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 Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:22 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:42 pm
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eek exclaim exclaim exclaim
I almost can't believe it. whee
Quote: “This announcement will surely excite prophecy watchers around the world,” he said. “Regardless of one’s eschatological leanings, every sincere student of the Word of God knows there are at least hints, if not clear declarations, of something happening just before the return of the Lord that involves altar sacrifices and the distinct possibility of a rebuilt temple on the Temple Mount.”
Myself included. Consider me excited.
Just like in Ezrah's day, YHWH will have the final political say.
Ezra 1:1-2 (NIV)
1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord
spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to
make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:
2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
“‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth
and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah.
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:07 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:10 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:05 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:13 am
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ChibiHigh I think I have my signs mixed up. Is the rebuilding of the temple the first major sign of the end times, or was that Israel becoming a nation?
I would agree that Israel becoming a nation is one of the first signs of the end times. No nation of Israel - no temple. A legitimate temple always has to be built in Israel and if I have grasped it correctly only in Jerusalem. Israel is as someone put it 'God's timepiece.'
"Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?
Shall the Earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children."
(Isaiah 66:8.)
Jesus on worship;
John 4:19-24
“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” |
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:45 am
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Garland-Green ChibiHigh I think I have my signs mixed up. Is the rebuilding of the temple the first major sign of the end times, or was that Israel becoming a nation? I would agree that Israel becoming a nation is one of the first signs of the end times. No nation of Israel - no temple. A legitimate temple always has to be built in Israel and if I have grasped it correctly only in Jerusalem. Israel is as someone put it 'God's timepiece.' "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the Earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children." (Isaiah 66:8.) Jesus on worship; John 4:19-24 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Ah, okay thank you. |
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:48 pm
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Wait, a stone altar...? I don't know what to make of that. neutral
My question is: is it a temporary altar until they build a bronze one...? Because when it comes to the temples (and the tabernacle) there's only two: one bronze, one gold.
YHWH commanded a wooden altar, overlaid with bronze, for burning animal sacrifices. The tabernacle in the desert, the first temple (Solomon built) in Jerusalem and the second temple (Ezra built) in Jerusalem, all three, had a wooden altar overlaid with bronze for burning animal and grain offerings. There was also a wooden altar overlaid with gold for offering fragrant incense (inside the temple, and the tabernacle, itself). Neither of them stone altars.
Tabernacle
Bronze Altar (for burning animal sacrifices)
Exodus 27:1-7 (NIV)
The Altar of Burnt Offering
27 “Build an altar of acacia wood, three cubits[a] high; it is to be square,
five cubits long and five cubits wide.[b] 2 Make a horn at each
of the four corners, so that the horns and the altar are of one piece, and
overlay the altar with bronze.3 Make all its utensils of bronze—its pots
to remove the ashes, and its shovels, sprinkling bowls, meat forks and
firepans. 4 Make a grating for it, a bronze network, and make a bronze
ring at each of the four corners of the network. 5 Put it under the ledge of the
altar so that it is halfway up the altar. 6 Make poles of acacia wood for the
altar and overlay them with bronze. 7 The poles are to be inserted into the
rings so they will be on two sides of the altar when it is carried.
Footnotes:
a. Exodus 27:1 That is, about 4 1/2 feet or about 1.4 meters
b. Exodus 27:1 That is, about 7 1/2 feet or about 2.3 meters long and wide
Gold Altar (for burning incense)
Exodus 30:1-7 (NIV)
The Altar of Incense
30 “Make an altar of acacia wood for burning incense. 2 It is to be
square, a cubit long and a cubit wide, and two cubits high[a]—its horns of
one piece with it. 3 Overlay the top and all the sides and the horns with
pure gold, and make a gold molding around it. 4 Make two gold rings
for the altar below the molding—two on each of the opposite sides—to hold
the poles used to carry it. 5 Make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them
with gold. 6 Put the altar in front of the curtain that shields the ark of the
covenant law—before the atonement cover that is over the tablets of the
covenant law—where I will meet with you.
7 “Aaron must burn fragrant incense on the altar every morning when he
tends the lamps.
