Advanced Strategies: Potential Edits?

[The Wild Hunt]

The Lady of Nirvana

Had0u

Reiko Zena

Narcissistic Nihilist

Bahd grammer is reel

SuperKawaiiOrpheus

Hiro Totally Has A Soul

Panthers7

Ace is a Pirate now

xxxxxxxxxxTHE ADVANCED STRATEGIES


xxxxxThis is a list of exceptionally important rules that come into play during combat in NUR. These rules exist in other places in the guild, but we decided it would be best to detail them in a more accessible place.

xxxxxMAJOR STRATEGY: RANKS
Ranks: Ranks are possibly the most important factor in NUR. When two ninjutsu come into direct contact with each other, there is a whole volley of things that will come into play to determine which one is destroyed and which one remains. Sometimes both will be destroyed. In rare cases, sometimes neither. Rank is the absolute most important factor that determines this. This is explained by means of chakra tenacity, sheer power and density. If a more "powerful" chakra impacts a less powerful one, it will completely destroy it and move on. Two attacks of equal rank will destroy each other.

If an A rank fire technique hits a B rank earth technique, it will destroy it. It is really as simple as that.

1. You can obtain boosts to jutsu rank ("power") by means of classes, clans, bloodlines, and sometimes other factors.

2. These rank boosters may never exceed +1 save for rare occasions.

xxxxxMAJOR STRATEGY: ELEMENTAL COUNTERS
Counters: As shown in the picture, some elements dominate over each other. Fire dominates wind, wind dominates lightning, lightning dominates earth, earth dominates water, and water dominates fire. So how exactly does this come into effect in NUR?

"When two ninjutsu come into direct contact with each other, there is a whole volley of things that will come into play to determine which one is destroyed and which one remains. Sometimes both will be destroyed. In rare cases, sometimes neither." One of the important systems in deciding how this will occur is the elemental countering.

When two attacks of equal rank but different elements collide, generally they will just destroy each other. However in the case of a dominant element, upon impact, the dominated element will receive a rank-down penalty. If they are both S-ranked, it will be decreased to A-rank, which will in turn cause it to be destroyed. There are some nuances for this as well.

1. This does not effect asset restrictions; for example you cannot negate this weakness by means of a +2 rank boost on that element that would fill in the -1. Your +1 to the element is still being considered, which means there cannot be an additional +1 rank boost, regardless of anything.

2. More may be added with time and remembrance.


xxxxxMAJOR STRATEGY: SCIENCE
Science! Science is an important factor in NUR. It is important in deciding elemental counters, as well as other things. It cannot be put on the same level in determining a technique's victory as rank, but it greatly effects the sway of the battle, the aftermath of techniques, etc. Here are some examples as to how science comes to play:

1. Water cooling lava into stone

2. Lightning conducting off of water (and a whole slew of other things)

3. Wind removing the oxygen for fire to work with

4. Fire igniting the oxygen in wind to expand and spread

5. Earth absorbing water

Science can often determine who lives and who dies in a fight. For example, we can indeed say that one might die from bloodloss or a certain combination of their wounds reacting violently to each other and killing them. This is however a limitless system so it cannot really be fully detailed here.

THIS STILL TAKES RANK INTO EFFECT. An E-ranked water bomb isn't going to cool S-rank lava. And this isn't an elemental counter either. It is something to consider and works better the closer the attacks are in rank.

xxxxxMEDIAL STRATEGY: PERCEPTION
Perception: Perception is important in determining whether one can react to an attack. It directly plays with reaction time; in order to be able to react to their attack, you have to perceive that it is coming. It does not have ranks or levels, but generally perception boosts are detailed enough for clarity.

If an attack is perceived in any way, the shinobi can react to it. Some forms of perception generally work better on different types of abilities. Some are more well-rounded.
Major forms of perception:

1. Chakra/Natural Energy Sensing: Generally can feel disturbances in chakra; best for countering techniques, not as good at countering high speed/melee

2. Sight Perception: This is obvious; perceive what you can see, react as soon as possible.

3. Dojutsu Perception: This is varied. The Byakugan is well-rounded, the Sharingan can react well to obvious offensive attacks, the Rinnegan is also well-rounded.

4. Vibration Detection: This sort of plays in with your sense of touch. It is often done in conjunction with elemental techniques. You perceive what you feel and your body can react to it.

5. Other Senses: Hearing, smelling, feeling, seeing and sometimes even tasting all come into play.

More advanced strategies will be added as time goes on!

