if the bible says love the sinner and hate the sin, if the bible says both in the old as in the new testament that homosexuality is a sin, why so many christians say that theres nothing wrong with it, it doesnt affect them, and things like that (that we're not supposed to "shove" our belife to other like this..but at the same time, not saying nothing, isnt this like denying Christ in front of other? is this really what christians do think in america? about unholy food like pig or shrimp was this abolish in the new testament? because i thought that the only thing we were suposed not to eat was blood, i am feeling a bit sad because of this
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:00 pm
Yes indeed HATE sin...but love the sinner...Im a soul winner in my churches ministry we are taught to love the sinner god has blessed me with a heart for the lost and I have learned over the years the best way to win someone for Christ is to show the LOVE of God the LOVE of Jesus... When Jesus came to town(lol) He didnt kick it with the high class He came for the sinners the tax collectors the prostitutes (mark 2:16-17) and he didnt shove bible and thus says the lord to the lost who were willing because as they bible says THEY DONT UNDERSTAND he simply showed them love and forgiveness. IT's not our job to judge disclude or argue the decisions of the lost its simply our job to know Christ and make Him known to a Lost world. You dont have to hang out with A HOMESEXUAL but it is your job to tell them about Jesus... Being a Homosexual is not their problem..Being a sinner is and Only through Jesus can we find forgiveness for our sins. His yoke is easy.
As for food...Hey I live on a tight budget...If Jesus Blesses me with it im eating it.
this all started in a conversation with people, one asks, is being gay a sin? and i reply being a gay isn't a sin but indulging in it, it is... this was enough to start a discussion, that i tried to base in the scriptures. dont take me wrong i prayed for them but in the middle of the discussion being the only one to defend what is written in the Holy Book, in the middle of other people that call themself christian, made me sad... this didnt happen face to face was online but anyway...
i feel that our world is getting out of control, the sin is taking control of everything and people is getting so used to it, that they dont see anything wrong anymore, if nothing is wrong people wont feel like they need a change, so nothing will pass, but letting them continue in their mistake can cost their lifes, because the payment of sin is death... i dont know when my life will end, also i dont know when anyone will die, if i lose my last chance to let someone know that something is wrong isnt it best to let them know...
"¶ my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. ¶ "Because you have rejected knowledge, ¶ I also reject you as my priests; ¶ because you have ignored the law of your God, ¶ I also will ignore your children. Oséias 4:6"
i know that we need to love everybody, but isnt telling people what is wright a way of love as well, for instace, you know that the stove is hot, so you tell your son, the stove is hot, dont touch, he decides to touch and he will burn himself, but you let him know in advance that would happen... it doesnt make things easier but you tried to make your best in protecting him... thats what i meant
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:34 am
Yes you are right and showing love to tell people that homosexuality is wrong and they need to repent from it and every other sins. People don't like it because they don't like being told right from wrong, of course the Bible says that so you're going to get slammed for it.
You are not alone. I agree with your perspective that sin is a sin. We have discussed this in friendly debate here, other people in the guild have also expressed the same point of view.
To keep in mind, though, don't stress yourself for it because only God can touch the heart. We did our best and keep praying for them heart
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:28 am
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
- Luke 6:37
yes this is correct, but the bible says we are one body and Christ is the head, right? if your foot is hurt you bandage it right? we cant ignore what happens around us, or we will be guilty of the same sin, letting someone sin without realising its also bad... when i was a baby in faith i've learned that eating blood was a sin, and my mother in law didnt care, but she didnt let me nor my husband tell my father in law that it was a sin, and he ate blood like 2 months before he died... i still feel guilty, because i tried to please my mother in law not God, and i decided since then that i would let others know what really the bible says about something
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:25 am
And here I thought I was the unorthodox one regarding homosexuality.
I do not believe it is a choice, like people claim. I believe people are born that way. I support same sex marriage for that reason and people don't believe that when I say I'm Baptist. They clump me with Westboro.
