Opinions On The Death Penalty

[Lesilrok]

Sorry I was gone so long but I was pretty busy in College and Work. I was wondering what are the opinions of those in this forum about the Death Penalty. I will post my 2 cents later after a I see a couple of posts but I have already made my mind and I agree with Penn And Teller's show on the topic on the Death Penalty.  

[PoeticVengeance]

shinobikun

Sorry I was gone so long but I was pretty busy in College and Work. I was wondering what are the opinions of those in this forum about the Death Penalty. I will post my 2 cents later after a I see a couple of posts but I have already made my mind and I agree with Penn And Teller's show on the topic on the Death Penalty.

It is completely worthless as a deterent, since a lot of killers think they can get away with it.

Its also so ridiculously expensive, might as well keep em in jail for life.

It actually is cheaper.  

[Redem]

Does it stop people killing? No.
Can we be completely sure we are killing a guilty person? Not usually.
Is it cheaper? No.



What, exactly, is the point?  

[Muaethia]

Death penalty is illegal here, and I want it to stay that way. I think that most people deserve a second chance- yes, even if they have killed someone. I think it's cruel the way people are locked up for months, years even knowing they are just waiting to die... and it's completely inhumane the way they kill them, either lethal injection or the electric chair (is that still used?)

Even in extreme cases, such as mass-murderers and people who have raped and killed numerous children, should not be killed- they obviously have something wrong with them mentally, and it would be a worse punishment to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives, solitary confinement high security, than to end it all for them, too.

Plus, some people want to die. They'll be matyers (sp?) to their religion, or something like that. We shouldn't give them that satisfaction.  

[DivideByZero14]

I am for the death penalty as a punishment of capital crimes, especially rape and murder. For the criminals that consciously plan and commit murders, they would definitely be deterred if they read that every single killer was killed themselves. For people who murder in the heat of the moment or while they aren't themselves, then they should be evaluated by a psychologist, and if the problem can be rectified, they should be treated. Otherwise, to the wood chipper. The same goes for rape, assault, and robbery.

For those who commit murder accidentally, and it wasn't because they were overly careless, that shouldn't be a crime. If some idiot runs out in front of your car, ignoring the crossing signal, and he gets run over, why should you worry about it?

Also, we should take the bodies, process them, and feed them to the people in jail. Hey, if they don't want to eat people, then they shouldn't have gotten themselves in jail!

Generally, I want a justice system that assigns punishment based on the motive, not the act. Whether you robbed because you were idle or because you were starving should make all the difference. If this were only possible, by having competent juries and honest criminals, we'd be a lot better off. But, as that is currently impossible, hang 'em.

Muaethia

Plus, some people want to die. They'll be martyrs to their religion, or something like that. We shouldn't give them that satisfaction.

If they want to die, they'll stab themselves with a spoon in prison, and their followers will still call them a martyr, because we drove them to it. Face it: if someone wants to die, there's little you can do to stop them.  

[Waffle Dem0n]

Could someone post actual evidence as to which one is more expensive? Lethal injection after being held for one or two years doesn't sound at all less expensive than 50+ years of food, clothes, shelter, etc.  

[caustic 0_0]

Waffle Dem0n

Could someone post actual evidence as to which one is more expensive? Lethal injection after being held for one or two years doesn't sound at all less expensive than 50+ years of food, clothes, shelter, etc.

This site has a lot of information-
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/
I'm tired so I'm not really replying at the moment, I just remembered finding that site for a government class project before. 3nodding  

[PickleBoy]

I ... Well... I agree with Dathu. There. I'm too tired to think of my own reply. gonk  

[Sanguvixen]

I support the death penalty. Why? If a person deprives another of a life, than they do not deserve to live. A murder deserves to die.

I don't see the fairness in letting them live. They didn't give the person they killed that same consideration and kindness when they snuffed out thier victims life, so why should society give it to them?

Death is a powerful deterrent. If people knew that all they would get is life in prison(food, sheltor and clothing! razz ) for killing a person, than I feel there would be more killings.

People kill, many times for the attention they will get from the media. That I hate, and I feel should change. The media should stop it with all this attention they give to those murderous whores.

In any case many crimes that are committed(robberies and such) end up leaving witnesses, because most criminals don't want to end up with the death penalty. I grant you there are a fair few that kill to eliminate witnesses, but on a whole most people will rather let people go than kill them, because of the Death Penalty.

Getting rid of the Death Penalty will create problems.

 

[FalseDiagnosis]

I think criminals and murderers should just be locked up in a concrete square, allowed very little food and water, allowed no time to roam the outdoors or anything. Just keep them isolated for ever, you know?

 

[Muaethia]

Sanguvixen

Getting rid of the Death Penalty will create problems.