Gonna let Nirvana post what she wants revised.  

[The Emperors Fallacy]

So I edited Shane's post and just quoted everyone.

I think throughout this, we should add a time element, especially with those that have a higher elemental ability compared to those that beat it.

Like despite that an A rank fire jutsu can beat a B rank earth due to chakra density, we should add in a time span so that it wouldn't immediately eliminate the jutsu without making much sense of it. I mean, even for a B rank, the chakra density should be prominent enough to last a while before getting annihilated. And maybe even longer if you factor in an element or a science part that may overcome the element of the higher ranked jutsu.  

[___youwillknownihilism]

The Lady of Nirvana

So I edited Shane's post and just quoted everyone.

I think throughout this, we should add a time element, especially with those that have a higher elemental ability compared to those that beat it.

Like despite that an A rank fire jutsu can beat a B rank earth due to chakra density, we should add in a time span so that it wouldn't immediately eliminate the jutsu without making much sense of it. I mean, even for a B rank, the chakra density should be prominent enough to last a while before getting annihilated. And maybe even longer if you factor in an element or a science part that may overcome the element of the higher ranked jutsu.

Yeah, otherwise defensive jutsu are lackluster. Like, True Hydra is an s rank, and it hits an A rank defense, it'll break it, but not instantly. It'd be like it was burning through it really fast. That way you can defend yourself against a higher ranked tech, but only so much. Like factoring the creation time for the defense, the handseals, and your own speed determines if you make it out. And on that note, if an S rank hits a A rank defense, does all of it's power carry through?  

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Bahd grammer is reel

The Lady of Nirvana

So I edited Shane's post and just quoted everyone.

I think throughout this, we should add a time element, especially with those that have a higher elemental ability compared to those that beat it.

Like despite that an A rank fire jutsu can beat a B rank earth due to chakra density, we should add in a time span so that it wouldn't immediately eliminate the jutsu without making much sense of it. I mean, even for a B rank, the chakra density should be prominent enough to last a while before getting annihilated. And maybe even longer if you factor in an element or a science part that may overcome the element of the higher ranked jutsu.

Yeah, otherwise defensive jutsu are lackluster. Like, True Hydra is an s rank, and it hits an A rank defense, it'll break it, but not instantly. It'd be like it was burning through it really fast. That way you can defend yourself against a higher ranked tech, but only so much. Like factoring the creation time for the defense, the handseals, and your own speed determines if you make it out. And on that note, if an S rank hits a A rank defense, does all of it's power carry through?

I think that would depend on the stopping power of the defense used. A wall of lightning wouldn't do much to stop a torrent of water. A similar problem arises when flames are used to try and stop wind. So I'd say that science and logic would have to factor in heavily.  

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Reiko Zena

Very astute. However science factors in heavily with this breed of magical powers. At least the majority of them. There are anomalies in all branches of science, and the observation of the workings in the Naruto universe is no different. I. E, the flames from Amaterasu burn with no regard to water or oxygen content. This is an anomaly, as most all other flames can be doused. So I stand by my statement that both science and logic should be considered when observing the effects of jutsu.  

[The Wild Hunt]

Stopping power can make sense, but does it help the balance? No.

Even a slight pause can easily allow a shinobi to completely dodge an enemy's technique, which makes defending and waring them down virtually the only viable strategy.

As for science, it does play a part, in fact a crucial part. But it doesn't play a role -- nor should it -- that bases the balance of the guild on a real world aspect. If combat relied more on scientific reasoning than magic, then everything would shift and we'd have to rebuild the balance from scratch. Frankly a lot of things wouldn't even make sense anymore.

Some elements would find themselves supreme, and others would become awful. Same for bloodline elements. And most everything else.

More important than the science is the chakra power and density; its ability to destroy other masses of chakra. A chakra enhanced lightning bolt can decimate a tide of water that has no chakra. It is on a level of its own, beyond science.  

[The Emperors Fallacy]

Shane-senpai

I agree, up to the point about chakra density.

Chakra density is an incorrect word to describe the amount of chakra occupying in a certain space. In terms of vocab, density = mass/volume. To keep it simple, yes the amount of chakra used in a single jutsu is definitely an important factor but not the most important factor. In fact, the moment one applies more chakra to a jutsu, that jutsu is no longer the original jutsu the wielder casted. That's the difference between great fire ball jutsu and dragon flame jutsu- they're both similar but obviously their ranks and chakra consumption differs from each other.

