I think this is something we should all see...

[subtleessence134]

linked fixed by caustic because it stretches the page

I think we should all take a good look at this.

Parts of it really scare me...  

[Dathu]

I know it looks bad, but it's not only for "faith-based" institutions. Although, I admit that religious organizations will capitalize anywhere possible, I can see a lot of state, county, and township institutions benefiting as well.

However, I hate Bush, and this only shows what a complete moron he is for sneaking religious favor in with institutional support.

But I'm not worried. Religion is a fad, and it'll fade out soon enough.  

[subtleessence134]

My primary concerns with this involve situations like This

^ Imagine if that had been an Atheist and not a Catholic.

Section 3a

conduct, in coordination with the WHOFBCI Director, a department-wide audit to identify all existing barriers to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the delivery of social and community services by the Department, including but not limited to regulations, rules, orders, procure-ment, and other internal policies and practices, and outreach activities that unlawfully discriminate against, or otherwise discourage or disadvantage the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in Federal programs;

 

[Sanguvixen]

subtleessence134

My primary concerns with this involve situations like This

^ Imagine if that had been an Atheist and not a Catholic.

Section 3a

conduct, in coordination with the WHOFBCI Director, a department-wide audit to identify all existing barriers to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the delivery of social and community services by the Department, including but not limited to regulations, rules, orders, procure-ment, and other internal policies and practices, and outreach activities that unlawfully discriminate against, or otherwise discourage or disadvantage the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in Federal programs;

Hmmm...If it was an athiest instead of catholic?

It would have been interesting to see how it would pan out.

For one religious group to tell a individual of another religious group seeking help that the only way he could stay out of prison is to convert to thier religion......Hmm.

Let me say this: If I was him I would not only sue, but do everything in my power to get that entire program shut down. In my eyes it is a type of corruption that should not be allowed.

It is foul, vile, and....should be illegal. No one should be put in a place where they have to "Convert" in order to stay out of jail.

The entire thing is unconstitutional....very unconstitutional( the situation).

 

[Sanguvixen]

Personally....That bit in the first post....it shows just what Bush intends.

Bush was not elected by Americans as a whole in the first election. The Electorial Collage got him through.

Bush was not elected by Americans as a whole in the second election. He was put in through religious voters, and organizing religion. How many cases cropped up where pastors demanded that if individuals supported god in thier church, that they must vote for Bush?

Bush knows what he wants. We know what he wants. We know what he cares about. He cares about big businesses and helping the little religious maggots/extremists worm thier twisted wants and desires into the gov't.

That is why I don't like Bush. He thinks he is above the law. He thinks he can corrode the barrier that has kept America strong for 100+ years.

The Seperation of Church and State is an asset to our country. Our founding fathers had all sorts of screw up countries to look to for mistakes NOT TO BE REPEATED. So many places were dealing with so many problems of corruption, injustice, torture...because Religion and State were combined.

Bush is woefully ignorant when it comes to the above.

 

[King_Gir]

Well we all know that Bush will do anything to get what he wants, or really to break the laws of the constitution. He is just pushing himself as far as he can go, first with the war in Iraq for oil, then the phone tapping, and now this stuff. He is trying to get everyone to be religous, which will destroy the country. If many convert the few that don't will fight for their right to think as an individual. And it will be England and all the religous torture all over again, then the second crusades will start. I wouldn't be surprised if beofre his term ends he tries to change the constitution so he can stay in office for good. That is just what kind of maniac he is.....But I kinda got off topic and was bashing Bush......forgive me.  

[Sanguvixen]

Come to think of it, it isn't just Bush. It is unfair to point fingers just at Bush.

It is becoming a growing phenomena. So many people are being so ignorent towards what is in the constitution, why those things are in the constitution, and why they need to stay there.

For that matter so many people are ignorent of thier religion's past.

Have they forgotten their history lessons in school, or were they not paying attention?

Have the forgotton why our ancestors fought the Revolutionary War?

Have they forgotten how many people left England and other parts of that hemisphere to come to the 13 colonies? They were seeing freedom from religious persecution.

For so long people struggled to follow what religion they wish to, and to free themselves from the chains of persecution, and suppression coming from organized religion.

