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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:37 pm
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As I've probably talked about before, this past year, as an experiment of sorts, I decided to attend a very well known, very much Christian, private all-ages school in my city.
I'm looking back now on this year.
The big things I've noticed, are that the teachers are mostly the sort of folks that society could use, the students are split between the intellectual, thinking few and those who are little better than jocks and clique girls with religion to justify their ignorance and arrogance, and that there is little difference between Christian youth and the standard agnostic/minority religious youth at any other place.
It's also been a great insight into Christian theology, study of the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ as a philosopher, and if nothing else, coexistence in an environment that would otherwise not seem so welcoming.
There's been good and bad times, but nothing that isn't a part of teen culture in the first place. There were a handful of people who were very welcoming to me, and now, most of them don't even seem to realize my being atheist as anything significant when it isn't brought up. Once, though, I recall one fellow I've become friends with joking that "at least [He's] not a Scientologist, right?" A few individuals were a bit less open-hearted, but as I said, nothing more than could be expected at any place.
The experiences I've had with the teachers this year have been quite memorable, as well.
My Human Anatomy teacher, Mrs. Herndon, gave me a gift at the end of our last final exam. It was a teen study bible; its sentiment was very clear. Earlier this year, she had held me after class, and spoke with me about my place on religion. She took my hand and asked me to pray with her. I bowed and did so. She almost cried when she said goodbye to our class today. It was really touching. She said we had been her favorites since she came to this school.
I've had quite the conversations with my history teacher and scholar bowl coach, Billy Skelton. (We just call him Mister Billy out of class. Heh.) It's pretty interesting what points you can reach when you try to find the balance between left and right wing political theory. He also did quite a bit to teach me the value of keeping one's notebook organized, if only for the occasional two-hundred point surprise homework quiz.
One teacher I've become quite taken with is the Spanish and Fine Arts teacher, Mrs. Kay Sox. She's the mother of one of my... less favorable classmates, though you could hardly tell it by knowing her. She only has one son in this grade, but she really does seem like a mother figure to a lot of us. (Momma Sox... heh.) She's maybe one of the sweetest women that I've ever met, even if she does make us remember Bible verses en español. (Todo lo podemos en criste, ellos dicen.)
There's the less favored teachers, though. Particularly, my English class with a woman by the name of Kelly Sputh. She's an amateur teacher, and it's quite obvious. She's marked me off on papers and writing assignments for disagreeing with opinion and historical fact, asked specific answers for countless vague questions, and yet maintained the nerve to issue demerits to anyone who would dare question her authority. (Actually, she made quite the antagonist for a short story I wrote a while back.) It's easy to tell though just where she stands on her religion. She's a born-again at twenty something, and I could say without an ounce of pride in my voice that I know her scriptures better than she does. Her position is shaky, and I've managed to offend her at several turns simply by stating a contradicting opinion. It's a nigh-miracle I haven't received a demerit from her for that.
One of the almost-weekly events for this year has been the Wednesday chapel meeting. Usually our principal and headmaster, Dr. Carden, will bring in a speaker from outside of the school. At times, there are positive messages against drugs and 'junk teen reasoning', but then there are other times when I couldn't disagree more. During one session I'm particularly thankful that I missed, he actually had a local channel-three televangelist visit who attempted to prove atheism impossible. I say I'm thankful, because I know well the limits of my own temper on these matters.
Dan Carden himself, though, is truly an amazing man. He's a grandfather figure to the students of the school, in a way, and wise in a sort of way that could only come with age, fortune, and diligence. Even though some of his positions on things such as homosexuality and evolution are a bit misguided due to his upbringing, I have quite a great deal of respect and admiration for him.
I believe I'll be returning next year.
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:51 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:24 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:37 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:49 pm
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AnonymouZ evil stressed Weak. Why don't you just admit that if the god theory was more favored by science you'd be the first one to come down on us and talk about how wonderful jesus ******** christ is? I mean... <********>!, getting down on your knees and "pray" to the air?? What's more... KNOWING THAT THERE'S NOTHING BUT AIR, AND STILL "PRAY" TO IT? * Why don't you just admit at being a scorned christian, instead of an agnostic and/or atheist? Hell, i may be wrong about the christian label, but i'm pretty ******** sure that you must have a made up GOD that makes up for the fact that he doesn't ******** answer your "******** damnit!! *storms off and punches the ******** wall to cool off.* *it's actually the fact of getting down on your knees TO pray that bothers me the most... and yes, this is an edit.
