Discussion with the Chief Apostle in a studio in Johannesburg
This was not the first time that District Apostle Kitching used the studio to communicate certain issues concerning his district. "This is the first time that I am experiencing something like this," the Chief Apostle said at the beginning of the debate. "I am very happy about that and I am convinced that this is an opportunity not only for you but also for me to learn something and to get an idea of your feelings and opinions. And this strengthens the bond between us as children of God."
Following is an excerpt of the discussion.
Isaac: What is your vision for the Church five to ten years from today?
Chief Apostle Leber: Our main goal is to be ready for the return of Jesus Christ. That is why we don't pursue our own work but want God's work to be completed and therefore do everything that pleases God. Yet we still have to think about the future and make some plans, always keeping in mind that it is the work of God. Let me mention three points in particular: 1. We have to sharpen the profile of our Church theologically. Today people are better educated than in the past and they want more detail, more than in the past. To answer questions today we have to delve into matter. Especially young people want to know more today. 2. We have to strive for lively and strong congregations. We have to think about what can be done to maintain such congregations. 3. We want o organise special events particularly for the youth. We are planning a European Youth Day in 2009 at which we expect some 30,000 youth. This is also something which will draw the general public, but we want this event to make our youth proud that they are New Apostolic. Maybe we can do something comparable in Africa.
Sibenzile: Is the New Apostolic Church the only way to God's kingdom?
Chief Apostle Leber: This question is often put to me. We cannot answer it with yes or no. We cannot maintain that we are the only ones and all the others are condemned or lost forever. That is not the case. God has so many ways in eternity to help souls and give them the chance to find their way in Christ. But right now he is preparing the bride of Christ, those who will be able to work at the side of the Lord in the thousand-year kingdom of peace.
District Apostle Barnes: I concur with what the Chief Apostle syas. A yes or no answer is really not an answer. Some would like to force us into a position where we say, "Yes, we are." And then they say, "You are exclusive. You are a sect. You are this, that, and the other." They want to classify us. But by giving an explanation you take the sting out of the question. Who are we to say: "You will reach the kingdom of God and you not?" At the end of the day, we really cannot say. That is all in God's hands. The Bible tells us about the criminal who hung on the cross and to whom Jesus said: "Today you will be with me in Paradise." It depends on His grace. God has shown us a way, a beautiful way which leads to Him. And along the way there are so many pleasures and so much enjoyment, which is why we want to be here.
Jaiken, by phone-in: How do we handle peer pressure? 'No' does not seem to suffice.
Chief Apostle Leber: I understand and appreciate the question and realise that there is some pressure and that you want to be accepted-especially when you are young. But is it wise to give in only to be accepted? I think in the long run this is the wrong way. Why not say no if you consider something inappropriate? If you have a firm conviction and stick to that and say: "That is the end of the line for me. I am not in on this," and then even explain a bit why you are saying no, then-and this is my personal experience-this position is always accepted. And when people realise that you have a firm conviction they respect this most of the times. Stick to your convictions and explain them. That is the better way for me.
District Apostle Barnes: Whatever the situation may be, try to look at it as a challenge, and use it as an opportunity to influence the group of which you are part of with your way of thinking, your way of living. Take it from a positive point of view. Don't forfeit your godly principles.
Eugene, by phone-in: Do you feel that we as a Church are doing enough to help the poor and hungry in the world and those effected by HIV/Aids?
Chief Apostle Leber: I think that you can never do enough, really. Who can say of himself that he does enough. We always have to examine ourselves, I think. But it is important that we do something, even if it is not much, and not just to complain and be dissatisfied with the situation. If everybody helps along there will be an effect. Of course as a Church our means are limited. There are many activities in numerous countries I know that many of our brothers and sisters do a lot to help along in certain areas and with certain projects. There is much to be done on the quiet of which we hear little or nothing about. Let me just point out an small example. Just recently there was a serious earthquake in Indonesia. Some brothers and sisters were affected and some even killed. Some of our churches were destroyed too. We started an aid project to help our members there and numerous other people and to reconstruct our churches. But that is not as simple as it sounds. The price of building material has gone up one hundred per cent. Now we have to find ways to get cheaper building material from outside. So this is a project which has really tried our patience and needs a lot of brain. What I mean to say is that there is a lot being done of which we hear little or nothing about.
District Apostle Ehrich: Our brothers and sisters want to help. I think much is being done. "Do what you can where you are." This is how I see it.
