to see how your dog adjusts. Monitor your dogs input and output (poop) carefully. If your dog has runny poop, feed more bone. If he has hard, white stools or seems constipated, feed less bone. Once your dog's poops seem normal and it's been a few weeks on just chicken, you can begin to add in other meats. Some dogs will take to new meats added instantly very well. However, some dogs have very sensitive tummies and may need a slow transition to the next protein, especially if it will be a fatty cut like pork. To be on the safe side, you could transition slowly, that is, give a quarter of the next meal as the new meat for a couple meals, then move up to a half of the meal, then 3/4, then finally to the whole meal being the new meat. Go at a pace you'e comfortable with. Once your dog gets used to three or four proteins, then you may begin to feed liver and organs. Remember, not too much! They are very rich and can cause loose stools. But they are necessary.
You might have trouble getting your dog to start on his own. The trick is not to give in. Put your dog’s food down, and if he doesn’t eat within 15 minutes, take it away and try again at next meal time or several hours later. A healthy dog will not starve himself. Sometimes dogs will hold out for days before giving in (mine did for 3 days). DO NOT GIVE IN. Or hand feed. Or give something else. Or anything. You will set yourself up for disaster and a horribly picky eater. Eventually he will eat what you offer him, and you’ll do a little dance, and your dog will see that you’re awesome for giving him this food.
Feed WHOLE! I know a lot of people like to feed ground because it’s cheaper and easier, and a little ground is OK, but also let your dog have the satisfaction of whole cuts of meat. Give him a whole chicken to power through and use those natural carnassial teeth to rip and tear that meat and bone. Some great cuts of meat to feed your dog are whole birds, rabbits, squirrels, bone-in pork shoulder and butt, pork ribs, lamb ribs and shanks, whole pork necks, deer/goat/sheep/pig heads, etc. Avoid beef bones are they are hard on the teeth and have been known to cause breakage, and any kind of bone that has been cut with a saw, as these cut bones are very sharp and the heat used to cut the bone *may* cause splintering. In any case, this is a case of “know thy dog.” Feed bigger than the dog’s head to prevent choking and take away any bones that your dog cannot eat once they strip the meat off. Also, avoid the weight-bearing bones of large ungulates (cow, moose, elk, bison, etc) as they are very hard and, while perhaps fun for the dog, have been known to cause slab fractures in teeth and hard wear-and-tear on the teeth that can cause problems down the road. These bones are most often called femurs, dinosaur bones, marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.
Now… what supplements should you give? Ready… ready… almost none! The only supplement I add to my dog’s food is a high quality, soy-free fish body oil. This contains omega 3’s that replace some of the omega 3’s lost in factory farmed animals. Factory farmed animals are fed inappropriate grain diets and have limited movement, so they have an abnormal amount of omega 6 fatty acids to omega 3’s. My dog gets a “therapeutic dose” of omega 3’s because he has a heart condition. If you are feeding game meats (quail, deer, elk, etc) you don’t need to supplement fish oil if you don’t want to. But feel free to adjust fish oil supplement as needed.
Now, once you get the hang of it, it’s simple! I don’t even measure my dog’s meals anymore… I eyeball what he gets and I don’t get the ratios perfect every meal. The key is balance over time. For instance, I’ll feed him a few boneless meals for a few days, and one day give him a quartered chicken or pork ribs for bone. I’ll feed liver and organ once a week or so.
Ideally, feed red meat as a staple. Wolves’ natural prey is red meat, and it is the best. In my area in the US, pork is a great cheap staple meat and can usually be bought in bulk for a decent price. Beef heart can also be a great choice if it’s available and affordable in your area. Just look around at discounts at grocery stores, warehouses, butchers, abbatoirs, ethnic stores, etc, for the best buy.
As for cats, they're different. They're a bit harder to switch and you can't starve them into feeding like dogs. Best option is to try sneaking in pieces of meat in wet food, or sprinkling some crushed favorite kibble on meat, or "accidentally" dropping meat on the floor, or feeding on a flat surface like a plate or towel. But they need red meat, whole red meat, as they need the taurine in there to survive.
Thanks! biggrin My dog already happily accepts raw chicken when I give it to him, so when ever I am able to get him on raw, I know I won't have any issues getting him on it.
With my cat, I tried hiding it in her food (tried both wet and dry (water added)), she ate around it.. I tried warming it up a little (it was still mostly raw, just warmed up in an attempt to make it more appealing), she still ignored it, little processed food addict. At least she is on high quality, grainless food. I'll keep trying to offer her peices and I will make sure to give her red meats and things that are high in taurine when I am able to get her on raw.
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:56 pm
I got excited seeing this available at Petco as well. At almost 8 sq. feet, it's an actual approved guinea pig cage for under $100... it's cheaper than a lot of other cages marketed towards pigs, but it's actually the right size!!
SweeteePika
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CrissAngelLover12345
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:31 am
SweeteePika
I got excited seeing this available at Petco as well. At almost 8 sq. feet, it's an actual approved guinea pig cage for under $100... it's cheaper than a lot of other cages marketed towards pigs, but it's actually the right size!!
Oooh nice! Petco is starting to get better with the sizes of enclosures they have too, clearly! biggrin I'm glad they have one big enough for ginea pigs and that is cheaper. More people might get that one as a result! biggrin
On a side note, I found I can afford the raw medalians for my cat and have had her on it for a little over a month. biggrin She loves it, though it took her a day before she finally ate it when I first switched her onto it. I don't have the freezer space, nor the time to be able to do home made raw yet.
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