Last time I checked, I don't go around with picket signs calling people "fags." Or saying God hates the world.
And while I understand people have differing beliefs than I do, I'll keep my mouth shut about them unless they are being downright hateful about it. I went to a church in my area (before I found my church home) and the pastor's sermon included messages of hating certain sinners. I apologize, but the Bible tells us otherwise. This sounds bad but I walked out in the middle of the sermon.
You want to piss me off faster than anything else? Make a statement along the lines of "gay people will.never get into heaven regardless of what they do." Doesn't the Roman.Road say otherwise?
if the bible says love the sinner and hate the sin, if the bible says both in the old as in the new testament that homosexuality is a sin, why so many christians say that theres nothing wrong with it, it doesnt affect them, and things like that (that we're not supposed to "shove" our belife to other like this..but at the same time, not saying nothing, isnt this like denying Christ in front of other? is this really what christians do think in america? about unholy food like pig or shrimp was this abolish in the new testament? because i thought that the only thing we were suposed not to eat was blood, i am feeling a bit sad because of this
The reason why so many Christians say there's nothing wrong with it is because they failed to love the truth presented in the bible—the truth that is in accord with both the New and Old Testament.
Psalm 119:142 (KJV)
142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
John 17:17 (KJV)
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Instead, they learn popular doctrine (not good, sound doctrine, according to God's law), and are taught to put their loyalty into said popular doctrine, instead of reading the Father's and Jesus' every word—and wholeheartedly dedicating themselves to his instructions.
For instance, how many Christians are loyal to the following teaching of Jesus:
Matthew 23:1-4 (NIV)
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Jesus taught his disciples, and thus us, to keep what is read from Moses' seat (i.e. the Law of Moses) despite the Pharisees not practicing it themselves; in fact, Jesus elaborates on this in Matthew 15: instead of valuing what God said, the Pharisees taught their own doctrines, interpretations, and traditions that nullify/negate/cancel out what God commanded us to do—so no one keeps what the Father said, but what the Pharisees (religious authority) would have them do and think. When something is added or taken away from God's Law, the yoke becomes heavy:
Matthew 15:1-10, 20 (KJV)
1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
[...]
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
That hand-washing tradition for instance, what the Jews know as the "netilat yadayim", the Father never actually commanded anywhere in the Old Testament. Yet, in the eyes of the Pharisees (religious authority), "you're defiled/unclean" if you do not partake in this self-imposed tradition, if you do not view the clean/unclean distinctions the way they view it (but instead view the clean/unclean distinctions obediently, God's way).
Same thing with how they were interpreting the fifth commandment: they excused the way they wanted to interpret it with a very religious-sounding justification too, in essence, "sorry parents, I dedicated this to God already; this could've been used for your benefit but nope, you get nothing". At the end of the day, it's a matter of who you ultimately hold in highest esteem: man's word and instructions VS. God's word and instructions which have already been written down. Ignorance is the reason why Christians are doing (and speaking) contrary to both the Father and the Son.
A prime example of that is the very example you gave: the distinction between Clean/Unclean foods. They were not abolished in the New Testament. That's (1) a distortion of the text, (2) ignorance of the law and the prophets, and (3) again reliance on traditional doctrine instead of what Jesus actually said.
Evidence:
• In prophecy:
Isaiah 66:17(NIV)
17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.
• In the apostle's writings:
· True meaning of the vision in Acts 10 (whole chapter needs to be read in order to understand):
Acts 10 (KJV)
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of allsmile
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
After seeing the vision three times (v. 14-17), Peter finally realized what the vision meant after interacting with the Gentiles (v. 18-35): in a nutshell, "accept the Gentiles that believe in, and obey, the Holy God of Israel (v. 34-35), who believed the gospel of Jesus Christ (v. 36-43) and receive my Holy Spirit (v. 44). It had nothing to do with food. Cornelius was a Gentile that feared the Holy God of Israel, was devout, and prayerful (verses 1-2), and he received the Holy Spirit after listening to, and thus believing, the Gospel (verse 44-48), and so he, as a Gentile, was accepted into the fold.