Now...the very religious groups(the name which they call themselves) that did those horrible things back then, are gaining strength now.

Now they whine. Now they complain. They say "We are being oppressed! We can't practice our religion anymore!" They turn to the Gov't for protection.

I don't get it? They want the government to protect thier freedom to worship. Yet in thier demented minds, freedom to worship means freedom to taint everything. Freedom to have religion dominate the gov't....that is what they want and it is wrong.

Today...Families are torn apart because of religious preference...and individuals members are shunned for choosing to be different.

These people...that go on about how wonderful thier religion is.....Have they forgotten all the people who have died cruel, inhumane deaths due to the "The Word of God"?

Have they forgotten what has happened in the past when church and state become one?

So many people are so woefully ignorent of human history...and it makes me angry sometimes.

Religion should not be mandatory. Religion should be personal choice. If a person decide to go against religion, and not believe, than that is thier personal choice. Religion should not a part of the state, or the government.

Past history shows us "Why religion needs to be seperate".

Why do so many people not realize that History can, does, and will repeat itself?

 

[caustic 0_0]

It's 3 am, so you will have to pardon me for not getting into everything now. I'm mainly posting to remind myself to come back and post.
So many errors in everything that's been posted so far though.  

[King_Gir]

At this rate history will repeat itself, and to address that school history thing. Many schools will not teach the realities of religous strife because it is too graphic and will paint religion in a bad light. They cover it up by not bringing it up so that people will not be afraid of religion and so that people will continue to believe. Much like they leave out the vile things their own countries do in wars, because their country is supposed to be the hero, the same thing applies here with religion. Also it is the seperation of church and state, some school districts say that mentioning religion, no matter how valid and how much it teaches will go against the seperation.  

[Sanguvixen]

King_Gir

At this rate history will repeat itself, and to address that school history thing. Many schools will not teach the realities of religous strife because it is too graphic and will paint religion in a bad light. They cover it up by not bringing it up so that people will not be afraid of religion and so that people will continue to believe. Much like they leave out the vile things their own countries do in wars, because their country is supposed to be the hero, the same thing applies here with religion. Also it is the seperation of church and state, some school districts say that mentioning religion, no matter how valid and how much it teaches will go against the seperation.

An interesting thing to point out...I once had a history teacher tell the class this:

The first form of Biological Warfare was used by Americans. They took blankets that people infected in small pox had slept in, and gave it to the Native Americans when they were being forced out of thier home by us.

The event is called the Trail of Tears. Most of the Native American population was wiped out because they don't have any type of immunity to Small-pox...the americans know that.

They acted as though the blankets were gifts, and the Native Americans took the blankets thinking them gifts, not knowing they were accepting death by touching those things.

In any case that is all true. History tends to be hidden because humans don't want to face what they are capable of and have done to thier own kind.

 

[Wiccan Clarinet]

Yet I still can't marry my girlfriend...not that I have on right now...but I did...That is utterly ridiculous!!!!!!  

[Orson Welles]

Sanguvixen

King_Gir

At this rate history will repeat itself, and to address that school history thing. Many schools will not teach the realities of religous strife because it is too graphic and will paint religion in a bad light. They cover it up by not bringing it up so that people will not be afraid of religion and so that people will continue to believe. Much like they leave out the vile things their own countries do in wars, because their country is supposed to be the hero, the same thing applies here with religion. Also it is the seperation of church and state, some school districts say that mentioning religion, no matter how valid and how much it teaches will go against the seperation.

An interesting thing to point out...I once had a history teacher tell the class this:

The first form of Biological Warfare was used by Americans. They took blankets that people infected in small pox had slept in, and gave it to the Native Americans when they were being forced out of thier home by us.

The event is called the Trail of Tears. Most of the Native American population was wiped out because they don't have any type of immunity to Small-pox...the americans know that.

They acted as though the blankets were gifts, and the Native Americans took the blankets thinking them gifts, not knowing they were accepting death by touching those things.

In any case that is all true. History tends to be hidden because humans don't want to face what they are capable of and have done to thier own kind.

Actually, that's untrue. The first form of biological warfare was used by Mongolians in the 1300's. That's how the plague spread to Europe. In one of their battles, they catapulted corpses infected with the plagues as a desperation measure.  

