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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:20 pm
I've come across a couple people who have often tried using the Bible against me by pointing out select parts of the Bible while ignoring the rest. As much as I'd love to claim to know the Bible front to back, I don't know it that well. Recently, I had a friend address me about a facebook article regarding traditional marriage. The article is full of unpopular verses, but also mentions verses that appear to get tangled with other verses when regarding rape and polygamy. Though the Bible states rape is a bad thing, in Deuteronomy 22:28-29, it sounds like the rapist is getting a pretty good deal so long as the woman isn't someone's wife already. Am I misunderstanding this part, or is there more to it? Because I know God wouldn't punish the woman with a lifetime with her rapist. Additionally, a depressed acquaintance of mine has used the first two chapters of Ecclesiastes as an example that everything is pointless, despite him being an Atheist. How do I convince him that everything isn't pointless? I've pointed out that this world is temporary, hence it doesn't hold much value in the long-run. However, he didn't seem convinced. Bible verses would be greatly appreciated so I can show where I'm getting my information from.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:00 pm
Honestly I would like some answers too. One thing I noticed about this article is that all the verses are from the Old Testament, before Christ came back. Rules and laws became very different once He came to earth.
This article is pretty sickening. Not only is the tone condescending-they go through all this trouble to legitimize gay marriage! I honestly should have seen that coming...
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:35 pm
Silver-Mask I've come across a couple people who have often tried using the Bible against me by pointing out select parts of the Bible while ignoring the rest. As much as I'd love to claim to know the Bible front to back, I don't know it that well. Recently, I had a friend address me about a facebook article regarding traditional marriage. The article is full of unpopular verses, but also mentions verses that appear to get tangled with other verses when regarding rape and polygamy. Though the Bible states rape is a bad thing, in Deuteronomy 22:28-29, it sounds like the rapist is getting a pretty good deal so long as the woman isn't someone's wife already. Am I misunderstanding this part, or is there more to it? Because I know God wouldn't punish the woman with a lifetime with her rapist. Additionally, a depressed acquaintance of mine has used the first two chapters of Ecclesiastes as an example that everything is pointless, despite him being an Atheist. How do I convince him that everything isn't pointless? I've pointed out that this world is temporary, hence it doesn't hold much value in the long-run. However, he didn't seem convinced. Bible verses would be greatly appreciated so I can show where I'm getting my information from.
I've come to find that the explanation provided by GotQuestions.org suffices without having to delve into the Hebrew (the father doesn't have to give permission):Quote: Question: "Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?"
Answer: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is often pointed to by atheists, skeptics, and other Bible attackers as evidence that the Bible is backwards, cruel, and misogynist, and therefore, not the Word of God. At first glance, this passage seems to command that a rape victim must marry her rapist. Is that the correct interpretation of the text, and if so, how is that not horribly unfair to the woman? This issue is actually addressed in two passages, both of which are below:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."
Together, these passages clearly state that if a man has sex with a virgin who is not betrothed (regardless of whether or not it was rape or consensual) he is obliged to marry her. He should have sought her father's permission first, negotiated a bride-price, and taken her as his wife. Because he did not, he is punished for this—he now must pay up (he can't opt out any more) and marry her (which could be a major punishment in itself if this was a foolish, spur-of-the-moment act and she really wasn't the right woman for him!).
Also note that "he may not divorce her all his days" – this initially doesn't seem significant but is actually a major punishment. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 (restated more clearly in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9) allowed for divorce, but only in the case of sexual immorality (the word "uncleanness" refers to this and was translated as such in the LXX). This man now may not divorce his wife even for this reason, but is obliged to continue to support her all his life whatever she does.
But her father is ultimately in authority over her, as her head, until he hands this authority over to her husband. If the man is unsuitable, the father can refuse to give his daughter to him. How many fathers would give their daughter to a rapist? Not many. So, in general, a rapist would actually have to pay a 50 silver shekel fine to her father, and not get a wife at all.
The answer to the question is in Exodus 22:17 - the woman does NOT have to marry a rapist, she must only do what her father says.