· Paul teaching what "food" is and that it must be consecrated by the Word of God (not just prayer):
1 Timothy 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
The parts of God's Word that consecrates/sanctifies/sets-apart food are: Leviticus 11, Deuteronomy 14 and Genesis 1:29-30.
• And of course, Jesus teaching that he didn't come to abolish any of the laws or prophecies. He came to fulfill/do them. And whoever teaches man to go against even the least of these will be considered least in the kingdom (and depending on how you interpret this, it could mean you're not even in the kingdom, but that's the reputation you have amongst the righteous within the kingdom).
Matthew 5:17-20 (NIV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Until all prophecy is fulfilled, until this earth and heavens pass away, none of the law and none of the prophecies are going anywhere. And they both speak against pork / unclean meats.
And yet traditional "Christian doctrine" will have you think otherwise.
---
Dr-ET
Yes indeed HATE sin...but love the sinner...Im a soul winner in my churches ministry we are taught to love the sinner god has blessed me with a heart for the lost and I have learned over the years the best way to win someone for Christ is to show the LOVE of God the LOVE of Jesus... When Jesus came to town(lol) He didnt kick it with the high class He came for the sinners the tax collectors the prostitutes (mark 2:16-17) and he didnt shove bible and thus says the lord to the lost who were willing because as they bible says THEY DONT UNDERSTAND he simply showed them love and forgiveness. IT's not our job to judge disclude or argue the decisions of the lost its simply our job to know Christ and make Him known to a Lost world. You dont have to hang out with A HOMESEXUAL but it is your job to tell them about Jesus... Being a Homosexual is not their problem..Being a sinner is and Only through Jesus can we find forgiveness for our sins. His yoke is easy.
As for food...Hey I live on a tight budget...If Jesus Blesses me with it im eating it.
More accurately, we are to express acts of love towards the sinner—which is what God does, even though he may actually hate the sinner just as much as the sin. He gave his Son to the world, an act of favor/mercy/love, but if they don't accept his Son, if they don't persevere in the faith, they're condemned already. They're not going to receive love for rejecting Jesus. He's going to hate them/show them wrath.
John 3:16-18 (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Psalm 5:5 (NIV)
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong;
Ephesians 5:6 (NIV)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Secondly, part of Jesus' love was expressed by quoting scripture to sinners (sinners in the synagogue especially). Even if it meant outright telling them: you're ignorant of God's commands and of the God you worship. Letting a person go on deceived, without knowing the law, is the expression of hate (it's love to show them the law and what God is really like).
For example,
• To the Samaritan woman ("you're ignorant"):
John 4:22 (NIV)
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
• To the Sadducees ("you're ignorant too"):
Matthew 22:29 (NIV)
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
The ones who needed the most saving were the "already-religious" people; they were just as ignorant of God's Law and prophecies as the others. Religious people like the Pharisees and Sadducees were prejudiced against what God's word simply and literally says because of putting their confidence in man-made doctrine; hence, Jesus quoting from God's Law to so-called "obedient" Jews too. But really, whether Samaritan (pagan, half-jewish, ignorant of God's law) or an actual Jew (the people entrusted with His divine revelation; having God's word within reach), they had all deviated from what he said. And that needs to be corrected, we need to correct them, if we're truly following Jesus' example.
Not to mention how part of that love, as Paul elaborated, is rejoicing in the truth. Telling a person they're in sin, the truth, is an expression of love.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
And Jesus did it too.
John 4:16-18 (NIV)
16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”
17 “I have no husband,” she replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”
John 8:11 (NIV)
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
What is sin?
