About the arts.

[caustic 0_0]

Okay, I tried to post this once before but the browser crashed or whatever and I lost it. So here we go again.

I'm an art major, with sculpture and art history, as you may or may not know. I'm writing a paper for my english class and my topic is dealing with art education. I've kind of been thinking about these sorts of themes anyways but it's more in my mind now. (EDIT-> To be clear, this isn't actually about my paper topic or getting ideas or anything, finding sources for the paper just made me curious about seeing what other people my age were thinking about art.)

I just want your thoughts and discussions. What is art? What is it's role in education, or should it have a role? What makes 'good' art? What do you think of when you think of art? Do you attend any sort of art events? Do you know anyone who is actively involved in the 'art world'? What about the art market? What makes a picasso worth so much? Is western art fame only for white males? Does the government waste too much money on art as it is? Do you have any idea what the government spends on art related programs, or should it be involved in the first place? Does art matter? Does art have to be politically correct and religiously sensitive to be shown or supported? Do artists have any kind of cultural and moral duty? What is art in the twenty first century?

This topic is for anything and everything you can think of on the subject of art. You can go philosophical with it, personal, in the news, etc.
Part of the point is to see what is on people's mind with the subject in the first place.  

[Sanguvixen]

Hmmmm? Art?

Well to me Art is a vector for the Imagination. As you get older, and transition from childhood, to teenage years, and then into an adult, soceity progressively tries to crush and discourage having an imagination.

So to me...Art is important in the fact that it is allows people of all ages to use thier mind in a creative and imaginitive fashion that is acceptable to all cultures, races, and demographics.

 

[Niveous]

Do your own damn homework and stop trying to milk out our creative input! lol


Well, art is just taking the shapes and sounds, emotions and open ended wonder, the colors and lines we already see. And using pencil, brush, horn, canvas, chisel we pretend to be God...molding away at our own creations and vsions from the interactions of all over our world.

It is a testament to our existance.
Our impressions in this reality. Impressions of feeling, messages, ideals, and even the unknown. We seem to hope, through art.....to find a greater truth, to extract something intangible. True art makes you feel like there is a god sometimes....the awe yu feel looking up into the sisteen chapel, or the pyramids of egypt. We are admiring humans though, as if they were gods.


Yes, I am an artist. razz  

[Sanguvixen]

Niveous

Do your own damn homework and stop trying to milk out our creative input! lol


Well, art is just taking the shapes and sounds, emotions and open ended wonder, the colors and lines we already see. And using pencil, brush, horn, canvas, chisel we pretend to be God...molding away at our own creations and vsions from the interactions of all over our world.

It is a testament to our existance.
Our impressions in this reality. Impressions of feeling, messages, ideals, and even the unknown. We seem to hope, through art.....to find a greater truth, to extract something intangible. True art makes you feel like there is a god sometimes....the awe yu feel looking up into the sisteen chapel, or the pyramids of egypt. We are admiring humans though, as if they were gods.


Yes, I am an artist. razz

Anything that requires creativity, and imaginative manipulation of certain mediums...to me is Art.(I'd love to simplify that statement but right now I'll just be lazy and leave it.)

Some art comes in the form of clay, others paint, and sometimes even steel.

Me? I am also an artist, but my palette is made of words which I weave into stories. Writing...is an art form of it's own.

 

[caustic 0_0]

So you feel art requires an active manipulation of media on the artist's part? Some kind of physical act of creation that the artist takes part in?

@Niveous- You're not a scholarly source, you aren't citing any sources, and this isn't exactly the topic of the research paper, so I can't use you anyways. xP
 

[Tenth Speed Writer]

Sanguvixen

Writing...is an art form of it's own.

True... and a very enjoyable one at that.




Forming texts to will
Unveiling inner meanings
Life, at attention.  

[Sanguvixen]

c a u s t i c

So you feel art requires an active manipulation of media on the artist's part? Some kind of physical act of creation that the artist takes part in?

@Niveous- You're not a scholarly source, you aren't citing any sources, and this isn't exactly the topic of the research paper, so I can't use you anyways. xP

That is right. No matter which way you look at it, an artist is always manipulating something.

It might be paint. It might be clay. It might be paper. It might be pixels(when it comes to computer graphics).

It could be words. It could be ice. In fact...it could actually be sand.

An artist uses his or her talents to manipulate some medium in order to make thier craft/art.

That makes Art quite a broad term, actually.

A Writer, a Musician, and a Sculpter all share the fact that they are artists. At least in my eye. A writer manipulates words. A musician manipulates sound. A scuplter manipulates clay(usually) although that can be extended to both sand and ice.

 

[caustic 0_0]

Sanguvixen

c a u s t i c

So you feel art requires an active manipulation of media on the artist's part? Some kind of physical act of creation that the artist takes part in?

@Niveous- You're not a scholarly source, you aren't citing any sources, and this isn't exactly the topic of the research paper, so I can't use you anyways. xP

That is right. No matter which way you look at it, an artist is always manipulating something.