Footnotes:
Exodus 30:2 That is, about 1 1/2 feet long and wide and 3 feet high or
about 45 centimeters long and wide and 90 centimeters high
Exodus 40:5-6 (NIV) (placement of the altars)
5 Place the gold altar of incense in front of the ark of
the covenant law and put the curtain at the entrance to the tabernacle.
6 “Place the altar of burnt offering in front of the
entrance to the tabernacle, the tent of meeting;
First Temple (built by Solomon)
Bronze Altar (for burning animal sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:64 (NIV)
64 On that same day the king consecrated the middle part of the courtyard in
front of the temple of the Lord, and there he offered burnt offerings, grain
offerings and the fat of the fellowship offerings, because the bronze altar
that stood before the Lord was too small to hold the burnt offerings, the grain
offerings and the fat of the fellowship offerings.
Golden Altar (for burning incense)
1 Kings 7:48 (NIV)
48 Solomon also made all the furnishings that were in the Lord’s temple:
the golden altar;
the golden table on which was the bread of the Presence;
Second Temple
Bronze Altar (for burning animal sacrifices)
Ezra 3:2-6 (NIV)
2 Then Joshua son of Jozadak and his fellow priests and Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel and his
associates began to build the altar of the God of Israel to sacrifice burnt offerings on it,
in accordance with what is written in the Law of Moses the man of God. 3 Despite their
fear of the peoples around them, they built the altar on its foundation and sacrificed burnt
offerings on it to the Lord, both the morning and evening sacrifices. 4 Then in accordance with
what is written, they celebrated the Festival of Tabernacles with the required number of burnt
offerings prescribed for each day. 5 After that, they presented the regular burnt offerings, the
New Moon sacrifices and the sacrifices for all the appointed sacred festivals of the Lord, as well
as those brought as freewill offerings to the Lord. 6 On the first day of the seventh month
they began to offer burnt offerings to the Lord, though the foundation of the Lord’s temple
had not yet been laid.
Mention of Incense
Nehemiah 13:4-5 (NIV)
4 Before this, Eliashib the priest had been put in charge of the storerooms of the house of our
God. He was closely associated with Tobiah, 5 and he had provided him with a large room
formerly used to store the grain offerings and incense and temple articles, and also the tithes of
grain, new wine and olive oil prescribed for the Levites, musicians and gatekeepers, as well as
the contributions for the priests.
The second temple passages don't specify gold/bronze altars, but knowing they did everything as "is written in the Law of Moses" suggests that the first altar they built was the bronze altar to sacrifice burnt offerings. That's the one that goes outside the temple. And if there is incense, then there is a golden altar too (once they got around to building the temple itself) because that was the instruction in the Law of Moses.
Stone altars are what were used before there was a designated place to offer sacrifices (ergo, "Adam, Cain, Noah, Abraham, and Jacob" building stone altars). Not even the tabernacle was around then in their generations—the tabernacle is what YHWH commanded Moses to build.
On the one hand, the temple described in Ezekiel's prophecy fails to mention all but one material (wood) that one of the altars is made out of. Doesn't say anything about bronze or gold. The following verses talk about an altar in front of the temple (thus outside of the temple):
Ezekiel 40:45-47 (NIV)
45 He said to me, “The room facing south is for the priests who guard the
temple, 46 and the room facing north is for the priests who guard the
altar. These are the sons of Zadok, who are the only Levites who may
draw near to the Lord to minister before him.”
47 Then he measured the court: It was square—a hundred cubits long and a
hundred cubits wide. And the altar was in front of the temple.
Since it's the altar in front of the temple (outside of the temple, instead of inside the temple), this would be the bronze one—based on precedent. But it doesn't say it's bronze :l Is this why they're making it out of stone? @_@
Other verses about the altars in (and outside of) the Third Temple:
Ezekiel 41:21-22 (NIV)
21 The main hall had a rectangular doorframe, and the one at the front of the
Most Holy Place was similar. 22 There was a wooden altar three
cubits[a] high and two cubits square[b]; its corners, its base[c] and its sides
were of wood. The man said to me, “This is the table that is before the Lord.”