Note that throughout the Old Testament no rape victim is ever recorded as being forced to marry a rapist. However it is plausible that there could be circumstances in which a father would choose to have his daughter marry a rapist. In 2 Samuel 13, Amnon, a son of David, rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Tamar was not forced to marry Amnon. Interestingly, though, Tamar seemed to have wanted to marry Amnon after the rape (2 Samuel 13:13-16). Why would she desire such a thing? In that culture, virginity was highly prized. It would have been very difficult for a woman who was not a virgin, and especially a woman who had been raped, to find a man to marry her. It seems that Tamar would have rather married Amnon than live desolate and single the rest of her life, which is what happened to her (2 Samuel 13:20). So Deuteronomy 22:28-29 could be viewed as merciful to the woman, who, because of the rape, would be considered unmarriageable. In that culture, a woman without a husband would have a very difficult time providing for herself. Unmarried women often had no choice but to sell themselves into slavery or prostitution just to survive. This is why the passage leaves marriage to the discretion of the father, because every situation is different, and it is better to be flexible than have a blanket rule.
Also note that the penalty for having sex with an unbetrothed virgin is completely different from the penalty for sex with a married or betrothed woman. Sex with a married or betrothed woman is adultery and was to be punished by the death of both if consensual, or the death of the man if it was rape (Deuteronomy 22:22-27).
http://www.gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy-22-28-29-marry-rapist.html
Ecclesiastes 3:16-17 (NIV)
16 And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
17 I said to myself,
“God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 (NIV)
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
Romans 2:5-7 (NIV)
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s
wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God
“will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a]
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor
and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 2:6 Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12
Jeremiah 17:10 (NIV)
10 “I the Lord search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward each person according to their conduct,
according to what their deeds deserve.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 (NIV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things
done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Matthew 16:27 (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory
with his angels, and then he will reward each person according
to what they have done.
Ephesians 6:8 (NIV)
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for
whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
2 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the
living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom,
I give you this charge:
1 Peter 4:5 (NIV)
5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge
the living and the dead.
Acts 10:42 (NIV)
42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that
he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and
the dead.
Acts 17:31 (NIV)
31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice
by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to
everyone by raising him from the dead.”
Daniel 12:2 (NIV)
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake:
some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28-29 (NIV)
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are
in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have
done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is
evil will rise to be condemned.
Acts 24:14-15 (NIV)
14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a
follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything
that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves
have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and
the wicked.
And the resurrection—that's definitely something to look forward to. Everyone being raised to life, both the wicked and the righteous (though the resurrection of the wicked will not be as nice, lol, understatement. There will be weeping. There will be burning). There's a LOT to look forward to; life is not pointless. It's better than a movie.
I pray that your friend learns to love God, and find his joy in the Creator, not creation, so his joy is not dependent on being able to do things or upon being able to be with people, but upon knowing God, always being aware of him, and that he interacts with us every day. heart
Being depressed can be a good thing when it means you're not finding satisfaction in worldly things anymore. One step closer to finding God.
1 John 2:15 (NIV)
15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone
loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them.
Footnotes:
a. 1 John 2:15 Or world, the Father’s love
I remember I had an Ecclesiastes episode before even knowing what the bible said. I wanted something fulfilling and didn't know where to find it. God saw the desire and fished me to him in more ways than one. And then I had to burn down the idolatrous bridges I used to get to him (occult practices; TV shows that contradict his worldview [also full of occult practices], even though they had ignited a curiosity in the first place to find more about Jesus and who/what he was. The TV show was too bad of a testimony of God's truth to keep in my life. Also I could no longer be entertained by their lies; it became torment to watch). You really can't like the ways of the world and love God at the same time. It's impossible. So there is hope for your friend if he is falling "out of like / out of love" with the world and hating his life (as long as he chooses repentance from his wicked ways and receives Jesus and clings to him. Otherwise, this hating of his life will lead to death).
John 12:25-26 (NIV)
25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life
in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow
me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one
who serves me.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (NIV)
10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves
no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:37 pm
I knew these verses were being taken out of context! Thank you for helping me see just how they were being distorted. This is a huge relief to me. smile
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