1 John 3:4 (NIV)
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Jesus' method is not to avoid God's word / avoid telling, or at least insinuating that, the person is violating the law and is in sin. His method is to make the person realize they're in sin/transgression of God's law, even make reference to what the Father said, without painting himself as high and mighty; he lacked the "I'm better than you", -attitude.
Quoting the bible is not the problem (in fact, not quoting scripture is a part of the problem plaguing Christianity today: thus the reason we have so many false converts ignorant of what their savior actually spoke and what he truly held in his heart—which is his Father's law—and which is what we should have in ours: that's how the bible describes the new covenant, law on our hearts and minds: Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:10).
With that, a word of warning: be careful not to quote the bible so carelessly. Jesus said, "my yoke is easy" in comparison to the heavy yoke the Pharisees were imposing on the people—one that placed heavy loads of self-imposed, man-made tradition—traditions which were never commanded by God—onto the people, while nullifying something written in the law of God itself (like the way they interpreted the fifth commandment so that in essence the commandment wouldn't be kept the way God intended [i.e. Matthew 15]).
I would argue that the problem with Christian people today is how they are in love with the "church", with church "leaders", church "tradition", traditional doctrine/man's interpretation, self-interpretation, instead of being in love with what Jesus literally taught, and what the Father literally taught. They say they love Jesus, they say they love the Father, but then they don't do what he says (or at least have a desire to do so despite stumbling), and insult/disrespect what his actual teaching is, either by ignoring what he says or giving it little value. It may be called "the law of Moses", but God spoke all of it (and wrote the ten commandments on the tablets of stone with his own finger); he spoke it to Moses, to the rest of the Israelites and to the mixed multitude that left with the Israelites out of Egypt (a.k.a. Non-Israelites/Gentiles like us too) and arguably God spoke these instructions and laws to Noah and Abraham too (which technically were Gentiles), who weren't even a part of the Mosaic covenant.
Luke 6:46 (KJV)
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
To Noah:
Genesis 7:2 (NIV)
2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,
Genesis 7:8-10 (NIV)
8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
To Abraham:
Genesis 26:5 (NIV)
5 because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”
To Moses, to the Israelites, and to the mixed multitude:
Exodus 31:18 (NIV)
18 When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.
Deuteronomy 10:4 (NIV)
4 The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.
Exodus 12:37-38 (NIV)
37 The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Sukkoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38 Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.
Moving along, there's no such thing as God blessing us with sin. Sin is the transgression of the law. Since when does our Heavenly Father, the Holy God of Israel, bless us for preferring disobedience and hating his character? When does he ever prefer that we not listen to his instructions? Or make light even of the least of his commandments?
Do not mistake "opportunities to prove where our loyalty lies" for "blessing". They're trials/tests: we will prove whether our ultimate loyalty is to our five senses, lusts for food, money, pleasure, this life/survival—or whether our loyalty is to him and his Word. And everyone proves their loyalty to the death. Some people cling on to sin even if it kills them. We have to hold on to God even if it kills us or brings us to the point of shedding blood. Just because God allows something to be brought into our presence, or allows something to exist in our presence, it doesn't mean we take a bite out of it—especially if God, prophets, Jesus and his apostles all said "no". When we choose contrary to his will, do not expect a blessing out of that, even if it does not manifest negatively in the immediate.
Deuteronomy 11:26-28 (NIV)
26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse— 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the Lord your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (NIV)
19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
Joshua 8:34 (NIV)
34 Afterward, Joshua read all the words of the law—the blessings and the curses—just as it is written in the Book of the Law.
And if that's not convincing enough, both the Psalms and the apostle James (Jesus' brother) say the same: we are blessed for obeying God's Law:
Psalm 94:12 (NIV)
12 Blessed is the one you discipline, Lord, the one you teach from your law;
James 1:25 (NIV)
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
Psalm 119:1 (NIV)
Psalm 119[a] א Aleph
1 Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord.
The Old Testament does not contradict the New Testament (or vice versa) when interpreted correctly.