Sir, you're out of line. No one has any right to insult others beliefs, Atheists included. Once we stoop to other's levels by insulting their beliefs as they do ours, we have lost.
Besides, the OP has never admitted to converting to the Christian faith (not that there's anything wrong with that). He is merely recounting tales of his pleasant experience there. Just because he enjoys Christians company does not mean he shares their ideals and doctrines (not that there's anything wrong with that, either). Therefore, your argument/rant is rendered null and void.
In addition, are you implying that the OP - and Christians by proxy - are inferior to us because of their beliefs? If so, sir, you have adopted the same bigoted agenda all of us hate!
Sir, I recommend you take a deep breath, collect yourself, calm down, and then return to either properly present your argument or apologize. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:02 pm
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No.
He knows there's reasons (******** hundreds of them) that show that god's are made up fables whose main purpose is and was to control the uneducated masses.
He KNOWS this and yet he dares to ******** KNEEL and "pray"?? I think it's HIM that should apologize for making US think that he is a real atheist/agnostic. I mean, no wonder his friends are ok with him, he looks and acts christian, he just doesn't agree that we were created from scratch!
And i have the ******** right to say it too, cuz when i've gone to church (i lost a bet to my brother a couple of months ago) i didn't find a ******** need to KNEEL! Even when i stood up like a sore thumb. Even when the priest looks at me and says "Now in show of respect we must kneel... blah blah". ******** THAT! You can get my respect standing up! Why the ******** respect gods/people/whatever kneeling down when you can do the same standing up? That, is called WEAKNESS!
On the other hand, if he was to say that he does believe in some sort of higher being (despite the evidence, or maybe BECAUSE of it,) THEN i could respect him and his opinions, or try to avoid him, whichever is easiest, but if you call yourself and atheist and kneel?? Get the ******** out of my face.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:23 pm
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AnonymouZ No. He knows there's reasons (******** hundreds of them) that show that god's are made up fables whose main purpose is and was to control the uneducated masses. He KNOWS this and yet he dares to ******** KNEEL and "pray"?? I think it's HIM that should apologize for making US think that he is a real atheist/agnostic. I mean, no wonder his friends are ok with him, he looks and acts christian, he just doesn't agree that we were created from scratch! And i have the ******** right to say it too, cuz when i've gone to church (i lost a bet to my brother a couple of months ago) i didn't find a ******** need to KNEEL! Even when i stood up like a sore thumb. Even when the priest looks at me and says "Now in show of respect we must kneel... blah blah". ******** THAT! You can get my respect standing up! Why the ******** respect gods/people/whatever kneeling down when you can do the same standing up? That, is called WEAKNESS! On the other hand, if he was to say that he does believe in some sort of higher being (despite the evidence, or maybe BECAUSE of it,) THEN i could respect him and his opinions, or try to avoid him, whichever is easiest, but if you call yourself and atheist and kneel?? Get the ******** out of my face.
It's probably because if he didn't, one of three things would happen.
1.) He would be ostracized and have little social life in a place where it really starts to grow (school).
2.) He would be reprimanded, suspended, and eventually expelled.
3.) Teachers would like him less, and he would recieve bad grades.
Just because you don't agree with the beliefs and customs a group practices doesn't mean you shouldn't respect them. After all, when in Rome, do as the Roman Catholics do. razz
Being that militant gives off a distinctly negative impression of atheism, and only serves to harm us. We oppose religion (and note that I use the term "oppose" lightly) through use of reason, and not through physical resistance. For example, last summer my stepcousin got married. Now my stepfather's familiy is Catholic, and most of the wedding ceremony involved prayer. Just because I didn't hold the beliefs my stepfather's family has doesn't mean I didn't find the service beautifully orated (the minister even tossed in a pretty good joke), and of course, I bowed my head when he led the congregation in prayer.