It might be paint. It might be clay. It might be paper. It might be pixels(when it comes to computer graphics).

It could be words. It could be ice. In fact...it could actually be sand.

An artist uses his or her talents to manipulate some medium in order to make thier craft/art.

That makes Art quite a broad term, actually.

A Writer, a Musician, and a Sculpter all share the fact that they are artists. At least in my eye. A writer manipulates words. A musician manipulates sound. A scuplter manipulates clay(usually) although that can be extended to both sand and ice.

xD
You're limiting what art can be. If, that is, you look at what's being manipulated in a strict sense. Sometimes it's a physical gesture, an action, or some times it's mostly intellectual.
What about performance art? What about Marcel Duchamp's readymades where the act that was important was his choice of the object? What about artists like... that guy whose name I can't remember.. who made plans but had his large metal sculptures completely constructed by other people? There's a lot of options.

Outside of middle school, sculpture rarely uses clay.
I think you would be surprised, Sangu, if you studied art xD Most people would be, I mean. I really was. In highschool you continue thinking in such a limited way. You never learn about art history or art criticism. Well, I started to some in my senior year, but before then and before we went to some of the more modern galleries and things, I really didn't have much of an idea of the scope of what people had done.  

[Sanguvixen]

Hmmmm....I never liked Art classes Caustic.

Maybe it was just that I had a bad batch of teachers.

Crafting class was ok, but Art Class...that sucked.

The way I look at it is that Art is a talent. It is not a skill. You cannot learn to be an artist. You must have the talent.

When ever you look around many art classes, all you seem to see is a group of adults trying to teach a set of skills to create an artist.

Art classes should hone talents, not teach skills to try to create talent. That is at least my opinion.

Over half of the people I ever met in a High-School art class had no talent at all. So they were being taught a base set of ideas of how to draw something, and then they pranced around as if they were a genious.

Those teachers seemed to praise the ability to mimic what you see infront of you on paper. How ******** brilliant. These people can draw the shape, texture, and consistancy of a glass or a block on a piece of paper...and suddenly they are amazing artists worthy of some museum. stare

On the other hand, you'd have people who had talent in those classes. They were creative, and they made some beautiful artwork. They could do the same thing as the other kids(draw what is infront of you), and better. They would create some of the most beautiful and vivid pieces of art you'd ever see. But...since it dealt with the realm of Abstract art....they were trampled on. They were discouraged to be creative, and forced to stick to the realm of Realism. Thier creativity was crushed. They came into those classes brilliant, and left them brain dead.

Not anyone can take the image of something they create in thier mind, and recreate it on paper. To do that requires talent.

I just don't like the idea of teaching people "How art should be done".

So I never was big on Art Classes, or even studying art.

 

[Niveous]

c a u s t i c

So you feel art requires an active manipulation of media on the artist's part? Some kind of physical act of creation that the artist takes part in?

@Niveous- You're not a scholarly source, you aren't citing any sources, and this isn't exactly the topic of the research paper, so I can't use you anyways. xP

Ahh heheh, this is gonna be fun to pick at. razz

I never said the word "media" and I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. I'm positive I never even mentioned a word close to media in fact.

Secondly, I am a scholoar, but no....I dont go to yale and conduct group experiements. But I'm 100% sure of this: I told you no one was doing your paper for you. You never even mentioned it as a research paper on top of that. Why would I even help you write a paper you not only 1) asked us not to help you in and 2) I made clear I wasn't taking part in in the very beginning.


Rather....

I did exactally as you asked. You wanted opinions and insights(not facts and cited sources.) And you know the old saying "careful what you wish for".

heheh razz  

[caustic 0_0]

o.o

The media part was to Sangu.

All I was replying to, after the '@ Niveous' part, was when you said "Do your own damn homework and stop trying to milk out our creative input! lol"
I really don't get what you're picking apart here. I wasn't being that serious in my reply.

I didn't mean your post wasn't a good one or that it wasn't what the thread topic asked for. I meant in reply to your homework comment that I couldn't use your post for my paper topic/requirements anyways.
Not really sure what you were going for in your comments about that because I don't know what you thought I meant o.o
 

[Niveous]

Well, that seems to make more sense.

I wasnt being serious myself, I just enjoy analyzing stuff.

Next time type, @Sango too

It was confusing a reply to say the least.

So, caustic...any artistic talents you tend to lean towards?  

[Muaethia]

{Long post, sorry}

I think that art covers a whole lot of things which other people might not see it as. It's a very broad term. For example, I think that the some of the best authors can be artists, in their writing (note: SOME, e.g. in my opinion Pullman is far superior in his style of writing to C.S Lewis, the former having a "way with words" far surpassing the style of the latter which is only interesting to read because of the imagaination put into the storyline, the style being crap) beause the way in which they write is so beautiful.

Likewise using words as a medium, short prose and poetry can be art forms. I wrote a short story myself a few weeks ago which I considered art; I chose each word carefully to have an effect on the audience and suit the direction I wanted the plot to take, but I didn't do it consiously- like Sangu said, it's more of a talent thing than a classroom-learnt skill. I study English Language as an A-level, and even my teacher told us that just by understanding the nature of the language and how it works will not make you a good author. It's like knowing what makes red paint red won't inspire you to create something wonderful with that red paint.

