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What do you think? |
Fate: We are born with a purpose. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Inevitability: We are on an unchangale track. |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
Free Will: we make our our own destiny. |
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38% |
[ 7 ] |
CHAOS!: BG*&*&%R*F8gg8o7r85FR*^o |
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50% |
[ 9 ] |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:12 pm
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I recently got involved in a discussion about whether or not "fate" was plausible. One hand, people believe that they have a destiny or a purpose, if you will, that they and they alone were borne to perform. On the other hand, anarchists and some realists would argue that nothing is predictable, especially the human mind.
To me destiny sounds too mystical to be believable, and complete unpredictability sounds too close minded. I came to a stand point in which I can accept the idea of all things being predetermined. One scientist argued that from the very beginning of the universe "balls" were set in motion to an unalterable finally. Things like "choice, free will, and randomness" are actually points of view and not fact. One thinks one has made a choice, but in truth, due to their genes, upbringing, and events in their life, their decision was quite predictable and inevitable. People tend to feel that such predictability is impossible because it is beyond our and our technologies comprehension. But with a mind capable of handling and processing all the variables, such a prediction would be simple.
I, in all honesty, believe this idea to be very likely, but I don't think there is enough evidence to give it my full confidence. So...which do you think is more likely?
Destiny (we're all here for a purpose)
Inevitability (we're all one an unchangeable track)
Chaos! (BG*&*&%R*F8gg8o7r85FR*^o)
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:02 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:33 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:42 pm
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Fate, it seems, is only possible with an all-powerful will directing events; a god. That's possible, but the universe doesn't seem directed in a single purpose like one might expect, if that were the case.
Free will doesn't seem plausible. From another thread in this forum:
I If an event occurs as a result of "free will", then the event must be: 1. Intended/willed. Otherwise, it's not even someone's choice. 2. Variable/free. Otherwise, they didn't even have a choice.
Every event which is determined is not free. This is implied by the very notion of being "determined". Every event which is not determined is not willed. This is because a will is a controlling variable; a will dictates a specific effect. The will might not have that effect, and if it doesn't, that effect isn't willed. An event which is willed is, in a sense, determined by the will. Every event is determined, or not determined. One is the complement of the other. Therefore, every event is not free or not willed. This is equivilant to 'no event is free and willed', and by the definition set earlier, to 'no event is a result of "free will"'.
It's possible that all things are predetermined, but it's quite unclear as to how the universe might have come into existence, and some events seem quite random.
So, I say that it's likely that everything is caused with the exception of some random events.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:11 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:39 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:52 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:35 am
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Mechanism mrtommyos Realistically:Chaos. All is chaos. W00t. Come now sir, events are causally linked. If all was chaos, there would be no order whatsoever, but is not this very thread ordered?
There is chaos. Though there is order, and rhythm to the chaos. A roulette wheel is not random. It's stopping position is determined by the force given when spinning it, and at which exact angle the ball is dropped. It's unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. That is how life is, unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. The ball wasn't "meant" to stop there, and it wasn't predetermined to be there, the person's actions led the ball to stop there. It was a non-random event, though a determined action, and stopped where it did because of human action.
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:30 am
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Digital Leviathan There is chaos. Though there is order, and rhythm to the chaos. A roulette wheel is not random. It's stopping position is determined by the force given when spinning it, and at which exact angle the ball is dropped. It's unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. That is how life is, unpredictable, non-random, and chaotic. The ball wasn't "meant" to stop there, and it wasn't predetermined to be there, the person's actions led the ball to stop there. It was a non-random event, though a determined action, and stopped where it did because of human action.
-He used the word "all".
-Why are you so certain? Have you some proof that events aren't pre-determined?
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:25 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:17 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:34 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:34 pm
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:22 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:41 am
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~x.X.x~
I personally believe in free will, but there is actually a branch of quantum physics that says all events are predetermined by an "observer." Not like a God, really, but like the ghost inside of the machine, except for the entire universe. We percieve things as this observer determines. It's really hard to explain. sweatdrop
You know how we see what our brain lets us? Everything that comes in through our senses is filtered through our brain, and only a very tiny percentage of what is actually out there is what we percieve. It can also modify our perception of the things that are actually there. You know how you'll see a word that isn't there sometimes, because your brain just automatically inserts it since it feels right? It's that sort of thing.
Matter and energy can be anywhere at once. In every infinitely small point of time, the matter or energy is everywhere at once, but our minds percieve it as in one specific place, which has been decided by the observer.
It also says that if we were brought up to think this way, and had the freedom of mind not to be restrained by the traditional beliefs set upon us, that the outside world affects us, and not the other way around, we'd be able to control our surroundings.
Another way to interpret that is: Did Jesus really have the ability to walk on water?
Cool, eh? biggrin Well I think so anyway. ninja
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