Basically, I'm saying there's a difference between honest belief and common courtesy. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:23 pm
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AnonymouZ No. He knows there's reasons (******** hundreds of them) that show that god's are made up fables whose main purpose is and was to control the uneducated masses. He KNOWS this and yet he dares to ******** KNEEL and "pray"?? I think it's HIM that should apologize for making US think that he is a real atheist/agnostic. I mean, no wonder his friends are ok with him, he looks and acts christian, he just doesn't agree that we were created from scratch! And i have the ******** right to say it too, cuz when i've gone to church (i lost a bet to my brother a couple of months ago) i didn't find a ******** need to KNEEL! Even when i stood up like a sore thumb. Even when the priest looks at me and says "Now in show of respect we must kneel... blah blah". ******** THAT! You can get my respect standing up! Why the ******** respect gods/people/whatever kneeling down when you can do the same standing up? That, is called WEAKNESS! On the other hand, if he was to say that he does believe in some sort of higher being (despite the evidence, or maybe BECAUSE of it,) THEN i could respect him and his opinions, or try to avoid him, whichever is easiest, but if you call yourself and atheist and kneel?? Get the ******** out of my face.
Sir, your chief mistake is assuming that for praying alongside his teacher, he was somehow compromised. He was not embracing any sort of doctrine, he was being polite, flexible, and multi-cultural.
He has also never attempted to put on a facade of Christianity. In fact, he put his grade on the line to express his opinions.
You do have the right to say whatever you want. I don't deny that. In fact, soldiers are risking their lives all around the world just to guarantee you and I the freedoms we take for granted. But to use them to deface another individual is a disgrace.
Further, I fail to see how debating the efficiency of forms of prayer relates to the topic at hand.
Finally, he does not declare himself to be religious because he is not. You go on to say, sir, that you would avoid him if he did. Sir, I believe you are the one that has been compromised. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:28 pm
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*reserved* the computer lab where i'm at closes at 10:30, ohhh but i'll be back! * twisted
Well, i'm back, and yeah, i have cooled off. However, to keep in line with the angst kind of "debate", i'll keep coloring my arguments with that pretty word: ******** then again, there isn't much to say to these two last arguments. And you guys know why?? Cuz the teacher very well knew (otherwise she wouldn't spend time telling him what is "his place on religion" ) that HE claimed to be an atheist.
The thing is, i cannot give respect if you cannot respect me first. And what happened there is that she still wanted him to pray, when she already knew he doesn't have a god to direct that prayer to! Why could she not RESPECT his beliefs then, uh? Why did she still have to ask him to do it? I'll tell you why, because unless you yourself are shaky on your "atheistic beliefs" (otherwise known as agnostic) you will pretty much bow down to whatever idealized god that people can come up with (people including yourself.)
And that's just another reason to be pissed (by my book anyway). But you know what? This is gonna be an interesting story to remember, cuz i made such a fuss about kneeling and s**t... and when i re-read that paragraph, i just realized he said he "BOWED" which i assume, now that i'm less hot-headed, it meant he just bowed his head. And here i was making such a big ******** deal about him kneeling... *pauses*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ohh man... THAT is called being a moron... redface
And by the way, how does getting pissed off at what would have been a NOT atheistic attitude compromise ME? There's no guiderules that say that when you're atheist you HAVE to be smart and tolerant. And i know this cuz i'm atheist and i happen to be NOT smart (average) and very intolerant of... stuff. Like reggaeton. Anywho, i'll come back to comment about the "consequences of not keeling down" at the chapel. Which go by the line of "HE was ******** experimenting! why not experiment being ATHEIST first, so that you can find smart ways to avoid all those "bad" consequences on the first place?!?!" But i'll go a bit more indepth when i come back. (like a line longer indepth anyway... cool )
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:42 am
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:11 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:21 pm
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Cirosan Tenth Speed Writer ...yech. I should have kept tabs on this thread. I'd really, REALLY like, to jump into this, but I think I'll let it stay dead. Muchas gracias a ustedes, Cirosan and Omicron. You're quite welcome. I hate to revive this thread against your wishes, so pardon me, but I have one question: What's your final decision about returning to the Academy? Not planning on criticizing your decision or anything, just curious as to what you ultimately chose.
I'm actually thinking of going back next year. It's not a bad school academically in most categories, and I've already made a few friends here, so I think I'll just stick for the next couple of years. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:34 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:13 pm
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