And we have a higher (proportional) murder rate in Britain than you do in the states, huh? Because the death penalty is a deterrent, obviously rolleyes

I'm not saying the British justice system is perfect (far from it in some cases), but we don't seem to have major problems with our system of giving murderers life in prison.  

[Sanguvixen]

Muaethia

Sanguvixen

Getting rid of the Death Penalty will create problems.

And we have a higher (proportional) murder rate in Britain than you do in the states, huh? Because the death penalty is a deterrent, obviously rolleyes

I'm not saying the British justice system is perfect (far from it in some cases), but we don't seem to have major problems with our system of giving murderers life in prison.

Which country has a bigger landmass? Which has a larger population?

I think we do. There are too many people running around to cause problems. My country is less than perfect, but the criminals here tend to be some of the worse around with the exception of terrorists.

I live in a place where crime is normalacy. It happens all over the place, from one scale to another.

If someone takes my life I don't want that someone going to jail and living the rest of thier life there. I want them dead the same as I am since they found it in thier mind to prevent me from having the leisure of being alive.

I don't know the murder to murder ratio between those two areas(Britian and the US). The state where I live in has a Death Penalty. While we do have a lot of people going to jail for crimes other than murder, the amount of people being charged for murder is less than the amount of people being charged for other crimes. I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[Lesilrok]

I have to disagree with not only you miss sanguvixen but the rest that support any part of the death penalty

here is a list of quickie questions

Is it ever morally right to kill a human being?

Is it ever Ok to kill someone if you aren't at war or imediately threatend by them?

(for theists reading this)Is the biblical eye for an eye punishment for henious crimes cool with you?

Should we chop off the life of a hatchet man if you think the fear of death penalty can DETER crime?

Do you trust the government to kill only bad people?

Should we rub out the truly rotten if it saves tax money?

By saying all those pro-death arguements before you EVEN consider those satements YOU HAVE TO AGREE

that it is okay to kill a human being.

In the same situation of the murdered victim's family we can see that we might agree with the death penalty. Lou Reed once sang an eye for an eye is elemental..Sure vengenace is hot and immediate but law is cold and its slow and methodical so as a group we might act wiser than an individual would. Personal pain and (for theists) biblical tradition is still not enough reason to take the life of another human being.

The death Penalty is not only the state killing it involves physical and psychological terror and torture and it culminates the act of human extermination. Governments are exterminating people by gas, electrucution, or giving them lethal injection. BUT.... what does this say about the rest of us? to me it is something pretty dark and disgusting. Now I don't want these crazy lunatics running around the streets that is why we have jails for and they should stay there in wherein they belong.

It is our moral integrity which calls for the abolishment of the death penalty. In the 21st century, the death penalty takes a part of our humanity away. It is an immoral issue for us in this century. The desire to kill, the desire to want someone to kill, this is a barbaric instinct indeed that which we as human beings have and the more we control it, the better.

Governments should be in a different business other than killing people they should protecting society, but murdering people does not get us closer to protecting people it demeans everyone.

We all know that our justic systems is run by humans and as humans we err, we have problems, we have mistakes. prosecutial misconduct is something becoming more and more common,there are some prosecutors withholding evidence, there are police officers who falsify testiments in order to win.

For those of you who suggest Lethal Injection it should be pointed out that the goal of lethal injection isn't easier for the person being killed that the goal is to make it easier for the person to make the killing.

here are the chemicals involved for lethal injection

first they inject 5,000 miligrams sodium thiopental (it puts you to sleep for about 30 seconds)

next they inject you with 100 miligrams of pancuronium bromide (it paralyzes your lungs and diaprahm so you stop breathing)

Finally they inject you with potassium chloride (which induces cardiac arrest)

two minutes after the state declares you dead. it sounds so peaceful but that is simply perception.

a study published by the medical journal The Lancet examined data from autopsies performed from 49 executions from Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. doctors found that 43 of the executed had lower levels of the sleeping medication (thiopental) than that required of that for sugery . 21 of those had low enough concentration that they were most likely awake and aware of what was going on because if you don't get enough of the thiopental you stay awake and the pancuronium bromide stops you from moving but does not affect your awareness. THAT means that the 21 who were executed may have experienced suffocation and excruciating pain without anesthesia without the appearance of suffering the study of this topic also mention that this method fails to meet the standards of putting animals to sleep. This leaves me asking "What the F*** are we doing?"

Here is another interesting history tip that you may find suprising

The father of lethal injection was a man by the name of Dr. Karl Brandt. people might not know him but he was the personal physician of Adolph Hitler. Lethal Injection was meant for a killing practice and it was a Nazi Idea and a Nazi Practice and the fact that we use it today in America and call it Justice is Obscene and Outrageous.