Also, jutsu that aren't assisted by chakra much are not necessarily weaker. Take for instance Kirin, it is by far STILL one of the most powerful lightning jutsu and the humor in it all, is that the chakra is used NOT to produce it but just to guide it. Apparently chakra doesn't always lead to better imitations of naturally occurring phenomenons.

An equivalent to what you were saying about water being weak without chakra would be say someone tapping a super heated geyser deep within the earth and only using chakra to direct its course, NOT producing it. Like Kirin, this shows that one doesn't create elements but can also "ride" on nature's back.  

[___youwillknownihilism]

The Lady of Nirvana

Shane-senpai

I agree, up to the point about chakra density.

Chakra density is an incorrect word to describe the amount of chakra occupying in a certain space. In terms of vocab, density = mass/volume. To keep it simple, yes the amount of chakra used in a single jutsu is definitely an important factor but not the most important factor. In fact, the moment one applies more chakra to a jutsu, that jutsu is no longer the original jutsu the wielder casted. That's the difference between great fire ball jutsu and dragon flame jutsu- they're both similar but obviously their ranks and chakra consumption differs from each other.

Also, jutsu that aren't assisted by chakra much are not necessarily weaker. Take for instance Kirin, it is by far STILL one of the most powerful lightning jutsu and the humor in it all, is that the chakra is used NOT to produce it but just to guide it. Apparently chakra doesn't always lead to better imitations of naturally occurring phenomenons.

An equivalent to what you were saying about water being weak without chakra would be say someone tapping a super heated geyser deep within the earth and only using chakra to direct its course, NOT producing it. Like Kirin, this shows that one doesn't create elements but can also "ride" on nature's back.

Inbound custom.  

[ShiningAce]

I like it. People seem to be trying to make this realistic to the very last period, and not getting that it has to be balanced, and help the guild. We aren't a Science guild lol.  

[Hiro the Herp]

S H I N I N G A C E

I like it. People seem to be trying to make this realistic to the very last period, and not getting that it has to be balanced, and help the guild. We aren't a Science guild lol.

I have to agree with Ace on this one.
Don't make things too complex, or otherwise we'd become Hidden Villages v2.I would very much like this to remain NUR. We should leave things as they are.  

[Panthers7]

I see where everyone is coming from. Anime logical has always been on a different plane than the real world. But there are some things we cannot instantly deny scientifically.

Personally, my problem is with the wording:

If an A rank fire technique hits a B rank earth technique, it will destroy it. It is really as simple as that.

Like the other Crew has stated, more factors have to be applied here. It really depends more on the jutsu and the rank. Certain jutsu's wouldn't just blast through another.

I also noticed that there was "perception" posted. Are we intending on making further stats? It would make battling A LOT easier in terms of who is superior and who is not. One guild made it very nice in the fact of a person's hand-seal speed in addition to their ninjutsu prowess vs a person's physical speed. It makes reviewing the fight as an rper and as mod, thousand times easier as based on stats you can see if the move made was legit or pushing boundaries that a character does not possess; or not possess within that moment of attack/defense.  

[The Emperors Fallacy]

Panthers7

I see where everyone is coming from. Anime logical has always been on a different plane than the real world. But there are some things we cannot instantly deny scientifically.

Personally, my problem is with the wording:

If an A rank fire technique hits a B rank earth technique, it will destroy it. It is really as simple as that.

Like the other Crew has stated, more factors have to be applied here. It really depends more on the jutsu and the rank. Certain jutsu's wouldn't just blast through another.

I also noticed that there was "perception" posted. Are we intending on making further stats? It would make battling A LOT easier in terms of who is superior and who is not. One guild made it very nice in the fact of a person's hand-seal speed in addition to their ninjutsu prowess vs a person's physical speed. It makes reviewing the fight as an rper and as mod, thousand times easier as based on stats you can see if the move made was legit or pushing boundaries that a character does not possess; or not possess within that moment of attack/defense.

I agree with the last concept mentioned by Panthers here.
There's factors we still have include.

And like Kerron mentioned, this system weakens our defensive techniques, especially those who have barrier/sealing methods involved.

I felt by adding time and put a little more emphasis on elements/science, we could even out the playing field even more.

Not saying to gear this entire thing towards elements/science, but we need to still emphasize a little more on this aspect. We can always cap the extent to which it won't be overdone.
ialsothinkweshouldadjustthechakrasystemabitbutthat'snotconcerningthisconversationrightnow...8D