Fate, Free Will, or Inevitability?

[Dathu]

I recently got involved in a discussion about whether or not "fate" was plausible. One hand, people believe that they have a destiny or a purpose, if you will, that they and they alone were borne to perform. On the other hand, anarchists and some realists would argue that nothing is predictable, especially the human mind.

To me destiny sounds too mystical to be believable, and complete unpredictability sounds too close minded. I came to a stand point in which I can accept the idea of all things being predetermined. One scientist argued that from the very beginning of the universe "balls" were set in motion to an unalterable finally. Things like "choice, free will, and randomness" are actually points of view and not fact. One thinks one has made a choice, but in truth, due to their genes, upbringing, and events in their life, their decision was quite predictable and inevitable. People tend to feel that such predictability is impossible because it is beyond our and our technologies comprehension. But with a mind capable of handling and processing all the variables, such a prediction would be simple.

I, in all honesty, believe this idea to be very likely, but I don't think there is enough evidence to give it my full confidence. So...which do you think is more likely?

Destiny (we're all here for a purpose)

Inevitability (we're all one an unchangeable track)

Chaos! (BG*&*&%R*F8gg8o7r85FR*^o)  

[TofuDreamer]

I believe in unknown destiny. Just because you would know your destiny, would it mean it's true? I say unknown because maybe we will never know our destiny and it will always be questioned even if you try to change it.  

[Grand Moff Locket]

Many things are inevitable, but it's chaos with influence.  

[Mechanism]

Fate, it seems, is only possible with an all-powerful will directing events; a god. That's possible, but the universe doesn't seem directed in a single purpose like one might expect, if that were the case.

Free will doesn't seem plausible. From another thread in this forum:

I

If an event occurs as a result of "free will", then the event must be:
1. Intended/willed. Otherwise, it's not even someone's choice.
2. Variable/free. Otherwise, they didn't even have a choice.

Every event which is determined is not free. This is implied by the very notion of being "determined".
Every event which is not determined is not willed.
This is because a will is a controlling variable; a will dictates a specific effect. The will might not have that effect, and if it doesn't, that effect isn't willed. An event which is willed is, in a sense, determined by the will.
Every event is determined, or not determined.
One is the complement of the other.
Therefore, every event is not free or not willed.
This is equivilant to 'no event is free and willed', and by the definition set earlier, to 'no event is a result of "free will"'.

It's possible that all things are predetermined, but it's quite unclear as to how the universe might have come into existence, and some events seem quite random.

So, I say that it's likely that everything is caused with the exception of some random events.  

[The Amazing Mr. Tommyos!]

Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t.

Scarcastically:Fate exists. I've made love to fate. She's quite good.  

[[Satan]]

mrtommyos

Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t.

Scarcastically:Fate exists. I've made love to fate. She's quite good.

What's Fate's number? biggrin heart  

[Mechanism]

mrtommyos

Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t.

Come now sir, events are causally linked. If all was chaos, there would be no order whatsoever, but is not this very thread ordered?  

[Digital Leviathan]

Mechanism

mrtommyos

Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t.

Come now sir, events are causally linked. If all was chaos, there would be no order whatsoever, but is not this very thread ordered?

There is chaos. Though there is order, and rhythm to the chaos. A roulette wheel is not random. It's stopping position is determined by the force given when spinning it, and at which exact angle the ball is dropped. It's unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. That is how life is, unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. The ball wasn't "meant" to stop there, and it wasn't predetermined to be there, the person's actions led the ball to stop there. It was a non-random event, though a determined action, and stopped where it did because of human action.  

[Mechanism]

Digital Leviathan

There is chaos. Though there is order, and rhythm to the chaos. A roulette wheel is not random. It's stopping position is determined by the force given when spinning it, and at which exact angle the ball is dropped. It's unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. That is how life is, unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. The ball wasn't "meant" to stop there, and it wasn't predetermined to be there, the person's actions led the ball to stop there. It was a non-random event, though a determined action, and stopped where it did because of human action.

-He used the word "all".

-Why are you so certain? Have you some proof that events aren't pre-determined?  

[The Amazing Mr. Tommyos!]

Mechanism

mrtommyos

Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t.

Come now sir, events are causally linked. If all was chaos, there would be no order whatsoever, but is not this very thread ordered?

It is our perception and human nature to find patterns that creates "order".
Or that's just my really deep philosophy.  

[Mechanism]

mrtommyos

It is our perception and human nature to find patterns that creates "order".
Or that's just my really deep philosophy.

Maybe, but the ability to interpret is order in itself.

Actually, I read up on "chaos" last night, and there's 2 definitions.
The main one is "The opposite of order". But:
Chaos, scientifically speaking, is the attribute which a system has if it is impossible to make accurate long-term predictions; and basically, as long as there's any random events in the system, the system is "chaordic".

Consequently, I also read up on entropy. All this time I thought "entropy" was synonymous with chaos. Pff.  

[Northawke_rs]

Personally I think there are several paths you can walk (to put it old-fashioned), but your choices in life determine which paths. It's like walking around in a big city. There are several ways of going to your destination and you decide how. And sometimes you just decide to go somewhere else. All the paths still exist, however.  

[MarkTheWise]

Actually, I think the whole issue is a load of crap. Free will is a dumb concept. Things are obviously run by physical laws (and no, we haven't found them all yet), so I would class myself as a determinist. If "things" are run by physical laws, then so are we. The matter we are made from, as well as the matter we come into contact with, contributes to what ultimately happens to our matter.  

[Soviet778]

inevitablilty i believe. i think humans are just a certain way and things are just gonna fall in place because of it. although i do think humans are "free" to make choices i believe we are forced by nature to act a certain way. sorry if that doesn't make much sense, it's kinda hard for me to explain  

[To Escape Detection]

~x.X.x~

I personally believe in free will, but there is actually a branch of quantum physics that says all events are predetermined by an "observer." Not like a God, really, but like the ghost inside of the machine, except for the entire universe. We percieve things as this observer determines. It's really hard to explain. sweatdrop

You know how we see what our brain lets us? Everything that comes in through our senses is filtered through our brain, and only a very tiny percentage of what is actually out there is what we percieve. It can also modify our perception of the things that are actually there. You know how you'll see a word that isn't there sometimes, because your brain just automatically inserts it since it feels right? It's that sort of thing.

Matter and energy can be anywhere at once. In every infinitely small point of time, the matter or energy is everywhere at once, but our minds percieve it as in one specific place, which has been decided by the observer.

It also says that if we were brought up to think this way, and had the freedom of mind not to be restrained by the traditional beliefs set upon us, that the outside world affects us, and not the other way around, we'd be able to control our surroundings.

Another way to interpret that is:
Did Jesus really have the ability to walk on water?


Cool, eh? biggrin
Well I think so anyway. ninja