Footnotes:
a. Ezekiel 41:22 That is, about 5 1/4 feet or about 1.5 meters
b. Ezekiel 41:22 Septuagint; Hebrew long
c. Ezekiel 41:22 Septuagint; Hebrew length
This one should be the gold altar (since it's inside the temple).
Chapter 42 doesn't mention an altar.
Chapter 43:
Ezekiel 43:13-22 (NIV)
The Great Altar Restored
13 “These are the measurements of the altar in long cubits,[a] that cubit
being a cubit and a handbreadth: Its gutter is a cubit deep and a cubit wide,
with a rim of one span[b] around the edge. And this is the
height of the altar: 14 From the gutter on the ground up to the lower ledge
that goes around the altar it is two cubits high, and the ledge is a cubit
wide.[c] From this lower ledge to the upper ledge that goes around the altar it
is four cubits high, and that ledge is also a cubit wide.[d] 15 Above that, the
altar hearth is four cubits high, and four horns project upward from the
hearth. 16 The altar hearth is square, twelve cubits[e] long and twelve cubits
wide. 17 The upper ledge also is square, fourteen cubits[f] long and fourteen
cubits wide. All around the altar is a gutter of one cubit with a rim of half a
cubit.[g] The steps of the altar face east.”
18 Then he said to me, “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
These will be the regulations for sacrificing burnt offerings and splashing
blood against the altar when it is built: 19 You are to give a young bull as a
sin offering[h] to the Levitical priests of the family of Zadok, who come near
to minister before me, declares the Sovereign Lord. 20 You are to take some
of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar and on the four corners of
the upper ledge and all around the rim, and so purify the altar and make
atonement for it. 21 You are to take the bull for the sin offering and burn it in
the designated part of the temple area outside the sanctuary.
22 “On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect for a sin
offering, and the altar is to be purified as it was purified with the bull.
Footnotes:
a. Ezekiel 43:13 That is, about 21 inches or about 53 centimeters; also in verses 14 and 17. The long cubit is the basic unit for linear measurement throughout Ezekiel 40–48.
b. Ezekiel 43:13 That is, about 11 inches or about 27 centimeters
c. Ezekiel 43:14 That is, about 3 1/2 feet high and 1 3/4 feet wide or about 105 centimeters high and 53 centimeters wide
d. Ezekiel 43:14 That is, about 7 feet high and 1 3/4 feet wide or about 2.1 meters high and 53 centimeters wide
e. Ezekiel 43:16 That is, about 21 feet or about 6.4 meters
f. Ezekiel 43:17 That is, about 25 feet or about 7.4 meters
g. Ezekiel 43:17 That is, about 11 inches or about 27 centimeters
h. Ezekiel 43:19 Or purification offering; also in verses 21, 22 and 25
Ezekiel 43:26-27 (NIV)
26 For seven days they are to make atonement for the altar and cleanse
it; thus they will dedicate it. 27 At the end of these days, from the
eighth day on, the priests are to present your burnt offerings and
fellowship offerings on the altar. Then I will accept you, declares the
Sovereign Lord.”
And since they're offering animals on this one, this is what I presume to be the bronze altar. I wonder what the justification is for making a stone altar with respect to a temple (the designated place in Jerusalem). Even the tabernacle had a bronze altar outside of the tent.
If the design that Moses was shown on the mountain is a copy of what's in heaven, then they shouldn't be choosing materials of "their own liking" like that. The temple in heaven has a gold altar (at the very least); John only described the gold altar in front of God in the Book of Revelation. Not sure what the bronze altar is a copy of.
Moses Shown a Pattern of the Heavenly Tabernacle
Exodus 25:40 (NIV)
40 See that you make them according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.
Hebrews 8:5 (NIV)
5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.
This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle:
“See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on
the mountain.”[a]
Footnotes:
a. Hebrews 8:5 Exodus 25:40
Gold Altar in Heaven
Revelation 8:3 (NIV)
3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He
was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the
golden altar in front of the throne.
Revelation 9:13 (NIV)
13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the
four horns of the golden altar that is before God.
But no mention of a bronze one. Hm. Based on the Tabernacle design, the first temple, and the second temple, chances are that YHWH expects a bronze one for the third temple as well. This stone altar is throwing me off.
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Reply