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For the record, we're all born sinners, so being born gay is not much of an argument at all when the whole point of Christianity is to be born-again, given a new nature, contrary to the one you were born with. If God says something is sexually immoral in his sight, then it is sexually immoral. We should not try to excuse it. If it violates his law, it is sin. People, whether born gay or not, should not have sex with someone of the same sex if they love God more. They shouldn't lust after someone of the same sex either—neither with their eyes or their imagination. They should ask God to extinguish the unlawful lusts of their flesh. We cannot belong to Christ until we die to the law of Sin / our sinful nature, and become slaves to God, slaves to His law in our minds.
Romans 7:25 (NIV)
25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 7:25 Or in the flesh
Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Galatians 5:24 (NIV)
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:48 am
setsuna_PT
if the bible says love the sinner and hate the sin, if the bible says both in the old as in the new testament that homosexuality is a sin, why so many christians say that theres nothing wrong with it, it doesnt affect them, and things like that (that we're not supposed to "shove" our belife to other like this..but at the same time, not saying nothing, isnt this like denying Christ in front of other? is this really what christians do think in america? about unholy food like pig or shrimp was this abolish in the new testament? because i thought that the only thing we were suposed not to eat was blood, i am feeling a bit sad because of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMv8JKyaI9Y If a Christian isn't addressing Homosexuality as a sin there's something wrong there, they may just be a proffessed Christian that isn't really saved but they should definately speak up about it as being sin when presented with the oportunity, it isn't loving to just let someone go on sinning without at least giving them a fair warning first but use wisdom to know when to do such a thing if you've already gone over it with them before because repeating it over and over and over again to the same person just out of the blue may not be right but rather use wisdom and decernment to know when to address it, like say the first time you find out about it would be the right move, you should always try to address the issue as soon as you find out the person is ok with Homosexuality or is living in Homosexuality, it would be unloving to just leave them be like that but after you've already told them that it's sin and gone over it with them then use wisdom and decernment to know when else it should be brought up to them. You should try to fit the Gospel in there somewhere as well when speaking to them about it. A true believer should not hate the person living in Homosexuality or the person saying it's ok but they also shouldn't condone such a practice saying it's ok or not say anything about it, they shouldn't participate in this person's sin, they should hate the sin and have no part in it but they should of course love the person living in the sin. To not say anything about it I think would be like denying our saviour, especially when you condone such a practice. As for the rest of your questions, I don't really have an answer for them, so I'm sorry about that >.< but pray about them, pray that YHUH would show us the truth on that, it's something I'm curious about too, I've been wondering about those kinds of things as well. Though I think I lean twards that law actually having been abolished but I'm not 100% sure.
Speaking about laws and doctrines, I remain to be passive about it.
But, I wanna to share my viewpoint about it:
In Matthew 19:17 & John 12:50, it is better to keep the laws since it has a great reward. So is to say that in Psalms 19:7, describes how mankind achieves reformation to itself, gaining good morale and ethics.
Now, this is the crucial part: In Mathew 5:17-18, it mentions how these law were retained, and not abolished. But no worries, just like it is written on 1 John 5:3 and John 14:21, these laws weren't given as hard as we thought.
These section regards on what our denomination speaks of:
Who speak of these laws that we've observed? Exodus 24:12, Exodus 31:18 Is it necessary to obey these laws? Deuteronomy 6:2
If there are any changes of the laws, what would it be? Read Ephesians 2:15. In Galatians 2:16 and Galatians 3:11, what are these laws that cannot brought righteousness to a person? Hebrews 10: 1, 8 and John 7:22-23.
Contrary to the last reading, are there laws that can bring righteousness to a person? Romans 2:13, 1 John 2:4
Then lastly, what are the effects on the person who doesn't observed it? 1 John 3:4.
Please read these verses, as you can see it for yourselves.
Just as I've mentioned awhile ago, I remain to be passive. I have no right to make judgments.
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