For those who think deterrence is the reason for the arguement of the death penalty (which I think is complete BullS***)

Deterrence is the worst most, most fraudulent principle. the death penalty has no deterrence effect because murder is committed for three different reasons or motivations. First, passion. second, profit. and third, compulsion. If it's for profit, the people who do it for profit do it very rationally. They are always convinced that they will not be caught. (such as assassins, the mafia, or mercenaries) Second, Passion crimes can not be deterred. If you hate your husband or wife that much for example, that you might kill them. NO ONE, no punishment can deter you. (for example you come home and find your spouse with another man or woman -and don't invite you to join them wink - you just snap or simply flip out, this doesnt stop you from murdering you don't weigh risk or reward when you are angry that is a simple definition of flipping out) and the wrost is, of course crime by compulsion. If a sexual criminal kills a child for example. Unfortunately, these are the kinds of criminal, violent acts which cannot be deterred at all because it is a compulsion. ( pure evil mofos like charles manson, son of sam, john wayne gacy, and jeffery dahmer come to mind. all of them tried to hide their criminal acts this that certainly suggests that they were aware of the consequences of their acts but the fear of the system still did not stop them from commiting their acts.)

Deterrence does NOTHING. if deterrence were a real issue in america one would have to look no further than in the state of texas. because texas has the highest number of inmates executed and it is also the 2nd highest
of inmates on death row. you think that people in Texas would not commit murders but they still DO! maybe it might be the heat in texas that causes them to kill or maybe their own stupidity How would I know? but what I still do know is that they are talking about killing another human being.

There may be chances that there may be innocent people in Death Row and if you don't believe me research about a man named Alan Gell if you can find him search search for death penalty information center, or sho.com and click bulls*** and look at the death penalty episode.

The day is coming that we will be sure to know without a shadow of a doubt that we have executed an innocent person and on that day we will be all murderers.

here is something to think about logically about the death penalty

If you support the death penalty and only one single innocent person is killed and killing an innocent person is murder then you become murderers. So, you also deserved to be killed.

This is the paradox of the death penalty and you cannot avoid this paradox.

its blatanly hypocritical for the government on one hand to teach children to urge and respect for the culture of life from the time we are little through life and yet the government interceeds against some violent convicted felons and kills these people in the name of the law.

I dont believe in killing to make a point. an eye for an eye is the basest of human emotions and if people are dangerous keep them locked up longer if it's too expensive give them cheaper food.

YEAH DETERRENCE the idea that the death penalty keeps a criminal from having anymore influence on the world? the idea that once you kill someone no one will follow in footsteps?, the idea that all the ideas die with someone once you killed them? yeah deterrence JESUS CHRIST rolleyes  

[Sanguvixen]

What an odd little world you live in Shino.

Humans are just animals with more complex brains.

Is it ever morally right to kill human beings? Of course it is, at least in my mind.

Is it morally right to kill a killer.

Other than war is it ok to kill someone? Too kill a person who does no wrong, who doesn't kill an innocent person...that is unjustified. Thus than it is wrong.

Unfortunately sometimes those kind of people become the subject of the Death Penalty. That is unavoidable. Does that mean that we should eliminate it? I don't think so.

When a person deprives an innocent life, it becomes the responsibility of society to eliminate that person. In that case the Gov't.

The gov't might kill a few innocent people, but that does not mean it should eliminate the penalty. Death can be a deterrent. Death can also be a punishment. It is to end everything for one who has already ended life for another.

It is ok to kill when certain criterea are met.

So maybe the lethal injection is made by a Nazi. Your point? It is not as bad as the other things created.

It is considered ok to give a lethal dose to a suffering animal. I find it equally ok to give the same to a person so cold as to kill another of thier own kind, and innoncent member of thier own kind.

By killing the killers you protect society. You rid it of destructive filth that do not deserve to see one more day than that of thier victim.

Some killers felt pain after the injection is given? That is good. Let them feel physical pain before they die. Than perhaps there will be justice for the families who will feel the emotional pain that comes from that gap in thier heart, that gap in thier family.

The death penalty acts not just as a slight deterrence, but a proper punishment fit for the crime.

I have no sympathy for murders. I do not hold up to such delusions that murders are anything worth pitying.

Oh and your paradox doesn't exactly hold well either.

If a person supports a official who promises to lower taxes, and then the official once elected raises taxes....does that automatically mean that the person who supported them supported raising the taxes? No it doesn't.

In the same turn people who support the death penalty support it being used correctly to punish those who murder. If a innocent person ends up getting targeted, and dies for a crime they did not commit, that does not mean those who support the death penalty support that killing as well.

You might not believe in killing to make a point but I do.

 

[PickleBoy]

Sangu brought up something that really makes me sad. The whole killing innocent animals thing. v.v I have to say that if we can kill a dog for biting because it was trained that way, we can certainly kill a person for killing because they were f@&^í up by society that way. Poor wittle kitties and doggies... *sniffle*