District Apostle Kitching: This afternoon the Chief Apostle and the Apostles visited Amazing Grace Children's Home. We look after approximately a hundred street children and orphans there. Thirty per cent are HIV/Aids infected. We have two homes-one in Johannesburg and one in Nelspruit-and these are sponsered 90 per cent by the Church. And there are many other similar projects in many other countries. That is one way of expressing our love for God and mankind. We don't brag about this.
Veronica, by phone-in: What are we doing to train our ministers in theology?
Chief Apostle Leber: We have done some things in the past, such as the courses in "Serving and Leading" and "Powerful Sermons". I know that much is being done locally. But I do concede that more can be done and we have to think about that. I also ask you to please not forget that almost all of our ministers have to go about their daily work. Sometimes there is not enough time to train them intensively. We have to find ways to improve that, but that is not so easy. I mentioned earlier that our aim is to sharpen the profile of the Church. For this new purpose a new catechism is being compiled right now. I can imagine that when this book is published it will promote the need to train our ministers and to have a deeper knowledge of things. But to write this book is a lengthy process.
District Apostle Kitching: There are things in the pipeline. Initiatives have been launched. It is part of our strategic plan to include this in some way or other. We presently have 275,000 ministers in the world and you can imagine that it is a slow process to train them all. But there are plans in place, and we hope that things will become better in the future.
Bianca: In the light of the broadened role women play in society, would it not be right to ordain women as ministers?
Chief Apostle Leber: There are many opportunities for young sisters to be active in the congregations. Maybe we can make the congregations more aware of this, put more visual focus on all they do and show how important it is. But reacting to pressure from society is not the way for us and to change things only because of that. We must rather ask ourselves whether it would be to the benefit of the Church if women were to be ordained into the ministry. I cannot say that things are going to remain the way they are forever. That we have no women as ministers is just, let me be quite frank about it, a matter of tradition. The Bible says that Jesus chose Apostles; they were all men. On principle there is no reason to reject women as ministers. But his has to be weighted for the benefit of the Church. We have to ask ourselves: Is it an advantage if we go this way?
Itumeleng: What are your views on abortion?
Chief Apostle Leber: We see that from the standpoint of the Bible, and as such we as the Church want to protect life. Life begins at the point of conception, when the male sperm has fertilized the female edd cell. But I am realistic enough to know that there are excetional cases. If the unborn child is very sick, for instance, or if the life of the mother is endangered. All such individual cases fall within the personal responsibility of the person concerned. I advise sisters to go and speak to the soulcarers, the ministers so that they can weigh up and come to a conclusion as to what is best. But fundamentally the Church will always protect human life absolutely. I also know cases in which women aborted and regretted it very much afterwards. We must not forget this aspect too.
Emille: What is the Church's view on homosexuality?
Chief Apostle Leber: There are two aspects to this question. First of all we have to look what the will of God is and what the Scripture says. I think you will also come to the conclusion that the order as ordained by God is man and woman. There are also some scriptural texts in the New Testament by Apostle Paul in which he finds some harsh words against the practice of homosexuality. The other side of the story is, what can someone do who is homosexual? It is not his fault. As a Church and in the congregation we do not discriminate such members. We welcome them. We regard them as children of God. I have spoken with brothers and I know about the difficulties. My advice is to live according to the godly order and-as far as possible-abstain from practicing homosexuality. That is not easy. Everybody should examine themselves and handle the matter responsibly, also regarding this issue.
Alta: How do you see the future of the youth in the New Apostolic Church?
Chief Apostle Leber: I hope the youth know that they play a very important role in our Church. We need the youth. We often say they they are the future. Maybe we should make more of an endeavour to keep them in our Church, to make our Church attractive for young people. That is always on our mind. It is nice when our brothers and sisters are aware that we need the youth and realise how nice it is to have young people in a congregation. If a congregation has no young people you see what is missing. So we try to stress this feeling and we endeavour to organise events for young people. I have found that the Youth Days, for instance, are very popular. Many come from far to be able to participate in such an event. This is also why we started to think about a European Youth Day. Organising some highlights for the youth shows them they are not alone, they belong together, and how wonderful it is to be New Apostolic. So they have a specific role also in the future and we hope that the youth themselves feel that.
Brett: What motivates you in your work as Chief Apostle?
Chief Apostle Leber: I can summarise that: love for God and love for the brothers and sisters. That motivates me. And I mean it as I say it. Let me just add something concrete: When I see after a service-maybe when we say goodbye-that brothers and sisters are happy, when their eyes are sparkling, it makes me happy in turn. It motivates me and is the strength and force that urges me on.
Our Family; Volume 52, Number 10, October 2006
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