[Sanguvixen]

Blasphemize

Sanguvixen

King_Gir

At this rate history will repeat itself, and to address that school history thing. Many schools will not teach the realities of religous strife because it is too graphic and will paint religion in a bad light. They cover it up by not bringing it up so that people will not be afraid of religion and so that people will continue to believe. Much like they leave out the vile things their own countries do in wars, because their country is supposed to be the hero, the same thing applies here with religion. Also it is the seperation of church and state, some school districts say that mentioning religion, no matter how valid and how much it teaches will go against the seperation.

An interesting thing to point out...I once had a history teacher tell the class this:

The first form of Biological Warfare was used by Americans. They took blankets that people infected in small pox had slept in, and gave it to the Native Americans when they were being forced out of thier home by us.

The event is called the Trail of Tears. Most of the Native American population was wiped out because they don't have any type of immunity to Small-pox...the americans know that.

They acted as though the blankets were gifts, and the Native Americans took the blankets thinking them gifts, not knowing they were accepting death by touching those things.

In any case that is all true. History tends to be hidden because humans don't want to face what they are capable of and have done to thier own kind.

Actually, that's untrue. The first form of biological warfare was used by Mongolians in the 1300's. That's how the plague spread to Europe. In one of their battles, they catapulted corpses infected with the plagues as a desperation measure.

Hmm..you may or may not be right. I've never heard of that one.

I'm just going on what my teacher said. Of course I researched the topic, and it turned out to be true(what happened.)

 

[TheFiresOfStupid]

Sanguvixen

subtleessence134

My primary concerns with this involve situations like This

^ Imagine if that had been an Atheist and not a Catholic.

Section 3a

conduct, in coordination with the WHOFBCI Director, a department-wide audit to identify all existing barriers to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the delivery of social and community services by the Department, including but not limited to regulations, rules, orders, procure-ment, and other internal policies and practices, and outreach activities that unlawfully discriminate against, or otherwise discourage or disadvantage the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in Federal programs;

Hmmm...If it was an athiest instead of catholic?

It would have been interesting to see how it would pan out.

For one religious group to tell a individual of another religious group seeking help that the only way he could stay out of prison is to convert to thier religion......Hmm.

Let me say this: If I was him I would not only sue, but do everything in my power to get that entire program shut down. In my eyes it is a type of corruption that should not be allowed.

It is foul, vile, and....should be illegal. No one should be put in a place where they have to "Convert" in order to stay out of jail.

The entire thing is unconstitutional....very unconstitutional( the situation).

Completely agreed. That is a full on violation of religious rights.  

[Orson Welles]

Sanguvixen

Blasphemize

Sanguvixen

King_Gir

At this rate history will repeat itself, and to address that school history thing. Many schools will not teach the realities of religous strife because it is too graphic and will paint religion in a bad light. They cover it up by not bringing it up so that people will not be afraid of religion and so that people will continue to believe. Much like they leave out the vile things their own countries do in wars, because their country is supposed to be the hero, the same thing applies here with religion. Also it is the seperation of church and state, some school districts say that mentioning religion, no matter how valid and how much it teaches will go against the seperation.

An interesting thing to point out...I once had a history teacher tell the class this:

The first form of Biological Warfare was used by Americans. They took blankets that people infected in small pox had slept in, and gave it to the Native Americans when they were being forced out of thier home by us.

The event is called the Trail of Tears. Most of the Native American population was wiped out because they don't have any type of immunity to Small-pox...the americans know that.

They acted as though the blankets were gifts, and the Native Americans took the blankets thinking them gifts, not knowing they were accepting death by touching those things.

In any case that is all true. History tends to be hidden because humans don't want to face what they are capable of and have done to thier own kind.

Actually, that's untrue. The first form of biological warfare was used by Mongolians in the 1300's. That's how the plague spread to Europe. In one of their battles, they catapulted corpses infected with the plagues as a desperation measure.

Hmm..you may or may not be right. I've never heard of that one.

I'm just going on what my teacher said. Of course I researched the topic, and it turned out to be true(what happened.)

I was actually wrong, as well. sweatdrop The first form was used in 6th century B.C.

Here's a link with a lot of information on biological warfare:

Wikipedia: History of biological warfare