I'm pants at the usual types of 'art'- I can't draw, paint, model, craft, carve to save my life. However, that doesn't mean i'm not an artist in what I do- photography, simply because I have a passion for wanting to capture beautiful images and there is at least a little skill in being able to judge when the time is right, when the lighting is right, for each shot, even with an automatic camera. Is it a skill I was born with? Most likely not, seeing as when we evolved skills we were born with there were no such things as cameras. Have I studied photography books at length? Nope. So it's not an aquired skill, not a natural skill, what is it? Can't answer my own rhetorical question there, lol.

Art isn't just visual. I've heard music in my time which is so beautiful it can be called art, especially when played live, not having being recorded, and is by a little-known musician, especially someone I know. It's art the way a piano is played, it's art the way a ballet dancer moves gracefully through the space in which he or she is given, I even see theatre as an art form being an amatur actress myself.

Art, to me, is the expression of emotions and feeling in any given medium, which can profoundly affect others, depending on their unique interpretation of the art piece. That's the best definition I can give.  

[caustic 0_0]

Niveous

Well, that seems to make more sense.

I wasnt being serious myself, I just enjoy analyzing stuff.

Next time type, @Sango too

It was confusing a reply to say the least.

So, caustic...any artistic talents you tend to lean towards?

Yeah, I will try to remember the @ sangu part. xD I just started typing to her first, and then switched and replied to you in the same post.

I can do a little bit of everything nearly. I started out liking drawing and painting, so I worked at that a lot.
I like photography alot too, but I haven't done too much with that since highschool. I've been working on graphics on my own. Now I do some different kinds of things. More sculpture and mixed media type work. I'll try to get some images up one day. :0
 

[caustic 0_0]

Sanguvixen

Hmmmm....I never liked Art classes Caustic.

Maybe it was just that I had a bad batch of teachers.

Crafting class was ok, but Art Class...that sucked.

The way I look at it is that Art is a talent. It is not a skill. You cannot learn to be an artist. You must have the talent.

When ever you look around many art classes, all you seem to see is a group of adults trying to teach a set of skills to create an artist.

Art classes should hone talents, not teach skills to try to create talent. That is at least my opinion.

Over half of the people I ever met in a High-School art class had no talent at all. So they were being taught a base set of ideas of how to draw something, and then they pranced around as if they were a genious.

Those teachers seemed to praise the ability to mimic what you see infront of you on paper. How ******** brilliant. These people can draw the shape, texture, and consistancy of a glass or a block on a piece of paper...and suddenly they are amazing artists worthy of some museum. stare

On the other hand, you'd have people who had talent in those classes. They were creative, and they made some beautiful artwork. They could do the same thing as the other kids(draw what is infront of you), and better. They would create some of the most beautiful and vivid pieces of art you'd ever see. But...since it dealt with the realm of Abstract art....they were trampled on. They were discouraged to be creative, and forced to stick to the realm of Realism. Thier creativity was crushed. They came into those classes brilliant, and left them brain dead.

Not anyone can take the image of something they create in thier mind, and recreate it on paper. To do that requires talent.

I just don't like the idea of teaching people "How art should be done".

So I never was big on Art Classes, or even studying art.

I didn't mean study art as in an art class, you can't really 'study' it so to speak, I meant like art history or something just to see what's been done. I just thought it might interest you after your comment about sculpture being mainly clay xP

Even if you have talent in highschool art, once you get beyond that you see how little talent alone can matter. Art can go beyond the aesthetic and beyond your active role in saying 'oh now this would look so cool/pretty if I...', but those kinds of things and basic skills are what you build in highschool. And people continue with those unless challenged. So many people in college still came to a critique in a studio class and couldn't get past 'oh look, she made this kind of cool painting that if I was honest was s**t but it's more realistic and traditionally pretty than the other work..' And they take 'meaning' to be some half-assed obvious symbolism. But anyways. xD

What was popular in my highschool was work that was well done but pretty. It could be somewhat creative and not realistic, but usually still did have realistic elements, and it was attractive. That was it. It was pretty work and skilled in how it was made.
That started to change some in my 12th grade class, when it seemed like everybody was experimenting and broadening what they could do.
I do think there is an intellectual side and your decisions should be well made and not just based on aesthetics.

I think part is talent. Part is skill. Part is just wanting it. Part is intelligence. I don't know if there's a way to define what 'makes' an artist. From what I've seen, talent to most people can often amount to no more than starting off naturally good at 'skill.'

I'm kind of confused about your idea here. Is this what you mean by abstract- "the image of something they create in thier mind, and recreate it on paper" ?

-----

@ Muaethia's post- Art can be seen in any form. I'd agree there. Photography did go through it's phase of earning its own as an art form, but I think most across the board see it as art now. And there really is a ton that can be done with photography. :0